US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Hawkhunter]

The TA allows the opening and closing of domiciles, and there is nothing to stop the company from opening a West 330 domicile in a garden spot like, oh, say PHL. You are assuming West list means PHX, not necessarily so. West list means former AWA pilots, not their domicile. So as all you east posters are quick to point out, if PHX is so hurting and in need of downsizing, perhaps the company will just move 300 or so West pilots to PHL.

Dream on.

 

[Flippin43]

You're not really serious with that explanation, are you?

Federal law recognizes that USAPA became the CBA in place of ALPA.

Contracts were signed wherein the corporation of American West Airlines (I did it on purpose) was subsumed by some or other USAirways holding company. It then assumes responsbility for your contract.

Nice try though. I'd love to see what some law professor might say to a student who stood up in class and offered that explanation.

If USAPA goes away, there is no entity to assume the CBA. Hence, your contract, and mine, are meaningless. We are employees at will. It's our equivalent of the "nuclear option." Are we willing to do it? Quite possibly, IMHO.

Oh, and the company is NOT enjoined by the court, no matter how much you wish it were. I believe Wake dismissed the company from the suit on the first day, and they have simply been bystanders. The wording of the injunction is specifically directed at USAPA, and USAPA's negotiations with the company.

I've said it before. If the company was enjoined by Wakes decision, the Nicolau would have been in effect already. It's not.

NYC,

What exactly is it, you believe your "nuclear option" will do for you.

The Company signed the Trans Agreement committing it to the results of the Arbitration. While the CBA may go away, staying with their committmant to that process and using the Nicolau would be the surest way for them to avoid litigation aimed at them. And like you said you would have no recourse. Remember if usapa goes away that doesn't mean AOL goes as well.

How sure are you that dumping usapa or everyone else won't earn the east pilots a place on a list that resembles the staple job you wish for us.

F

 

[Hawkhunter]

First, they are not your seats, true you have temporarily misappropriated them from West pilots, particulary hard hit is our out of seniority furloughs, but consider them on loan, and we are coming to collect.

Second, the January PHX A320 schedules are out, and it appears that the company is somewhat overstaffed with reserves, wonder why that is?

First, there were no out of seniority furloughs. No matter how many times you say it doesnt make it true.

Second, we did not misappropriate them from the West. Your Idle threats mean nothing. Try to come and collect anytime you want. If your so overstaffed then maybe you should worry about another furlough. Sorry to tell you this but there is a lot of bad crap happening on the East. I guess thats okay though. You guys want it all. Vote no.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The TA allows the opening and closing of domiciles, and there is nothing to stop the company from opening a West 330 domicile in a garden spot like, oh, say PHL. You are assuming West list means PHX, not necessarily so. West list means former AWA pilots, not their domicile. So as all you east posters are quick to point out, if PHX is so hurting and in need of downsizing, perhaps the company will just move 300 or so West pilots to PHL.

Given that the delivery of widebody aircraft is soon coming to a screeching halt, which widebody aircraft will the west pilots fly? The ones already here are east metal, and the TA prohibits west pilots from operating them. The last of them will be here in the first quarter of 2010. Parker better hurry, because once they go into service in the east, there is no way west pilots will fly widebodies here until more deliveries occur.

Parker is certainly free to open a PHL base with ALL the west pilots, if he cares to. He better bring their airplanes along or they will certainly be very bored with nothing to fly.

Additionally, the TA only allows the west pilots two round trips a day to Europe from points east of the Mississippi, while the east pilots get one round trip to Hawaii from a point west of the Mississippi.

Therefore, it would be impractical to add a "west" PHL base for widebodies unless the flying was strictly domestic. Like that would ever happen at this carrier.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Does anyone know what the AWA A330 rates are?

 

[Waketurbulence]

Given that the delivery of widebody aircraft is soon coming to a screeching halt, which widebody aircraft will the west pilots fly? The ones already here are east metal, and the TA prohibits west pilots from operating them. The last of them will be here in the first quarter of 2010. Parker better hurry, because once they go into service in the east, there is no way west pilots will fly widebodies here until more deliveries occur.

Parker is certainly free to open a PHL base with ALL the west pilots, if he cares to. He better bring their airplanes along or they will certainly be very bored with nothing to fly.

Additionally, the TA only allows the west pilots two round trips a day to Europe from points east of the Mississippi, while the east pilots get one round trip to Hawaii from a point west of the Mississippi.

Therefore, it would be impractical to add a "west" PHL base for widebodies unless the flying was strictly domestic. Like that would ever happen at this carrier.

Not true! The only widebodies the West can't fly are the ones listed by "N" in the Transition Agreement. Any and all additional aircraft NOT listed can be placed by the company anywhere they want.

 

[Waketurbulence]

Does anyone know what the AWA A330 rates are?

They are the same as the east rates.

 

[cleardirect]

You're not really serious with that explanation, are you?

Federal law recognizes that USAPA became the CBA in place of ALPA.

Contracts were signed wherein the corporation of American West Airlines (I did it on purpose) was subsumed by some or other USAirways holding company. It then assumes responsbility for your contract.

Nice try though. I'd love to see what some law professor might say to a student who stood up in class and offered that explanation.

If USAPA goes away, there is no entity to assume the CBA. Hence, your contract, and mine, are meaningless. We are employees at will. It's our equivalent of the "nuclear option." Are we willing to do it? Quite possibly, IMHO.

Oh, and the company is NOT enjoined by the court, no matter how much you wish it were. I believe Wake dismissed the company from the suit on the first day, and they have simply been bystanders. The wording of the injunction is specifically directed at USAPA, and USAPA's negotiations with the company.

I've said it before. If the company was enjoined by Wakes decision, the Nicolau would have been in effect already. It's not.

Well our lawyer that beat your lawyer used the same argument so I guess it must be OK.

In the Matter of the Seniority Integration of
The Pilots of US Airways, Inc.
and
The Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc.

The Nicolau arbitration was between the PILOT of both sides. Has the Nicolau arbitration gone away. Nope, Are there any pilots of AWA anymore? Nope. If not who are the two parties?

The contract stays in place. If you truly believe that why would the east cut off your head and risk Parker imposing a contract at mesa rates and conditions? Is the Nicolau so bad you guys would rather work for commuter wages or quit than not have your perfect union that you all designed from the ground up with no one else to blame than yourselves? Willing to fly that WB for $50 per hour with no big comfy seat? Would you quit after dumping your baby?

It does not even make sense that the contracts go away.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Additionally, the TA only allows the west pilots two round trips a day to Europe from points east of the Mississippi, while the east pilots get one round trip to Hawaii from a point west of the Mississippi.

Well, not quite. Omitting a few words may support your argument but it doesn't change the TA.

The West pilots can fly only 2 of the European routes operated or announced at the time the TA was signed. How many new European routes have been announced/started since then? AMS, ATH, TLV off the top of my head - how many others? Those new routes, plus the 2 allowed by the TA, can be flown by West pilots. In other words, the West pilots can probably fly half the European routes.

Plus, of course, any S. America routes since they're not covered by the TA. Not with the 767's currently scheduled to fly those - they're covered by tail number - but with West 757's or new A330's not covered by tail number. How about PHL-ANC...those ex-ATA 757's aren't covered by tail number so West pilots could fly that route.

Jim

 

[OTTER574]

Well, not quite. Omitting a few words may support your argument but it doesn't change the TA.

The West pilots can fly only 2 of the European routes operated or announced at the time the TA was signed. How many new European routes have been announced/started since then? AMS, ATH, TLV off the top of my head - how many others? Those new routes, plus the 2 allowed by the TA, can be flown by West pilots. In other words, the West pilots can probably fly half the European routes.

Plus, of course, any S. America routes since they're not covered by the TA. Not with the 767's currently scheduled to fly those - they're covered by tail number - but with West 757's or new A330's not covered by tail number. How about PHL-ANC...those ex-ATA 757's aren't covered by tail number so West pilots could fly that route.

Jim

usapa/east management/company and their supporters take note. The damages trial is coming to a courtroom near you and very soon.

 

[nic4us]

First, there were no out of seniority furloughs. No matter how many times you say it doesnt make it true.

Second, we did not misappropriate them from the West. Your Idle threats mean nothing. Try to come and collect anytime you want. If your so overstaffed then maybe you should worry about another furlough. Sorry to tell you this but there is a lot of bad crap happening on the East. I guess thats okay though. You guys want it all. Vote no.

First, out of seniority furlough took place in the first round. The TA is very specific as to what seniority rights, not only recalled, but also new hire pilots would have. West pilots, working on the day of the merger, were shown the door prior to new hires, and that is out of seniority. Also, east furloughed pilots with very specific rights, who took recall to the West, were transfered back east to avoid their furloughs. So out of seniority furloughing happened, and it happened with the blessing and even desire of that job theft union the east has. Just because you remain ignorant and/or sympathetic to the fact does not mean it did not happen.

Here is something the BPR totally missed in the briefing prior to their latest lets delay as long as we can and tell the company we are not doing PBS contract reversal. PBS builds lines to certain parameters. If the company says give us an abundance of reserves, it merely spreads the flying over fewer lines and gives them the requested number of reserves. Apparently, there may have been such a company request, in anticipation of what?

"Bad crap" happening on the east? Really, say it ain't so, who's fault is that?

 

[End of USAPA]

usapa/east management/company and their supporters take note. The damages trial is coming to a courtroom near you and very soon.

Ooohhhhh............I am sooooooooooo scared



Look bud, you guys aren't getting your lottery ticket cashed any time soon. Mabe in oh say about ten years! LOL

LIke my name says -- you may get your wish and USAPA may not be around much longer! Megasnoop (Rcik) said it well enough for me to not even half to go into it. Jungle rules!!!!

You can kiss your arbitration lottery ticket goodby!!!

 

[nic4us]

Given that the delivery of widebody aircraft is soon coming to a screeching halt, which widebody aircraft will the west pilots fly? The ones already here are east metal, and the TA prohibits west pilots from operating them. The last of them will be here in the first quarter of 2010. Parker better hurry, because once they go into service in the east, there is no way west pilots will fly widebodies here until more deliveries occur.

Parker is certainly free to open a PHL base with ALL the west pilots, if he cares to. He better bring their airplanes along or they will certainly be very bored with nothing to fly.

Additionally, the TA only allows the west pilots two round trips a day to Europe from points east of the Mississippi, while the east pilots get one round trip to Hawaii from a point west of the Mississippi.

Therefore, it would be impractical to add a "west" PHL base for widebodies unless the flying was strictly domestic. Like that would ever happen at this carrier.

I know that in reality, all else being equal, it would be impractical for the company to move flying around. However, the original premise was if the east gets their pay restored. Then all else is not equal. The company is sufficiently perturbed by the "snap back" arguement, the delay negotiations, the "fire section 29 offenders", "we need to look at getting new management", the "our president does not speak to your vice-president, have your boss call me back", USA Today add taking, "you are only furloughing as a negotiating tactic","we will have the DOJ look into LGA transaction", "you can't close BOS, John Kerry says so", and all the other usapa complete BS, that they just might decide you are no longer worth dealing with, and throw the West a bone, just to piss usapa off.

 

[luvthe9]

The agents in ORD were saying Parker bought a big house in the Chicago area and is moving there after his divorce, any truth to this?

 

[nic4us]

Look bud, you guys aren't getting your lottery ticket cashed any time soon.

You can kiss your arbitration lottery ticket goodby!!!

By "lottery ticket cashed", do you mean get our jobs some east usapa supporter stole restored?