US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/13- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[HPDriver]

Hi Snooper.

I believe that Cleary lacks the intestinal fortitude to do such a thing. Get "Kirby", or the company's better revised offer, add Nicolau and then negotiate the remained and put it to a vote. I would just hope the NC actually tries for the best it can get (rather than tank it) so the pilot's would have a meaningful decision when they would vote.

I don't think Cleary will be around much longer. His time is rapidly coming to an end. I read that Dave has filed formal charges against Mike and Tracy.

Looks like the same show, just a different circus.

Too bad, Mike was doing so much to help our cause.

 

[OTTER574]

Hate this seems to be a favorite phrase of late... A little preoccupied maybe? It's okay man... LOL!!!

And where is that seham request for a 9th circuit "stay?" Never ever coming because NO MERIT from clueless/corrupt/sleaze lee seham.

 

[Phoenix]

... If they [damages] haven't occurred, then then a TA would prevent them from beginning.

If you are going 45 mph in a 55 zone, you should bring the car to a complete stop so you won't get a ticket for speeding. Nine out of ten cops agree. Trooper Wake is the one exception.

 

[Metroyet]

If you are going 45 mph in a 55 zone, you should bring the car to a complete stop so you won't get a ticket for speeding. Nine out of ten cops agree. Trooper Wake is the one exception.

C'mon. You guys can play as stupid as you like, unfortunately for you, The Powers That Be, see thru you like a cheap single pane window. The 9th aren't as stupid as you hope either. Nobody is...(well, maybe Bradford since he was the first one duped)

 

[ClueByFour]

Otter,

Premature Adjudication! You guys have a little ripeness issue.

Hate

You guys are going to end up in a dictionary some day, under the heading of "epic fail."

If the 9th remands on the ripeness issue, it simply means that USAPA will subsequently be DFR'd. It does not and will not change the inevitable fact that in order to see any contract but LOA93, the East will get Nicolau. It is what it is. The only question is when.

The MDA thing means nothing. Nicolau retains jurisdiction, yeah? Ballgame.

There are two avenues available to the East. The first, not ratifying a contract, has always been available. It was available under ALPA. The second is the LOA 93 arbitration. If that fails, your choice is Nicolau. The only question is when. That the USAPA morons pissed away millions of dollars in your money only to arrive at the same place that they were under ALPA is where the epic fail part comes in.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

HPearly,

We love Wake.........I told you before he is a wonderful man.

Hate

Nothing but empty opinions from the uninformed about Wake. Pathetic.


All the east does is attack Wake and Nicolau, but no substance, what a surprise...

 

[luvn737s]

Otter,

Just like Graber said............when did the harm occur? What did they do?........They put out a memo!

Hate

When they blatantly chose sides in the integration dispute. When that choice lead them to pursue litigation that would intentionally disrupt contract negotiations.

Why doesn't USAPA get a joint contract then open negotiations on a new one with a complete re-ordering of seniority based on date of hire? Because that would be a blatant DFR, just like they are trying to do now.

Hate- why does USAPA hate polling it's members as to what they want in a contract? Why does Cleary hate to come to the largest pilot base? What are they afraid of?

 

[cynic]

The MDA thing means nothing. Nicolau retains jurisdiction, yeah? Ballgame.

Cue the "Nicolau is an old man, we can out wait him..." posts in 3...2...1...

 

[EastUS]

But do you know the conversations that go on at home around the kitchen table? Nope.

How about that college tuition that's coming due? Private schools? Piano lessons? Dance classes?

Wives have a greater influence at home and its there where the decisions are made - not on the flight line.

Well...at least it's clear who really runs the shop out west now.

Curiouser and curiouser though, the deeper one dives down the rabbit hole...

First; It was generally asserted that the east captains would/will immediately sell out for nic, with perhaps but a few additional nickels to be had. Next; It was the east FO's that were/are so desperate they'll do anything for any pay raise. Now?...It seems we must all look to the east wives to demand of their husbands that they vote in a contract that, as things stand, would likely produce huge fleet reductions and massive furloughs, thusly; "enhancing job security" out east tremendously.....Sheesh!...That's a fairly huge indictment of the presumed intelligence level of all east wives everywhere.

Hmmm...I can only wonder about the next notions to logically follow. We've exhausted the east cockpit crews, and now even their wives, as being clearly, key driving forces for widespread nic support...Perhaps the next evolution will have us dependant upon east people's dogs biting them if they don't vote for nic.....????

No matter; It all makes perfect sense now, and one must necessarily assume that a nic-inclusive contract will be ratified immediately......

 

[Bear96]

Bottom line. After all the smoke clears, you are going to discover one final thing. Seniority is NEGOTIATED. The AFA, Dispatchers, etc. went DOH. How did it happen? Negotiations..

Wrong.

At least with regard to AFA (don't know about the dispatchers), there were / will be no "negotiations." AFA's merger policy calls for DOH, so that integration is DOH. No negotiations needed.

While the AFA's policy calls for DOH integration, ALPA's doesn't. See the diff?

 

[Metroyet]

Well...at least it's clear who really runs the shop out west now.

Curiouser and curiouser though, the deeper one dives down the rabbit hole...

First; It was generally asserted that the east captains would/will immediately sell out for nic, with perhaps but a few additional nickels to be had. Next; It was the east FO's that were/are so desperate they'll do anything for any pay raise. Now?...It seems we must all look to the east wives to demand of their husbands that they vote in a contract that, as things stand, would likely produce huge fleet reductions and massive furloughs, thusly; "enhancing job security" out east tremendously.....Sheesh!...That's a fairly huge indictment of the presumed intelligence level of all east wives everywhere.

Hmmm...I can only wonder about the next notions to logically follow. We've exhausted the east cockpit crews, and now even their wives, as being clearly, key driving forces for widespread nic support...Perhaps the next evolution will have us dependant upon east people's dogs biting them if they don't vote for nic.....????

No matter; It all makes perfect sense now, and one must necessarily assume that a nic-inclusive contract will be ratified immediately......

If this most undemocratic, dictatorial, dysfunctional pseudo union could ever make the quantum leap forward to a TA and actually let members VOTE on something, we'd know where the chips lay. Until then it's a waste of a conversation to guess how thousands of individual families will vote on a contract.

 

[Hate2fly]

If this most undemocratic, dictatorial, dysfunctional pseudo union could ever make the quantum leap forward to a TA and actually let members VOTE on something, we'd know where the chips lay. Until then it's a waste of a conversation to guess how thousands of individual families will vote on a contract.

Metroyet,

This is the mountain the west must climb to get the east to vote yes on a contract with the Nicolau.

MONEY TREE!

Every east pilot has seat advancement with our east attrition.

I will work with easy numbers.


Present day pay gives every f/o an immediate $40 per hour raise when they upgrade. 737/319/320

That represents 35 to 40 thousand dollars per year........I won't even get into the widebody pay!

Start working the numbers and you will see why you will never get what you want.

Years remaining until retirement.

3 years to go = 105-120 thousand dollars
6 years to go = 210-240 thousand dollars
8 years to go = 280-320 thousand dollars
10 years to go=350-400 thousand dollars
12 years to go=420-480 thousand dollars
15 years to go=525-600 thousand dollars
20 years to go=700=800 thousand dollars

When you start to calculate the wide body pay into the numbers above it gets wild!

This is why you will never see the Nic.

Even USAPA's haters back east would be screwing themselves if they put the Nic in play.

Hate

 

[Metroyet]

Metroyet,

This is the mountain the west must climb to get the east to vote yes on a contract with the Nicolau.

MONEY TREE!

Every east pilot has seat advancement with our east attrition.

I will work with easy numbers.


Present day pay gives every f/o an immediate $40 per hour raise when they upgrade. 737/319/320

That represents 35 to 40 thousand dollars per year........I won't even get into the widebody pay!

Start working the numbers and you will see why you will never get what you want.

Years remaining until retirement.

3 years to go = 105-120 thousand dollars
6 years to go = 210-240 thousand dollars
8 years to go = 280-320 thousand dollars
10 years to go=350-400 thousand dollars
12 years to go=420-480 thousand dollars
15 years to go=525-600 thousand dollars
20 years to go=700=800 thousand dollars

When you start to calculate the wide body pay into the numbers above it gets wild!

This is why you will never see the Nic.

Even USAPA's haters back east would be screwing themselves if they put the Nic in play.

Hate

So you think that it's realistic to be living under LOA 93 until the year 2030? Bear in mind that Jet Blue E190 captains make more than your narrowbody captains now. Do some math concerning the time value of money and see how you fare. What's an LOA93 dollar going to be worth in 10...15...20 years? Inflation will eat 3% a year. You'd be better off managing a burger king. You do realize that maybe two dozen guys would be willing to move or commute to the East coast for a reserve left seat right? In the end. I think you'll find that what you fear most was never going to materialize in the first place. Nic isn't going to go away, it's not the West pilots fault that the East careers have sucked so unbelievably bad. This isn't a war, it's mass denial. As always, there will be a contract signed when the company wants one.

 

[twoturnin]

COMPANY has just got to be ECSTATIC over all this pilot contract turmoil----lol---bet PUG BARKER couldn't be any happier with all the goings on---BUT---I hear tell the FAA is not happy with two different contracts. PILOT group has to many EX-WIVES/boats/planes/BMW's etc etc to do one thing about the contract -----business as usual for the foreseeable future for PUG BARKER-- two

 

[N924PS]

Not really.

Much of the attrition comes from the middle of the East list. The age 55 or older F/O's are those retiring when that attrition kicks in (EAST US is a prime example.)

Take a look at the East Captain's demographic and you will find many of the most senior are still relatively young.

Obviously cash means nothing to the East pilots. Look how much each East pilots lost by dragging this out for so long and how much cash has been blown on Seham and other quixotic law suits.

And wait until the bill comes for the damages to the West pilots.

Unrecoverable monetary losses.