US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/13- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[malikie]

So for anyone working under a CBA, you must wish for management to honor these contracts, especially if an arbitrator rules upon the language. for your own benefit....
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So you expect the company to comply to an arbitrator's ruling but not your own group? What makes your group so special that you can ignore an arbitrator's ruling? Can the company fight the arbitrator's ruling iin court if they do not like the outcome?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Tiger,
I'm just taking Kirby on his word, parity plus 3%, I have not seen the additional 10% some speak of. The 75/76, and 330 are highest paying equipment types, no parity just 3%. Some think that a 18% increase group 2 east would be across the board for group 1, as things stand now thats not true. Thats all I'm saying.

Gotcha... For what it's worth I don't think the Kirby will even come close to passing. Nic or no Nic. Hopefully all this infighting will, at the very least, settle down soon and we can find enough unity to ensure a quality, comprehensive contract for everyone.

 

[luvn737s]

? All one needs to do is realize that someone with all of 3 months worked at AWA should properly be "senior" to others with 16+ years worked elsewhere......

No, all one has to do is realize that that the airline with which the person worked 16+ years and the airline with which the person worked 3 months no longer exist. There is one new entity which consists of both employees. The employee who was at the top of one list should be paired with the employee at the top of the other list, middles with middles and bottom with bottom.

Why should years at a former carrier matter at a new entity?

 

[snapthis]

So for anyone working under a CBA, you must wish for management to honor these contracts, especially if an arbitrator rules upon the language. for your own benefit....



So you expect the company to comply to an arbitrator's ruling but not your own group? What makes your group so special that you can ignore an arbitrator's ruling? Can the company fight the arbitrator's ruling iin court if they do not like the outcome?

That is because some people think it is OK to attempt to cheat a process if the outcome is different than expected. Thank God we have a justice system to hold parties accountable for not living up to their end of the bargain.

 

[cleardirect]

It all makes sense to me now. No need for any further debate. The new "gold stadard", as established by the tiny group of industry standard setting AWA folks, is both fully reasonable and quite clear. How could anyone ever think otherwise? All one needs to do is realize that someone with all of 3 months worked at AWA should properly be "senior" to others with 16+ years worked elsewhere......

As usual you misstate the facts and the situation.

The “tiny group of industry standard setting AWA folksâ€￾. We did not set the standard, the west pilots did not create the Nicolau list. That was a third party neutral agreed to by both parties and included two industry neutrals. One of which was selected by east pilots. The other recent arbitration was done by three experienced neutral arbitrators and they arrived at the same conclusion. So our seniority list was not created by AWA pilots. Did the east pilots have a chance to make your case for the “gold standardâ€￾ when creating this list? Can you same the same about the DOH list created by USAPA? Did usapa receive any input from AWA folks?

Are you also going to say the that delta pilots also established an industry standard? Their list is not the east version of gold standard either.

Time to redefine what you think is the “gold standardâ€￾, the courts are going to find that it is arbitration, not an outcome. Besides point to another airline or unionized company that had 17 year furloughs.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Come out of the International Crew Room more often. There's a big wide world out there on the other side of the radome.

Well, I am out of the "International Crew Room" and I dont hear what you hear. You must fly with the same guy every month. Try again.

 

[Black Swan]

No, YOU'RE dreaming.

While you exist in your "Wide Body World" with many senior pilots in what remains of the "517", there are plenty of pilots in that number flying the little 320 and even the 737. At a buck-twenty-five an hour.

Some of them supported USAPA from day one because they were mad at ALPA for the loss of the pension without a vote and wanted to believe that eliminating ALPA might just also eliminate the Nicolau Award.

If USAPA loses at the 9th Court, I can assure you, those pilots will believe they have supported the "Nicolau Cause" as much as humanly possible and want to move on to a new and better contract.

There exists a crack in the dike, and an unfavorable ruling in San Francisco will open the floodgates.

This is REALLY funny! I have not heard anyone on the east side willing to give in on the Nic. I believe most are ready to dig in and fight this one out to the end. Me included. There is no way this thing is going down like the west believes! Prepare for years of litigation, dragging out, and NO votes. It is the reality of a group that is NOT going to give up their seniority to a bunch of Mesa spawned whiners.

 

[Metroyet]

This is REALLY funny! I have not heard anyone on the east side willing to give in on the Nic. I believe most are ready to dig in and fight this one out to the end. Me included. There is no way this thing is going down like the west believes! Prepare for years of litigation, dragging out, and NO votes. It is the reality of a group that is NOT going to give up their seniority to a bunch of Mesa spawned whiners.

The East is going to approve the first contract that makes it's way to them. Nic. included. Mark my words.

 

[nycbusdriver]

No, all one has to do is realize that that the airline with which the person worked 16+ years and the airline with which the person worked 3 months no longer exist. There is one new entity which consists of both employees. The employee who was at the top of one list should be paired with the employee at the top of the other list, middles with middles and bottom with bottom.

Why should years at a former carrier matter at a new entity?

What's the name of the airline?

And that FAA operating certificate....is it still valid, and was it valid throughout the process? And the AWA operating certificate is where, i.e. which trash can?

 

[traderjake]

What's the name of the airline?

And that FAA operating certificate....is it still valid, and was it valid throughout the process? And the AWA operating certificate is where, i.e. which trash can?

How much is the USAirways that existed in 2004 worth?

Try selling your stock.

Who's CEO and management team is running the company and from what location?

 

[luvthe9]

This is REALLY funny! I have not heard anyone on the east side willing to give in on the Nic. I believe most are ready to dig in and fight this one out to the end. Me included. There is no way this thing is going down like the west believes! Prepare for years of litigation, dragging out, and NO votes. It is the reality of a group that is NOT going to give up their seniority to a bunch of Mesa spawned whiners.

Your right, but what do you expect from Mr. "my money is on Doug Parker" for everyone else it's a fight to the death!!!

 

[traderjake]

The new "gold stadard", as established by the tiny group of industry standard setting AWA folks, is both fully reasonable and quite clear.

No, it was established by USAirways during the Shuttle merger and confirmed again by the Delta Northwest merger.

 

[nic4us]

What's the name of the airline?

And that FAA operating certificate....is it still valid, and was it valid throughout the process? And the AWA operating certificate is where, i.e. which trash can?

Do you mean the name de jour?

No pilot on the planet worked at US Airways prior to 1996 when the rebranding occured, therefore no pilot on our combined list could possibly have worked at US Airways for more than 9 years on the date of the merge. Are you suggesting all east pilots get a DOH in 1996 or later?

So the current name is US Airways, but when I go to their web site it is still USAirways/AmericaWest. I still see the same corporate office, with the same senior officers, in Tempe, when I land at Skyharbor, coincidentally the headquarters of US Airways. I then go and pick up my paycheck, which to this day says America West, at a location where I am still refered to as an America West pilot by officials in our corporate structure. You see America West bought the name and the operating certificate when it aquired the airline. Wanted that star alliance, name recognition, etc...so they kept the name. Perhaps you can keep that in perspective, the next time you answere ATC with the Cactus callsign.

BTW, I doubt the America West operating certificate is in a trash can. More likely a file drawer somewhere.

 

[nic4us]

No, it was established by USAirways during the Shuttle merger and confirmed again by the Delta Northwest merger.

I do not know which happened first. But George Nicolau, ( we are all familiar with him) integrated the Flying Tigers pilots (ALPA) with the FedEx pilots (non-union at the time) in a seniority integration arbitration, using a ratio and relative seniority in 1989.

 

[nic4us]

This is REALLY funny! I have not heard anyone on the east side willing to give in on the Nic. I believe most are ready to dig in and fight this one out to the end. Me included. There is no way this thing is going down like the west believes! Prepare for years of litigation, dragging out, and NO votes. It is the reality of a group that is NOT going to give up their seniority to a bunch of Mesa spawned whiners.

What is really funny, is that anyone on the east thinks they still have a say in the matter.

Who or what, is a Mesa spawned whiner? and why would they want to take your juniority from you?