US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/13- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Flippin43]

NYC, it's the same old song (SOS) with them. They repeat the same factually challenged premise, then try to make a case for it. If we don't reply, they say we're worried. If we do reply, they say we're worried. Just like clear's totally wrong premise. Then he tries to make the case for Kirby+NIC.



IF we were dealing with the best parts of both contracts. IF the TA's 322 range a/c floor remained, instead of the Kirby's 250. IF PBS could be revised to guarantee blocks to block holders. IF line max remained the same. A lot of "IFs."

NYC, no matter how many times we post, Clear and the Gang won't get it. They won't even debate it. They just repeat the SOS, then try to justify it. What do they think? We haven't been down the ALPA carrot/stick road before? Few of our our wide-boy COs will never desert those they fly with. The rest of us know that Kirby+NIC amounts to about 1,000 furloughs, equipment downgrades, seat downgrades, block to reserve downgrades, furloughs, all disproportionately falling on East pilots. The votes aren't there. What good is a $20K payraise for an FO who gets furloughed? What good is a $30K payraise for a CO who gets downgraded, forced to reserve. But I repeat myself. Sometimes I got to wonder why.

Since they refuse to address this, I'll just ask it rhetorically. With West having less than 1/4 of the voting members, where do they get the votes to pass a Kirby+NIC?

767,

I wouldn't be so sure. Of the WB Capts and some NB Capts I talk to, they want more money now. Every one of them. Your results may vary!

The truth of it is, you know I'm right. It's always been that way over there.


Flip

 

[cubfan]

767,

I wouldn't be so sure. Of the WB Capts and some NB Capts I talk to, they want more money now. Every one of them. Your results may vary!

The truth of it is, you know I'm right. It's always been that way over there.


Flip

make sure they realize Kirby gets them a wopping 3%. Also make sure they understand that as it is now that would put 400+ on the street. Tell them to go to a recurrent class in CLT and let their feelings known, they'd get run out of town. :down:

 

[Tiger 1050]

make sure they realize Kirby gets them a wopping 3%. Also make sure they understand that as it is now that would put 400+ on the street. Tell them to go to a recurrent class in CLT and let their feelings known, they'd get run out of town. :down:

One little fact I'd like to point out. What the East pilots would receive with the Kirby proposal is far in excess of 3%. The west pay rates would see a 3% increase.

 

[cleardirect]

make sure they realize Kirby gets them a wopping 3%. Also make sure they understand that as it is now that would put 400+ on the street. Tell them to go to a recurrent class in CLT and let their feelings known, they'd get run out of town. :down:

What upper management type told you that 400 would hit the street? Could it be just crew room gossip designed to hold support for the angry F/O? What evidence or proof do you or anyone have that airplanes would go away or anyone furloughed.

Yes it is a 3% raise for the west. An 18% for the east. During the trial under oath it was testified to that the company was willing to go another 8-10%. Now are you saying that the usapa NAC is so incompetent that they are unable to even get that? that they are unable to negotiate anything other than what the company is willing to offer?

So I see how it is. Any dissenting opinion is run out of town. Oh for shame if the east pilots heard something that does not comply with the fantasy.

These are not feeling these are facts. DOH will not ever be in any contract proposal, the Kirby would probably not pass on the west, it is usapa's job to get something more than the Kirby. If they are unable to deliver anything more than the Kirby than they should be replaced with someone that can d the job. It is not a fact that 400 would be furloughed with a new contract. If the east can not handle or will not listen than it can just come as a surprise when it does.

 

[N924PS]

One little fact I'd like to point out. What the East pilots would receive with the Kirby proposal is far in excess of 3%. The west pay rates would see a 3% increase.

That may be true, but the current West rate plus 3% is selling yourself short.

While it is unlikely the LOA 84 snapback rates will come to fruition and getting compensated like Southwest seems remote, you can do better than the Kirby proposal.

Probably a moot point as the East seems happy to slog on under LOA 93 no matter what, and the company is not motivated to cut a deal that might actually pass. Even with the Nic.

You might find this hard to believe, but the employees of USAirways East feel that their sacrifices in 2 Bankruptcies need to be recognized with more than another financial slap in the face. Especially when senior management enjoys some of the highest pay of their peer group.

It's posible we could see another bankruptcy at Airways in 2010 and the West might wind up on LOA 93 rates after all. If the airline even survives!

 

[cubfan]

One little fact I'd like to point out. What the East pilots would receive with the Kirby proposal is far in excess of 3%. The west pay rates would see a 3% increase.

not if their on 75/76 or 330

 

[EastUS]

What evidence or proof do you or anyone have that airplanes would go away or anyone furloughed.

I guess you would have to call that utterly irrational concern just a crazy, wild hunch....

Within even the current conditions; management has repeatedly noted that they're constrained by TA fleet mins. Recent and massive flight cancellations occurred due to front end crew shortages. Given that last?....the company's still intent on further furloughs soon to come.

Add to the above that their latest hobby's furloughing and closing bases at a record rate. (We all know that PHX is the impregnable Gibraltar of the company and would/could never be impacted in any way whatsoever...like PIT/LAS/LGA/BOS for examples) but anyway; Would they make further fleet/pilot reductions if allowed to do so? I guess there's not ever any possible real "proof" to be had pertaining to any aspects of future events, but shucks..even for a simple soul such as myself...some tea leaves just really ain't tough to read.

 

[EastUS]

That may be true, but the current West rate plus 3% is selling yourself short.

While it is unlikely the LOA 84 snapback rates will come to fruition and getting compensated like Southwest seems remote, you can do better than the Kirby proposal.

Probably a moot point as the East seems happy to slog on under LOA 93 no matter what, and the company is not motivated to cut a deal that might actually pass. Even with the Nic.

You might find this hard to believe, but the employees of USAirways East feel that their sacrifices in 2 Bankruptcies need to be recognized with more than another financial slap in the face. Especially when senior management enjoys some of the highest pay of their peer group.

It's posible we could see another bankruptcy at Airways in 2010 and the West might wind up on LOA 93 rates after all. If the airline even survives!

Agreed.

 

[Tiger 1050]

That may be true, but the current West rate plus 3% is selling yourself short.

While it is unlikely the LOA 84 snapback rates will come to fruition and getting compensated like Southwest seems remote, you can do better than the Kirby proposal.

Probably a moot point as the East seems happy to slog on under LOA 93 no matter what, and the company is not motivated to cut a deal that might actually pass. Even with the Nic.

You might find this hard to believe, but the employees of USAirways East feel that their sacrifices in 2 Bankruptcies need to be recognized with more than another financial slap in the face. Especially when senior management enjoys some of the highest pay of their peer group.

It's posible we could see another bankruptcy at Airways in 2010 and the West might wind up on LOA 93 rates after all. If the airline even survives!

Oh I totally agree! I just wanted to point out that the east would see a sizable increase whereas the west would not. At least with Kirby...

 

[Tiger 1050]

not if their on 75/76 or 330

Sorry Cubfan I guess I am missing your point. Do/did you have access to the Kirby where it shows the breakdown on A/C, Seat etc.? I don't recall ever seeing that, just percentages...

 

[nycbusdriver]

767,

I wouldn't be so sure. Of the WB Capts and some NB Capts I talk to, they want more money now. Every one of them. Your results may vary!

The truth of it is, you know I'm right. It's always been that way over there.


Flip

You're dreaming.

When you wake up you will find you are wrong.

 

[HPDriver]

You're dreaming.

When you wake up you will find you are wrong.

No, he's right.

When you decide to open your eyes to reality you will find you've been sold out by your brethren (again).

 

[N905TW]

IF the TA's 322 range a/c floor remained, instead of the Kirby's 250.

I must have missed this, where was this "250" minimum fleet count mentioned in writing?

 

[ableoneable]

You're dreaming.

When you wake up you will find you are wrong.

I agree with NYCbus.

The Kirby proposal will definitely get a NO vote from this west pilot.

That three percent gain in pay was more than covered by concessions in other sections of the proposal. Kirby is a net loss for anyone under the west contract.

 

[Flippin43]

make sure they realize Kirby gets them a wopping 3%. Also make sure they understand that as it is now that would put 400+ on the street. Tell them to go to a recurrent class in CLT and let their feelings known, they'd get run out of town. :down:

They don't vote in recurrent now do they?


F