US Pilot Labor Thread--11/16-23

[Piedmont1984]

NLC

Right back at you. Is DOH with PHX protections such an anathema to you that you are willing to burn the house down?

Judging from some of the stickers I see when going through PHX, you are as guilty as you accuse us of being.

 

[cleardirect]

Isn't that obvious by now? Have you missed the last two years of postings here?

We've already pretty much given "it all up" with ALPA's cram down tactics in its collusive efforts to take us down to AWA perennial gutter levels of compensation. The only valuable thing we have left is DOH. We won't let that go gently. Or has that fact somehow escaped your notice?

Bus driver,

It is late 2008 not 2000 or even 1980.

ALPA is no longer on the property. ALPA can not “cram downâ€￾ anything. It will be USAPA that does that to you.

Maybe you have not looked at the contract rates. If AWA rates are “gutterâ€￾ what does that make the east rates? Subterranean rates, sewer rates? Least you forget your narrow body boys make less then we do. Not a dig, just a fact. So actually you would come UP to our rates not down.

All of you are going to eventually figure out exactly how “valuableâ€￾ your DOH is. What are you willing to pay for it? It is not and will not be free, IF you can get it.

 

[cleardirect]

NLC

Right back at you. Is DOH with PHX protections such an anathema to you that you are willing to burn the house down?

Those PHX protections are not protections at all. They are not even an illusion of protections.

Answer just one question. Under USAPA “protectionsâ€￾ if we furlough 300 more pilots. How many west pilots get furloughed and how many east pilots get furloughed?

 

[EastUS]

This is an hilarious hodgepdoge of misunderstanding, misinformation and ignorance.

"French fries"?
"Decades of Franco oppression"?

How does the Spanish dictator, Franco, relate to your "french fries" comment? Missed that day in World History class, did we?

But USAPA is not fighting "half of its potential membership." Rather, a third of its potential membership refuses to accept the reality of the situation (as Doug Parker repeatedly tells them at the PHX Town Hall meetings.)

"How does the Spanish dictator, Franco, relate to your "french fries" comment?" Aha!...so that's where "Spanish Fry" originated? I'm only surprised at the ommision of the Belushi bit form Animal House = Did we give up when teh Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!??".."The Germans?".."Forget it, He's rolling."

"We east pilots have long figured on working under LOA 93 until then, so most of us are resigned to it." Whenever addressing the supposed "benefits" for the east to just roll over for nic; all I've ever heard from the west have been gleeful variations on "You can live on LOA93 forever!" Alpa, most certainly, couldn't have achieved any joint contract with the nic enclosed. The west had/has zero concerns for pay parity..unless, of course, should they even possibly, ever be brought down by the company via the same LOA93 that they so delight in seeing in the east..Oh well...same old/same old.

"Rather, a third of its potential membership refuses to accept the reality of the situation.." The old Robin Williams bit does come readilly to mind = "Reality!?...Whatta' Concept!"

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

NLC

Right back at you. Is DOH with PHX protections such an anathema to you that you are willing to burn the house down?

Judging from some of the stickers I see when going through PHX, you are as guilty as you accuse us of being.

Your observations may be correct. But may I ask who is responsible for initiating this situation? Who started all of this. Hmm?

You merely are suggesting that we become willing victims. Not gonna happen. We are not going to bend over for you and enjoy being raped by usapa. We have not abandoned our morals. We know what is right and what is just. Usapa has abandoned these principals to further its cause. We will continue to fight from the position we have retained all along: the higher ground.

How many defeats must you absorb to be convinced of the futility in which you are engaged?

 

[EastUS]

You have a job don't you? And according to your postings, your particular position is a pretty good gig. That should have some value.

So, is having your valuable seniority really more important than having a job?

Every usapian needs to ask himself/herself this question. Put the emotion aside and search for a serious answer.

If your statement is what you truely believe, you might as well leave now. Because, continuing along this tack will quite possibly cost you both.

Some people do have actual principles transcending personal needs or desires. Any that contiually post up bloated fantasies about how much their supposed "Integrity Matters" should have no difficulty in understanding that concept. Your questions are certainly "confusing" when viewed within that light.

All you're offering here's another round of fear-driven nonsense in vain hopes of advancing the insane surrender of reasoned principles in favor of irrationally contrived fears. A noted great philospher from classical western literature, none other than Chicken Little himself, earlier proved the complete lack of efficacy for such. It "sells" no better in these times.

 

[electricjet98]

NLC

Right back at you. Is DOH with PHX protections such an anathema to you that you are willing to burn the house down?

Judging from some of the stickers I see when going through PHX, you are as guilty as you accuse us of being.

DOH w/protections (actually, just a cruel joke) is not acceptable. However, we are not considering "burning the house down". We are not the one's admonishing members in union speak to be "good union members" or spending huge amounts for USToday ad's in an attempt to chase away paying customers. All we are doing is seeking justice by using our legal system. Will a successful outcome for the west as a result of the legal system trigger more of this "burning the house down" syndrome on the east?

 

[EastUS]

How many defeats must you absorb to be convinced of the futility in which you are engaged?

Hmmm...Now that's truly an "interesting" observation of itself, and speaks volumes about perspectives when one even begins to consider "Principles" "Morals", "Integrity", etc. (By NO means do I wish to even imply that real herioism in any way's involved with this labor strife, nor demean in any fashion people who've truly sacrifced. This reply just comes to mind by way of having seen so much of such nonsense from the west.) The actual, real King Leonidas, (as opposed to the "Army of Leonidas" in the west) when taking leave of his wife, was asked by her what she could do to help him. His answer was that she should marry a good man, raise fine children and live a good life. Just how much of a "victory" do you think he personally expected for himself?

If it's truly the case that your group's overly concerned that the house will burn down if you don't get your nic? = Tough luck. Reconsider your actions then.

 

[nycbusdriver]

So, is having your valuable seniority really more important than having a job?

After the last several years of soul-searching, the answer is "YES."

Even though my personal status has been unaffected by the Nic vs. DOH debacle, I decided to stand on principle for basic fairness, rather than for self-serving expedience. The very dark days at USAirways have taught most of us one important lesson: There is indeed life after USAirways, and my (or anyone else) having a job/income does not depend on the existence of USAirways at all. And most of those who support USAPA in its efforts are also fully cognizant of that fact.

I emotionally divorced this company a few years back. I will continue to collect my alimony for now, as it is the very least they the greedy b[illegitimate sons]ds owe me.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Your observations may be correct. But may I ask who is responsible for initiating this situation? Who started all of this. Hmm?

You merely are suggesting that we become willing victims. Not gonna happen. We are not going to bend over for you and enjoy being raped by usapa. We have not abandoned our morals. We know what is right and what is just. Usapa has abandoned these principals to further its cause. We will continue to fight from the position we have retained all along: the higher ground.

How many defeats must you absorb to be convinced of the futility in which you are engaged?

I would say ALPA in general, ALPA merger policy and John Prater are responsible, in no particular order, for this situation.

As long as you continue to equate DOH with rape and your side's position with honor, integrity and high ground while demonizing the east - you will continue to delude yourself.

And in case you haven't noticed, there has been neither defeat nor victory so far, only stalemate.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

After the last several years of soul-searching, the answer is "YES."

Even though my personal status has been unaffected by the Nic vs. DOH debacle, I decided to stand on principle for basic fairness, rather than for self-serving expedience. The very dark days at USAirways have taught most of us one important lesson: There is indeed life after USAirways, and my (or anyone else) having a job/income does not depend on the existence of USAirways at all. And most of those who support USAPA in its efforts are also fully cognizant of that fact.

I emotionally divorced this company a few years back. I will continue to collect my alimony for now, as it is the very least they the greedy b[illegitimate sons]ds owe me.

So, the West must pay the price for your past "professional" misfortunes.

Now I understand.

And I would suggest that the "dark days" will live on in perpetuity within the east pilot group in spite of the ray of light that could enlighten your way into the future.

 

[Piedmont1984]

As someone who has been active on these boards since 2002 I think just now you've captured and articulated what many US employees feel way down deep.

In my observation it's not just pilots who feel as you do, it is system wide at every wage level. It's not that those on the West are bad or clueless people, far from it. The simple fact is that most, if any have no frame of reference to the experiences you've endured. Many don't understand because they simply can't know how it feels having never lived it.

I was Viet Nam era but my draft number was quite high and I din't go. Now it's true that I lived through those troubled times and had friends come back changed or dead but I can never fully comprehend no matter how hard I try what went on there and neither can the west pilots totally understand where the East pilots are mentally.

I think many East pilots would sooner have US Airways fold then yield even so much as the value of a cup of coffee to Doug parker.

You seem to wax philosophical after a nap.

 

[nycbusdriver]

So, the West must pay the price for your past "professional" misfortunes.

Now I understand.

And I would suggest that the "dark days" will live on in perpetuity within the east pilot group in spite of the ray of light that could enlighten your way into the future.

Our basic difference is that we on the east no longer equate money with a "ray of light."

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (NiceLandingCaptain @ Nov 18 2008, 12:18 PM)
So, is having your valuable seniority really more important than having a job?


nycbusdriver: "After the last several years of soul-searching, the answer is "YES."

"Even though my personal status has been unaffected by the Nic vs. DOH debacle, I decided to stand on principle for basic fairness, rather than for self-serving expedience. The very dark days at USAirways have taught most of us one important lesson: There is indeed life after USAirways, and my (or anyone else) having a job/income does not depend on the existence of USAirways at all. And most of those who support USAPA in its efforts are also fully cognizant of that fact.

nycbusdriver: "Our basic difference is that we on the east no longer equate money with a "ray of light."


Very well said on all accounts sir.

 

[tazz]

The actual, real King Leonidas, (as opposed to the "Army of Leonidas" in the west) when taking leave of his wife, was asked by her what she could do to help him. His answer was that she should marry a good man, raise fine children and live a good life. Just how much of a "victory" do you think he personally expected for himself?

If it's truly the case that your group's overly concerned that the house will burn down if you don't get your nic? = Tough luck. Reconsider your actions then.

So how did it turn out for the real King Leonidas? We have learned from history. So should you.