US Pilot Labor Thread--11/16-23

[nostradamus]

You mean like a re-activation of your CIRP? Another decert drive? Shut the place down? We're shaking in our boots.

Those were aquagreens words not mine. Your post 198 makes it look like it was something I said, it was not.

 

[cleardirect]

This is a class action according to the Fed. R. Civ. P. 23 by the Plaintiffs to enjoin the Defendants to place the Plaintiffs in their proper place on the USAirways pilot seniority list. Their proper place will recognize their full seniority rights and privileges. Their proper place is according to their date of hire at the USAirways predecessor airlines of Empire Airlines and Eastern Airlines


They are suing to reorder the list for DOH.

Yes they are.

They are suing to reorder the east list. As it has been pointed out many, many, many times here. We do not have a joint contract yet. So the two lists are still separate. Therefore If the Empire/Trump suit is successful. As it should be because USAPA campaigned and operates as a DOH union. Then the east list will be reordered by DOH then reinserted back into the Nicolau award.

If you have read the order from judge Wake, it appears that he believes that USAPA did breach it duty to fairly represent the west. Also that yes USAPA inherited the Nicolau award.

If USAPA loses both of these suits we will see an east DOH list placed by relative seniority using the Nicolau list going forward with the joint contract.

Kind of ironic, if USAPA after promising to shelve the Nicolau is forced by the court to implement it. In addition to also forcing some of your own pilots down the list because of an emotional act.

Will the east pilots continue to be members and pay dues to an association that promised them a huge windfall? But actually sent you backwards, cost you at least a year or more of a better contract and possibly a gigantic assessment to pay off the damages.

Just a suggestion. But if I were an east pilot you may want to consider removing the entire leadership at USAPA. They are the ones that promised you the world and delivered nothing. They are the ones that started the law suits with individual pilots. They are the ones that have brought all of us to where we are.

 

[cleardirect]

The Shuttle pilots may be stepping on their own "member" if this succeeds. Not ONE of them was on the Eastern Airlines seniority list after they resigned their position to go to the TRUMP Shuttle (separate company from Eastern with a separate operating certificate.) USAir did not acquire the any portion of Eastern Airlines, they acquired the Trump Shuttle. I'm not sure of the date of incorporation of the Trump Shuttle, but it would be ludicrous to argue a DOH based on a resigned position and which predates the existence of your the employer which was acquired. Should be interesting.

Their argument, of course, will be that Trump recognized their Eastern DOH. That's fine (sounds like DOH was a bargaining position?) Does that mean I can start a new Part 121 carrier tomorrow and give all my employees a DOH of December 17, 1903 (Kitty Hawk) and then when bought out, expect the acquiring company to give credence to that DOH? Same argument the Shuttle pilots are making, simply different degree.

And the Empire pilots might have a better argument, except that their DOH started when they were Part 135 flying Navajos and Metros. That will become and apples vs. oranges argument. This will then open the door toe Piedmont Aviation part 135 types looking for their DOH, as well as the wholly-owned commuter types who later went to mainline looking for the same thing. I doubt the judge will open that can of worms.

Bus driver,

Using your argument. Why are the CEL guys on the east main line list?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Kind of ironic, if USAPA after promising to shelve the Nicolau is forced by the court to implement it.

USAPA NEVER promised any such thing. NEVER. EVER.

Bus driver,

Using your argument. Why are the CEL guys on the east main line list?

Umm....ya think maybe because they took jobs at mainline (yes, MidAtlantic WAS mainline just as much as MetroJet was) flying EMB 170s?

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Strangely quiet on the eastern front. Judge Wake has, in a few succint sentences, basically extinguished any DOH fire usapa may have had left. Post #207 outlines the hits usapa has taken. The USS Usap has had major parts of her hull breeched.

Time to man the life boats.........abandon ship!!!

Only question: will the Captain (or in this case, F.O. Stevie) go down with his vessel?

 

[Elevation]

Strangely quiet on the eastern front. Judge Wake has, in a few succint sentences, basically extinguished any DOH fire usapa may have had left. Post #207 outlines the hits usapa has taken. The USS Usap has had major parts of her hull breeched.

Time to man the life boats.........abandon ship!!!

Only question: will the Captain (or in this case, F.O. Stevie) go down with his vessel?

Lets hope so.

 

[Elevation]

And the Spin begins....

USAPA remains convinced that the facts and the law support our position. We ask our members for their continued support during the course of this litigation. USAPA also continues to encourage West pilots who have not yet done so to join the Association so that they can have greater participation in the formulation of USAPA policy.



Stephen Bradford

 

[cubfan]

Yes they are.

They are suing to reorder the east list. As it has been pointed out many, many, many times here. We do not have a joint contract yet. So the two lists are still separate. Therefore If the Empire/Trump suit is successful. As it should be because USAPA campaigned and operates as a DOH union. Then the east list will be reordered by DOH then reinserted back into the Nicolau award.

If you have read the order from judge Wake, it appears that he believes that USAPA did breach it duty to fairly represent the west. Also that yes USAPA inherited the Nicolau award.

If USAPA loses both of these suits we will see an east DOH list placed by relative seniority using the Nicolau list going forward with the joint contract.

Kind of ironic, if USAPA after promising to shelve the Nicolau is forced by the court to implement it. In addition to also forcing some of your own pilots down the list because of an emotional act.

Will the east pilots continue to be members and pay dues to an association that promised them a huge windfall? But actually sent you backwards, cost you at least a year or more of a better contract and possibly a gigantic assessment to pay off the damages.

Just a suggestion. But if I were an east pilot you may want to consider removing the entire leadership at USAPA. They are the ones that promised you the world and delivered nothing. They are the ones that started the law suits with individual pilots. They are the ones that have brought all of us to where we are.

clear,

I'm not sure how you can have part DOH and part not. If in fact Nic is put into place by court order I think that would put the other suit to bed also. If that suit is won, then how could they say you couldn't do the same to the NIC. Just my take. Also if the NIC is actually put into place, age 65 in place, no protections for bases, couldn't the senior PSA group move to the top of PHX, LAS list to move closer to home? This will all be soon decided, when it's over I feel most will accept the decision and be ready to move on. The west will soon be paying members and all can work toward a better contract.

 

[Barberpole]

clear,
This will all be soon decided, when it's over I feel most will accept the decision and be ready to move on.

The exact same thing was said about the seniority arbitration....LOL...

 

[hp-to-us]

can someone post a link the ruling?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Strangely quiet on the eastern front.

Wrong yet again. Or, should I say, inevitably.

USAPA has a response posted on the website and sent to all members in good standing.

 

[Barberpole]

Let me just say that I'm sorry that ANYONE is getting furloughed. It really sucks to have it happen at all. Maybe if this economy can get turned around soon it can be minimized. Let's just hope that Obama gets his..."cabinet" together!

Hmmmmm Oldiebutgoody.... Sounds like BS to me. Here is a direct quote from one of your earlier posts....

"""You have quite an imagination. It should serve you well, long afternoons standing under the heating lamps.

At least you'll have Thanksgiving and Christmas off!""""



I'm one of the guys who wasn't expecting to have the holidays off. Particularly considering we have pilots on probation still going to work. But I have faith in the justice system....

 

[Metroyet]

Wrong yet again. Or, should I say, inevitably.

USAPA has a response posted on the website and sent to all members in good standing.

Where is the Ruling in it's entirety? Did the USAPA information police determine that it was "unhealthy" for the members, (who pay their salary) to be properly informed again?

Ever get that feeling that you're being spoon fed lies and half truths?

In the end, Bradford et.al are going to be left penniless for their actions and once again, nobody to blame but the guy in the mirror.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

quote Where is the Ruling in it's entirety? Did the USAPA information police determine that it was "unhealthy" for the members, (who pay their salary) to be properly informed again?

Its been there all morning in the legal links, was there before the response was posted.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Where is the Ruling in it's entirety? Did the USAPA information police determine that it was "unhealthy" for the members, (who pay their salary) to be properly informed again?

Ever get that feeling that you're being spoon fed lies and half truths?

In the end, Bradford et.al are going to be left penniless for their actions and once again, nobody to blame but the guy in the mirror.

As 88 said, it's been in its entirety on the USAPA legal links.

In putting ALL of the legal documents online for the membership, they've certainly taken that particular wind out of the sails of a lot of windy posts here.