US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/21-4/28

[ussnark]

6 month limit on DFR. We are well past that time. It has been a year since ALPA left the property. Time to let go of the boogeyman.

There is no limit on criminal behavior.

 

[nic4us]

That must have been right after the merger, when AWH stockholders as a group held more LCC stock than any other individual/entity.

All that said, any guesses about what the future holds for merger or spinoff transactions is purely speculation. I'm not sure that anything US has is worth the cost to another airline, be they buying the whole thing, or only East or West.

Jim

You are correct. I was refering to just after the merger. However, I assumed that the dominant holders of AWH, would in turn become dominant holders of LCC once their stock was converted.

My scenario of a possible future transactions was to point out that it may not go along East/West lines, if the company were fragmented. Also, to highlight that airline management has coined a term new to me "seniority cost of pilots", and they see it as a detriment to the bottom line, and from their point of view should be avoided if possible.

 

[pilotn79]

Sulley and Skiles. They are listed as History and the inequities of Nicolau. Since we will not relitigate the Nicolau they become irrelevant to this case.

Since we have no defense, we are hoping the OJ jury will ignore the facts after being mesmerized by the appearance of Sully and Skiles. For the life of me, I can't see how these two would want their good names tarnished. It is really sad that USAPA would stoop to this level but I am not suprised. USAPA is all about smoke and mirrors.

 

[luvn737s]

This may surprise you, but I like the idea of NMB mediation/arbitration track, especially with a Federal Judge looking over our shoulder. Then parker cant hide behind his bad-faith rope-a-dope tactics. But do you really believe parker will let a Federal judge force him into mediation/arbitration if he doesnt want to be there? Hell be in court fighting it til planes are replaced with Mag-Levs.

It doesn't surprise me. The east ignores the history the west has had with Parker and his predecessors. The company RAN to mediation last time so that the NMB could "park" negotiations. ALPA saw that the road to a decent contract was too steep uphill, so they settled for a lousy one, blaming a republican administration. The original move to oust ALPA at AWA was centered on wanting to try harder to get more. USAPA cannot claim the same.

Without the clout of the AFL-CIO behind them, USAPA has no pull with those who pull the strings of the NMB, even with a more pro-labor administration. There will be no release into self-help if other airlines whose union affiliations poured more money into Obamas election are looking for the same favor and Obama can't let all the airlines sit on the ground.

So if you want to keep ops separate until you retire, regardless of cost or loss, I can see your point. You are trading guards in the watchtower. Now folks can blame the NMB instead of USAPA. If you're actually thinking of attaining a better contract rather than continuing to sink in the LaBrea Tar Pits of inflation, then it's pointless.

Rejoining ALPA, as distasteful as that may be to some, may be the only way to gain necessary leverage with other allies. Air Tran thinks so.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You are correct. I was refering to just after the merger. However, I assumed that the dominant holders of AWH, would in turn become dominant holders of LCC once their stock was converted.

They would have become holders, but I don't know about the dominant part. IIRC, the largest holders were the outside investors whose money made the merger possible - they got up to 19% or so each, depending on how much they put into the pot.

Without looking it up, I think the existing AWH stockholders taken as a group split something like 45% of the LCC stock that was issued initially.

Jim

 

[electricjet98]

This just in; Usapa's MIL requesting exclusion of exhibit #14 has been denied by Judge Wake!

The only point made in trial exhibit No. 14 that is not disclosed in exhibit Nos. 314 and 315 is that Mr. Katzenbach cautioned Mr. Bradford that when communicating the reasons for forming USAPA and when selling USAPA to the East Pilots he must not reveal that the reason for creating USAPA was to “abrogateâ€￾ the Nicolau Arbitration.

 

[Hate2fly]

[Empire/Shuttle DFR just tanked!!!!!!!!!

 

[cleardirect]

There is no limit on criminal behavior.

Criminal behavior?

What crimes did ALPA commit? You said DFR. Do you consider the charges of DFR to be criminal now?

The east pilots have been accused of not following the "ta", when, in fact, they have, USAPA constitution notwithstanding. The issue, in my mind, revolves around the separately ratified merger agreements, which, as you suggest, will never be ratified.

I have to agree with you. I believe ALPA dumped both the east and the west, even attempted to arrange events to cause that to occur (trusteeship, etc.). They could see the writing on the wall with the "nic", that there is no way both east and west could ever be accommodated under that turn of events. ALPA is trying to distance themselves. I believe a DFR should be filed against ALPA, the ones who inappropriately submitted flawed lists as well as confidential information. The franchise is failed and ALPA made it easy to leave.

They are watching the west act like little kids, keeping their fingers crossed that the kids don't join up with the east and, properly, IMO, sue them.

 

[toganoflex]

This just in; Usapa's MIL requesting exclusion of exhibit #14 has been denied by Judge Wake!

The only point made in trial exhibit No. 14 that is not disclosed in exhibit Nos. 314 and 315 is that Mr. Katzenbach cautioned Mr. Bradford that when communicating the reasons for forming USAPA and when selling USAPA to the East Pilots he must not reveal that the reason for creating USAPA was to “abrogateâ€￾ the Nicolau Arbitration.

That's gotta hurt.

Seham is gonna need more dues money.

 

[Fully Cross Utilized]

Can someone tell me where to find Judge Wake's recent rulings so I can read them for myself? Thank you very much!

 

[toganoflex]

Can someone tell me where to find Judge Wake's recent rulings so I can read them for myself? Thank you very much!

pilotloop.com

 

[toganoflex]

[Empire/Shuttle DFR just tanked!!!!!!!!!

Relax.

It was dismissed without prejudice.

Should, and this is a big should, USAPA get a DOH list on property without adjustments to the Empire/Shuttle pilots, then they are free to pursue their claim again.

 

[Fully Cross Utilized]

pilotloop.com

Thanks, toganoflex.

 

[jetjok1]

Pehaps you should go watch the PHX crew news with Kirby. He says something very interesting in regards to snap back for the East pilots. He gives it odds of " what is a number very close to zero" then goes on to talk about the "seniority cost of pilots".

The second part is what is troubling to me. The company is talking about the fact that pilot groups in the industry have lower cost when they are newer groups. If management within the industry could figure a way to get us all back on newhire pay scales they will do it. Future mergers will not be mergers at all but take the guise of upstarts and if you want a job your longevity clock is going to get reset every 10-12 years, to keep your scales competitive within the industry.

This talk of East merging with United and the West left out in the cold is laughable. Last I heard America West Holding was by far the largest holder of LCC stock. I could picture a scenario in which the West is merged with United and takes with it all of LCC's airbus fleet, (east and west) as the newer West group is insufficient to staff all those airplanes the merged company would have to have new hires, and therefore lower "seniority cost of pilots".

In reference to your 1st paragraph- I have no desire and will not watch the PHX crew news. You see, I don't care what Kirby has to say.(you know, kinda of like you guys feel about USAPA) All I care about is what he does. Talk is cheap. In reference to paragraph 2, it's time we take a stand and, if necessary, take action to demand we be paid appropriately for our services. Collectively, they can't replace us within any normal timeframe. Also, my longevity clock won't be adjusting anytime soon unless this place goes under and........if it does, oh well

As far as the third paragraph, that's laughable to me as well. And your twist to the rumor. It's as laughable too! But, whatever floats your boat. Enough said. We need to get this thing together to protect ALL of our interests.

 

[ussnark]

Criminal behavior?

What crimes did ALPA commit? You said DFR. Do you consider the charges of DFR to be criminal now?

Talk to Mike Abrams.