US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/21-4/28

[tazz]

Can any of you USAPA fans tell me where all the updates are? I seem to remember USAPA touting itself as an "electronic union" but I haven't seen anything of substance lately.

Why?

Same situation as with Nic. The direction was not favorable to the east and, instead of keeping its constituents informed and prepared for an unfavorable outcome, the east MEC (and now USAPA) played dumb and continued to paint a rosy picture.

And, of course, after the decision was rendered the east leadership showed utter surprise and shock and looked to project the blame onto a senile old man and greedy west pilots.


And guess what, its happening again.

I do believe that your statement sums up how we got to where we are in the first place. The east pilots at first unable, and later, refusing to see the truth.

 

[nic4us]

How can a union represent those who don't pay dues?

Union representation comes from the membership up not the leadership down. You elect leaders to do what the membership desires. It is the leaderships job to do the will of the people ( membership ).

Its the same logic as saying I didn't vote, but I'm going to take you to court because I disagree with the out come.

Common sense and values must be restored or we will all parish.

wopr

Why pay dues to a union that does not represent you, and in fact is discriminating against you?

This unions representation did not come from the membership up, it started in the back of a van on the way home from Herndon, and drafted a Constitution that was designed to do harm to the West minority.

Common sense is not so common, 1/2 a wit seems well above average, and values are being manufactured to fit the personal opinion. I too fear our demise.

 

[prechilill]

For the east guys who don't bother to keep up with the litigation, here's a quick score on the Motions in Limine:

Leonidas: 5 granted (56%), 1 denied (11%), 3 TBA today (33%)

USAPA: 3 granted (9%), 29 denied (88%), 1 TBA today (3%)

Interesting statistics. If you take the data a little deeper you can surmise Seham has no clue what to argue in front of the judge. Maybe it was a shotgun approach, but that too indicates Seham doesn't really understand what is to be argued in court. THis is a bad sign for USAPA. Real bad, in my opinion because it shows they are going into court without a strategy- without a plan.
The only good news for USAPA is AOL needs a unanimous verdict from the jury. It shouldn't be too hard to do, but nevertheless it requires nine different variables to reach the same conclusion.
The only hope USAPA has at this point is a mistrial.

 

[ussnark]

Judge Wake will have the authority to implement the rulings to be handed down. The whole idea of separate ratification by both sides (there are no longer "two sides") is ludicrous.

But, it is what you agreed to. Isn't it? Are you going against your word? It seems you are now reneging on "your" deal.

 

[toganoflex]

USAPA - 30 denied as of today.

 

[Megasnoop]

No one back here ever doubted youd sue. But we dont need a case.

In other words, you know full well what this DFR is about...and you knew from the beginning.

Huh? You filed the DFR. Your the ones who need a case. Maybe you got one. Well know after the verdict and all the appeals are over. All we have to do is defend.

Sorry dude, Usapa is too far over the line. They crossed that line well before the election when they promised to keep "nic on the shelf" if you all would just vote for them.

Hey Noster, now Im a DUDE, too! Metro tries to make the vote a single issue. Forgot about ALPA disallowing two recall elections and trusteeship for PHL. Those two brainiac moves guaranteed ALPAs demise. Before that, Id say it was close.

The judge addressed that issue in court yesterday. The words contempt, and damages were spoken. Judge Wake is well aware of the final solution the east has in mind. It would be entertaining to see Cleary frog marched out of CLT by federal marshals under order from a federal judge.

Quite a stretch, clear. A DFR win=a contempt citation? And you say were delusional?

Nos, Seham will or should be irrelevant at trial. Usapa is spending huge dollars on a PHL lawyer named Brengle. He is suppose to be the trial litigator.

If Seehams so irrelevant, why the continued insults? Brengles probably about the same hourly rate as your attorneys. And yes, he is a highly skilled litigator. Naval Academy and UCSF law school.

Judge Wake will have the authority to implement the rulings to be handed down. The whole idea of separate ratification by both sides (there are no longer "two sides") is ludicrous. Both sides would had to have been sufficiently happy with the award, which is nearly an impossibility. Judge Wake has already alluded to this. So, it will be time for the group, as a whole, to have the maturity and integrity to move forward after the trial, for the common good of all. And please, stop the whining about an appeal already.

A single vote only if the judge has authority to negate that part of the TA. Even in a single vote, East still out-votes West 2 to 1. One thing he cant do is force parker to negotiate in good faith. Only the NMB can do that. NMB cant do that until we can prove bad fiath from the company after Section 6 starts. With our pay increase this January and $70 Million bonus coming, long-term separate ops? Ill suffer. Snoop

 

[nic4us]

But, it is what you agreed to. Isn't it? Are you going against your word? It seems you are now reneging on "your" deal.

I am still fine with separate contract ratification. Do not know how that would work, because it is probably in direct conflict with the USAPA Constitution, but I do not pay attention to that anyway, and neither does USAPA, so lets have seperate ratification. Better yet lets have seperate ratification and anyone who was in good standing at the time the TA was written gets to vote.

 

[toganoflex]

Well know after the verdict and all the appeals are over. All we have to do is defend.

Do you understand how the appellate system work regarding a CIVIL case?

Just to give you a little primer, you have to make a MOTION for an appeal which with then be reviewed by the Appellate Court. If they find PROCEDURAL errors, then I'm sure USAPA will get its appeal. But filing a motion just because you don't like the verdict is not going to fly.

Oh, and then there's the matter of a bond that has to be posted.

So if you're already counting on an appeal, then you're in for a nasty surprise.

And as for that "All we have to do is defend" comment, USAPA isn't doing so well. But hey, its only dues money, right?

 

[toganoflex]

With our pay increase this January and $70 Million bonus coming, long-term separate ops?

Ummmm, have you not seen the lastest PHX Crew News? Need to watch it so you don't start spending any of that "pay increase."

Hard to misinterpret what Kirby said.

 

[Elevation]

How do you think the East pilots/USAPA are going to get a raise in Jan '10? Do you think there's a computer in the payroll department that will automatically start paying you the old rates on new years day? Doug Parker has already stated that it is not going to happen, USAPA is going to have to take it from him and that means arbitration time again...then you wait and wait.

 

[electricjet98]

A single vote only if the judge has authority to negate that part of the TA. Even in a single vote, East still out-votes West 2 to 1. One thing he cant do is force parker to negotiate in good faith. Only the NMB can do that. NMB cant do that until we can prove bad fiath from the company after Section 6 starts. With our pay increase this January and $70 Million bonus coming, long-term separate ops? Ill suffer. Snoop

You may be surprised...again.

Plaintiffs’ ISSUE #2: Whether USAPA so violated its duty of fair
representation that the Court should order the airline and USAPA to
submit to NMB mediation/arbitration to create and implement a single
joint collective bargaining agreement that incorporates the Nicolau
Award seniority list.
Plaintiffs Contend: Yes. See Chicago & N. W. Ry. Co. v. United Transp.
Union, 402 U.S. 570, 577 (1971) (holding that the duty to bargain in good
faith “was intended to be more than a mere statement of policy or
exhortation to the parties; rather, it was designed to be a legal obligation,
enforceable by whatever appropriate means might be developed on a caseby-
case basis.â€￾); United Air Lines, Inc. v. Air Line Pilots Assn., Intern.
2008 WL 4936847, 35 (N.D. Ill. 2008) (“[T]he obligation to make and
maintain agreements without interruption to the carrier's operations is …
an affirmative legal obligation, enforceable by … injunction.â€￾).

 

[electricjet98]

With our pay increase this January and $70 Million bonus coming, long-term separate ops? Ill suffer. Snoop

Oh yeah, I forgot about that cool $70 million.

ISSUE #3: Whether, in a reasonably cost-neutral manner, West Pilots
now on furlough can be recalled and East Pilots furloughed in their place.

Plaintiffs Contend: Yes. There are more than enough East Pilots working
in positions for which the West Pilots on furlough are fully trained. There
are more than enough East Pilots flying in and out of the domicile cities to
which the currently furloughed West Pilots were assigned. Any costs to
the Airline from recalling West Pilots and furloughing East Pilots can be
set off against funds that the Airline will soon be due to pay to East Pilots.

 

[cleardirect]

QUOTE (cleardirect @ Apr 22 2009, 08:11 AM) *
The judge addressed that issue in court yesterday. The words contempt, and damages were spoken. Judge Wake is well aware of the final solution the east has in mind. It would be entertaining to see Cleary frog marched out of CLT by federal marshals under order from a federal judge.

Quite a stretch, clear. A DFR win=a contempt citation? And you say were delusional?

Calling the judge delusional already? I guess it is never to early to find excuses. These were his words in reference to usapa not following a finding of liability against usapa.

QUOTE (cleardirect @ Apr 22 2009, 08:40 AM) *
Nos, Seham will or should be irrelevant at trial. Usapa is spending huge dollars on a PHL lawyer named Brengle. He is suppose to be the trial litigator.

If Seehams so irrelevant, why the continued insults? Brengles probably about the same hourly rate as your attorneys. And yes, he is a highly skilled litigator. Naval Academy and UCSF law school.

What insults? Are you imagining something? What words in that statement do you find insulting? I never said anything bad about Brengle or his qualifications. It is usapa that brought Bregle in for a reason. To litigate at trial not Seham.

 

[jetjok1]

You guys are easily baited. Just so we're clear, I'm 43 years old. I grew up on the West Coast...that's how we speak. I also occasionally say words like "bitchin'" and "Rad". It's a west coast thing. I know you all love to imaging the West guys as snot nosed kids, but it just ain't true "Bro".

Metro,

Give me a break Bro! I'm an West Coast guy all of my life (more life years than yours) but I'm an East Coast pilot. I don't say "bitchin" and "Rad". It's not a west coast thing. It's your thing. I going to ask you to quit categorizing "all" East pilots as some cancer causing infliction. You're wrong! Bro! Listen to Richard. Stick to topics. You're slamming us is one of the worst on these boards. I respect Nic, NLC, and a few others because they actually have thought-provoking things to say. You, though, well - it's boring! Samo, samo. everytime.

 

[ClueByFour]

The reason why USAPA was formed, is not relevant sir?

The jump seat requests are not. The motivation may be, but then you let in the Angry Cranberry FO Club getting massacred with their promises of DOH and a subsequent DFR to get it.

You guys really need to think this all the way thru the next time...