Are you serious Toga!. I don't read the PHX Crew News, I don't read anything that comes out of the "Temple of Tempe". It's "Frat-boy follie". Post something that has meaning. Otherwise, you're wasting bandwidth.
US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/21-4/28
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
- Status
Are you serious Toga!. I don't read the PHX Crew News, I don't read anything that comes out of the "Temple of Tempe". It's "Frat-boy follie". Post something that has meaning. Otherwise, you're wasting bandwidth.
Metroyet
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2008
- Messages
- 2,571
- Reaction score
- 5,664
Megasnoop
Veteran
Yeah, a little bit. You/we appeal, you/we get a hearing or you/we dont. Lose and appeal to the court en banc. Maybe get a hearing there, maybe not. Lose on appeal, you/we go for the Hail Mary to the Supreme Court. Fairly simple. Did I miss any of the possible steps?
And YOUR agency fees. Thank you, suzie (I know your not suzie).
PHX crew news. Now theres a keeper. If parker denies us, we file a grievance. After we win and parker still denies us, normally we could go to court for injunctive relief. But by then well be already in Section 6 negotiations. Now its a major dispute, maybe even viewed as company self-help, without NMB permission. No telling where that could go. If parker goes down that road, hes looking for a showdown because hes got something more sinister in mind. As long as were still separate operations, hes got two separate groups he can spin off. Worst case for you, he merges East with UAL and lets his money-losing hubs just disappear. Worst case for us, not sure there is a worst case for us, except more lawsuits. But then youd be suing ALPA, because under the preponderance of membership provisions in NMB rules, once a single-carrier finding, there doesnt even have to be a vote and I get to be an ALPA non-member again. Guess you could collect balance in USAPAs bank account.
CONTEND? Hows that one playing out in limines? Showing good faith, we tried to bring in an NMB facilitator (thats pre Section 6 and mediation/arbitration) 2 months ago. Parker didnt go for that.
This may surprise you, but I like the idea of NMB mediation/arbitration track, especially with a Federal Judge looking over our shoulder. Then parker cant hide behind his bad-faith rope-a-dope tactics. But do you really believe parker will let a Federal judge force him into mediation/arbitration if he doesnt want to be there? Hell be in court fighting it til planes are replaced with Mag-Levs.
We havent.
And hows that issue going? So all East pilots, even dues objectors, get to pay for training events? YHGTBKM!
No, I said you were delusional: “Quite a stretch, clear. A DFR win=a contempt citation? And you say were delusional?â€
Obviously I was commenting on your constant insults on Seeham. Brengle named trial attorney back in February. Truth is most of the points the judge ruled on were initiated by Brengle. So go ahead and insult him.
Steve
The Major/Minor Dispute is not decided in a grievance you have to file against US in Federal Court.
The IAM did this in the airbus outsourcing and won a TRO and major dispute only to have it overturned on appeal and sent to arbitration.
And if you win an arbitration case and the company refuses to adhere to it, once again it goes to court.
The IAM did this in the airbus outsourcing and won a TRO and major dispute only to have it overturned on appeal and sent to arbitration.
And if you win an arbitration case and the company refuses to adhere to it, once again it goes to court.
toganoflex
Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2008
- Messages
- 557
- Reaction score
- 381
You just keep that head of yours buried in that hole. Maybe you can hold off reality a bit longer.
toganoflex
Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2008
- Messages
- 557
- Reaction score
- 381
You forgot to talk about the bond USAPA will have to post. And you forgot to mention that Wake's remedy will not be held up just because you appeal.
Like I said, unless your brilliant attorney finds fault in Wake's judicial procedure, not liking the verdict is NOT a good reason. But hey, its your dues.
Haven't paid a dime to USAPA.
Man, I thought that appeal fantasy was up there, but this takes the cake.
Show good faith?!?! You mean USAPA tried to save face. Unable to live up to their pre-election hype, they're now looking for an excuse and you're eating it up. But that's not really surprising.
Funny, I thought all you east guys now had an aversion to med/arbs. And you're right about Parker and the NMB. If you think the NMB is your buddy, you're into another fantasy.
Pehaps you should go watch the PHX crew news with Kirby. He says something very interesting in regards to snap back for the East pilots. He gives it odds of " what is a number very close to zero" then goes on to talk about the "seniority cost of pilots".
The second part is what is troubling to me. The company is talking about the fact that pilot groups in the industry have lower cost when they are newer groups. If management within the industry could figure a way to get us all back on newhire pay scales they will do it. Future mergers will not be mergers at all but take the guise of upstarts and if you want a job your longevity clock is going to get reset every 10-12 years, to keep your scales competitive within the industry.
This talk of East merging with United and the West left out in the cold is laughable. Last I heard America West Holding was by far the largest holder of LCC stock. I could picture a scenario in which the West is merged with United and takes with it all of LCC's airbus fleet, (east and west) as the newer West group is insufficient to staff all those airplanes the merged company would have to have new hires, and therefore lower "seniority cost of pilots".
The east pilots have been accused of not following the "ta", when, in fact, they have, USAPA constitution notwithstanding. The issue, in my mind, revolves around the separately ratified merger agreements, which, as you suggest, will never be ratified.
I have to agree with you. I believe ALPA dumped both the east and the west, even attempted to arrange events to cause that to occur (trusteeship, etc.). They could see the writing on the wall with the "nic", that there is no way both east and west could ever be accommodated under that turn of events. ALPA is trying to distance themselves. I believe a DFR should be filed against ALPA, the ones who inappropriately submitted flawed lists as well as confidential information. The franchise is failed and ALPA made it easy to leave.
They are watching the west act like little kids, keeping their fingers crossed that the kids don't join up with the east and, properly, IMO, sue them.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 16,512
- Reaction score
- 5,865
That must have been right after the merger, when AWH stockholders as a group held more LCC stock than any other individual/entity. There's no way of knowing if that is still the case since individual stockholders aren't required to report holdings of less than 5% of outstanding stock.
AWH never held any LCC stock since it became a wholly-owned division of US Airways Group with the merger and issuance of LCC stock that replaced AWH stock.
All that said, any guesses about what the future holds for merger or spinoff transactions is purely speculation. I'm not sure that anything US has is worth the cost to another airline, be they buying the whole thing, or only East or West.
Jim
Perhaps a little age will educate you that public announcements rarely are what they seem. For instance, ask yourself who the intended audience was for Kirby's little brave words. IMO, he is playing the west dudes (yeah, I still surf) and their twisted idea of punishing the east pilots, he is playing the east pilots by lowering their short term expectations of increased compensation, he is signaling other US unions that they will have to fight for new contracts (AFA) and he is reassuring investors/stakeholders that things will stay the same. He may very well believe what he says, it makes the pronouncements more credible, but, as to whether he thinks that is the way things will go, who knows. I would expect nothing less out of my managers. It is a part of business.
Many pilots (both east and west) still think management is here to help the employees out. Management is here to "help out" the corporation (and their pockets), first, our presumption being that the front line employees will benefit from the meager fallout, a presumption not shared by the executives. Case in point. The "On time debacle".
cleardirect
Veteran
- Joined
- May 24, 2008
- Messages
- 6,234
- Reaction score
- 9,749
Let’s go back and clarify what this is about.
This is not about what I said or my opinion. No need to make it personal. I was quoting the judge’s words regarding a continuing separate ops and disregarding of a ruling against usapa. So it would be the judge that determines if usapa is in contempt of his order. He also mentioned more damages if usapa was not in compliance.
This is not my opinion, desire or delusion but the judge’s opinion and authority.
Again let’s go back to the origin.
My point was Seham by USAPA’s own admission should be irrelevant when the trial starts. If you consider pointing out Seham’s failures as an insult not my problem.
Would that be the 30 out of 33 motions in limine that were denied. I would not call that successful. Again if you consider pointing out failure an insult. I think that you are going to be very insulted for a long time about a lot of things that have to do with usapa.
cleardirect
Veteran
- Joined
- May 24, 2008
- Messages
- 6,234
- Reaction score
- 9,749
6 month limit on DFR. We are well past that time. It has been a year since ALPA left the property. Time to let go of the boogeyman.
The biggest issue that I personally feel USAPA violated the TA with was the handling of the furloughed East recalled to the West then recalled back East when furloughed from West, and the furloughing of West pilots prior to all newhires. Now I understand there is a grievence for the newhire issue, but there should have been strong, very vocal opposition from USAPA immediately upon the furlough notices. Instead they were more concerned with the precedence of getting those 6 back East and somehow affirming DOH, in violation of the TA.
A DFR has been filed against ALPA by the MDA Pilots. Had Prater held the Nic list one more day the West pilots would have filed a DFR against ALPA, but the West ALPA MEC was reluctant to sue the mothership. Frankly, I would have threatened a lawsuit at the forming of the Rice committee, and served at Wye River! Those....insert explative here.....failed the West pilots almost a grieviously as USAPA. Why do you think the Nic was delivered to the company at the 11th hour just prior to the NMB vote? If they had not delivered the West would have had an open and shut DFR against them, and they knew it!!! They held that list knowing they were doing the West harm and yes a DFR should have been filed!!
I am sure ALPA is watching, but will wait until after Addington to determine if they can get back on property, at which time I hope the East and West do join up and develope a suitable alternative to ALPA.
- Status
Similar threads
