US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/21-4/28

[nostradamus]

Sorry dude, ...................

no further questions, your honor.

 

[Metroyet]

ALPA equals USAPA. No the East pilots removed alpa after their denial of our recall efforts and their receivership strategy.

Is the Nic evaded?

Show me the wounds from your staple marks, sir. There are none.

Are you a member of the union you are accusing of unfair representation sir and if not why? (provide your own shovel)

Yes, ALPA does equal usapa. Meaning the Nic. is it. Period. Spare me the revisionist history, nobody buys it and it just makes your side look that much more desperate and guilty.

Is the Nic evaded? Nope. You'll see that here shortly.

No staple mark wounds yet compliments of the United States legal system. Rest assured, with out that you guys would have giddily stapled every west pilot beneath your most junior 1999 hire/2year LOS pink slip holder. I don't need a crystal ball to see what usapa had in store for the West.

My favorite:

Am I a member of USAPA? Nope. No Way. Never. Impossible. Why?

Because I don't work for US Airways. That's why. Because entire families are affected by this, it would be naive of the East to think that only AMW pilots are well versed in the situation. It's not rocket science to understand what's happening here.

(sorry, forgot my shovel)

 

[Metroyet]

no further questions, your honor.

You guys are easily baited. Just so we're clear, I'm 43 years old. I grew up on the West Coast...that's how we speak. I also occasionally say words like "bitchin'" and "Rad". It's a west coast thing. I know you all love to imaging the West guys as snot nosed kids, but it just ain't true "Bro".

 

[Waketurbulence]

Snoop, Nos, eastus, and every eastie,
Not that you will take any advise, but you really should spend less time on these boards and more time reading the court doc's.

The answers to most of your questions are there for you to see.

Today in court, another nail was hammered into the usapa coffin.

Usapa has no defense and it's getting worse for them with each ruling.

You need to read, and get prepared.

By the sick look on Cleary's face today after the hearing, I think he is starting to get it.

 

[luvn737s]

Noster sums it up well, how can you claim unfair representation when you refuse to be represented and refuse to participate?

Hopefully this will be the last time this has to be re-explained:

When you decide to get into the union business, you have an obligation to represent everyone, members and nonmembers alike regardless of their level of participation, or their opposition to your policies. When they become delinquent in dues/fees, they can be discharged from the company. Then and only then (with a few exceptions for religious objectors) are you free of your obligation to fairly represent their interests.

USAPA only needed to have the foresight to include the west pilots from the inception of USAPA and include their interests in the crafting of the C&BL's of USAPA to have reasonable plausible deniability that USAPA's prime reason for existence was to marginalize the west pilots through leveraging the east pilots greater numbers and nullify the Nicolau award.

All of USAPA's behavior points to exclusion of west interests, regardless of whether or not the west wanted to play nice.

Bradfords pride kept USAPA from earning respect.

 

[exB717Flyer]

100% incorrect. when Johnnie Mac was organizing his own DOA union, AWAPA (not to be confused with AWAPPA), guess who he hired as his attorney? Lee Seham.

I have no idea if that's true but in any case it's irrelevent since I was referring to Johnny Mac as our MEC Chairman. AWAPA was just as ill-conceived (though not law-breaking) as USAPA.

 

[wopr21]

How can a union represent those who don't pay dues?

Union representation comes from the membership up not the leadership down. You elect leaders to do what the membership desires. It is the leaderships job to do the will of the people ( membership ).

Its the same logic as saying I didn't vote, but I'm going to take you to court because I disagree with the out come.

Common sense and values must be restored or we will all parish.

wopr

 

[Freighterguynow]

Yes, ALPA does equal usapa. Meaning the Nic. is it. Period.

Which also means Separate Operations, Membership Ratification with no time line. Period.

 

[ussnark]

What if Sully voted for ALPA? He was a big supporter you know.

How do you know?

 

[cleardirect]

Which also means Separate Operations, Membership Ratification with no time line. Period.

The judge addressed that issue in court yesterday.

The words contempt, and damages were spoken. Judge Wake is well aware of the final solution the east has in mind. It would be entertaining to see Cleary frog marched out of CLT by federal marshals under order from a federal judge.

But hang on to that dream. It is about all the usapa has left.

 

[cleardirect]

The bad acts by west pilots have a great bearing. The nic is not on trial, that would be your strong point, but it is not admissible.

You say alpa is not relevant, the nic is not relevant, the bad acts of the america west pilots are not relevent and the attorney Seeham is not relevant. Sulley and Skiles are not relevant.

Is the attorney and USAPA allowed to show up in court that day, or are you going to trial without them?

Nos,

Are you beginning to understand the pickle that usapa and Seham are in? That what ever weak and deflective defense they had. The judge has removed.

I posted the entire MIL #6. I see you failed to re-quote that in your post and failed to accept the judges words. He found that bad acts have no bearing. The judge said that he does not have the time or inclination to relitigate the Nicolau, or the we will not second guess the arbitrators decision.

The judge said that ALPA is not a party to this litigation. That pre certification has some bearing but the plaintiffs can not rely solely on that. So after ALPA was voted off by the east. It was all about what usapa did not ALPA. So ALPA becomes irrelevant.

The judge also shot down 8000 pages and 40 CD’s of usapa “evidenceâ€￾ and two expert witnesses. He was not impressed with the “gamesâ€￾ they were playing or how they were handling this case. The judge did not like the document dump and mining expedition that Seham had set up.

Seham will or should be irrelevant at trial. Usapa is spending huge dollars on a PHL lawyer named Brengle. He is suppose to be the trial litigator.

Sulley and Skiles. They are listed as History and the inequities of Nicolau. Since we will not relitigate the Nicolau they become irrelevant to this case.

So Seham, Brengle, the named defendants and one usapa rep can show up in court and put on your best defense. The problem is that usapa and Seham have no defense. The appeals court is not going to be any more sympathetic then the federal judge.

May 15- 16 we should have an answer to this.

 

[westcoastflyer]

The judge addressed that issue in court yesterday.

The words contempt, and damages were spoken. Judge Wake is well aware of the final solution the east has in mind. It would be entertaining to see Cleary frog marched out of CLT by federal marshals under order from a federal judge.

But hang on to that dream. It is about all the usapa has left.

Judge Wake will have the authority to implement the rulings to be handed down. The whole idea of separate ratification by both sides (there are no longer "two sides") is ludicrous. Both sides would had to have been sufficiently happy with the award, which is nearly an impossibility. Judge Wake has already alluded to this. So, it will be time for the group, as a whole, to have the maturity and integrity to move forward after the trial, for the common good of all. And please, stop the whining about an appeal already.

 

[toganoflex]

For the east guys who don't bother to keep up with the litigation, here's a quick score on the Motions in Limine:

Leonidas: 5 granted (56%), 1 denied (11%), 3 TBA today (33%)

USAPA: 3 granted (9%), 29 denied (88%), 1 TBA today (3%)

 

[toganoflex]

Can any of you USAPA fans tell me where all the updates are? I seem to remember USAPA touting itself as an "electronic union" but I haven't seen anything of substance lately.

Why?

Same situation as with Nic. The direction was not favorable to the east and, instead of keeping its constituents informed and prepared for an unfavorable outcome, the east MEC (and now USAPA) played dumb and continued to paint a rosy picture.

And, of course, after the decision was rendered the east leadership showed utter surprise and shock and looked to project the blame onto a senile old man and greedy west pilots.


And guess what, its happening again.

 

[cleardirect]

Document 372
DEFENDANT USAPA’S MEMORANDUM IN OPPOSITION
TO PLAINTIFFS’ MOTION TO COMPEL USAPA OFFICERS TO
APPEAR FOR TRIAL


So what is Seham and usapa trying to hide? Why doesn’t the leadership of usapa want to tell their story to the jury? Inform the people of Arizona what great union defenders they are. That the usapa leadership is standing tall for the rights of all unions around the country.

Could it be under oath the truth will come out? Could it be that certain questions do not want to be answered by the founders of this new association?