US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/21-4/28

[BoeingBoy]

So then, I am a member of a gym, or social club, or a church, which rents space from a landlord. The people that run the organization stop paying rent and just close up shop. The landlord still has an obligation to let me on the premises even though I am not a signatory to the lease?

Yeah, right.

Nope, the landlord has a contract with the club/ect., not you. So you have no rights to force the landlord to allow you access . Your rights to use the property are contained in a separate contract between you and the club/etc. Likewise, the landlord can't come after you for the rent since their rental contract isn't with you.

A better example is buying a condo at the beach to be used as a rental. You hire a management company to manage the rental - taking reservations, collecting rent, arranging needed repairs, etc. If a workman does repairs but the management company goes out of business the repairman can collect their money from you because the management company functioned as your agent.

Look at your contract - it's between the company and "Airline Pilots in the employ of...". ALPA, USAPA, or Joe's Pilot Union is just the agent of the pilots.

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

Transition agreement.

Separate ops until a collective bargaining agreement. If alpa was at the helm or USAPA, there would still be separate operations until a joint contract was agreed upon. Did either side provide an olive branch, yes East pilots did at the Wye River conference. Has the west modified their strategy, no.

Analogies are like excuses, everyone has one and they all have the same biological characteristics.

 

[toganoflex]

Did either side provide an olive branch, yes East pilots did at the Wye River conference.

No, the east did no such thing. The east wanted the west to dig them out of the hole they put themselves in by not negotiating a list. The east gambled with Nic and got their butts handed to them and they wanted the west to fix things for them.

Its like the east suing the west, losing, then asking the west to settle.

Uh uh.

 

[luvn737s]

I will add my advice to the west pilots, that you attend the proceedings wearing your finest and looking your best- suit and tie, or at least a sport coat at a minimum. I would advise against wearing your uniform, as you are not on duty.

From the PHX BPR meeting update :

Uniforms
The West representatives attended the meeting in “civilian clothesâ€￾ instead of our uniforms. While this act was not done out of spite, a few reps took umbrage by our perceived lack of respect. Miraculously, on the second day of the BPR, new Union Operating Manual (UOM) language appeared on the floor for discussion regarding the wearing of the uniform when engaged in union business. How coincidental…

A discussion ensued that lasted approximately 45 minutes and, with a rough estimate, cost the members about $1,500. In our opinion, it was inappropriate to use valuable time to discuss such an issue. The West representatives promptly agreed to the motion in order to move on to more important topics.

Subsequently, the PHX domicile, via resolution, has precluded its representatives from wearing the uniform while conducting union business in PHX.
To put this issue to rest and to compromise with everybody, we have decided to wear the uniform during BPR meetings and our “civiesâ€￾ while in PHX.

So to be a "good union pilot" you have to violate the FOM and wear the uniform while conducting union business off-duty. You're giving good advice in this instance Nosty. Hope Bradford doesn't find out.

 

[Waketurbulence]

Transition agreement.

Separate ops until a collective bargaining agreement. If alpa was at the helm or USAPA, there would still be separate operations until a joint contract was agreed upon. Did either side provide an olive branch, yes East pilots did at the Wye River conference. Has the west modified their strategy, no.

Analogies are like excuses, everyone has one and they all have the same biological characteristics.

This is standard for you nos. You like to quote things, now you quote the transition agreement. Why don't you quote section 4A of the agreement?

I'll tell you what, here it is...

IV. Seniority List Integration
A. The seniority lists of America West pilots and
US Airways pilots will be integrated in accordance
with ALPA Merger Policy and submitted to the
Airline Parties for acceptance. The Airline
Parties will accept such integrated seniority list,
including conditions and restrictions, if such list
and the conditions and restrictions comply with
the following criteria:


You and usapy think you can pick and choose what sections you want to honor?

Do you think a jury will understand what this means along with Doug Parker's letter ACCEPTING the list?

If the West prevails in this trial, I would suspect the injunctive releif could dismiss the single contract provision in the T/A. OR We may ask the judge to IMMEDIATLY IMPLEMENT the NIC Seniority List.

 

[nostradamus]

Your comments on the transition agreement please.

Your replies to my quote was tantamount to the Youngstown tune up.

My post;

""Transition agreement.

Separate ops until a collective bargaining agreement. If alpa was at the helm or USAPA, there would still be separate operations until a joint contract was agreed upon. Did either side provide an olive branch, yes East pilots did at the Wye River conference. Has the west modified their strategy, no.""


Your replies please.

 

[Waketurbulence]

Your replies please.

OK,
You obviously have not read any of the court documents. You really should.

Judge Wake clearly understands the transition agreement, AND he clearly understands why this case is in his court. It is the actions of the east pilots AND usapa.

I say again, IF the West prevails, expect some injunctive remedy.

He will NOT want to see us back in court over this down the road. He will NOT allow the east to continue to hijack the process.

You can stick you fingers in your ears and go la la la la all day long because you don't want to hear it, but the Judge is no fool.

Indefinite seperate ops? Nope, ain't gonna happen.

 

[nostradamus]

OK,
You obviously have not read any of the court documents. You really should.

Judge Wake clearly understands the transition agreement, AND he clearly understands why this case is in his court. It is the actions of the east pilots AND usapa.

I say again, IF the West prevails, expect some injunctive remedy.

He will NOT want to see us back in court over this down the road. He will NOT allow the east to continue to hijack the process.

There is a seniority award, then there is a joint contract, this agreement leads to joint operations. Who is hostage and whom are the hostage takers? Name a time the west wavered on the seniority and were ready to negotiate. I will help you, there was never an incident of this.

 

[700UW]

You all ready negotiated, failed to reach an agreement, BOTH sides AGREED to Arbitration.

Even after the Nicalou told the East to change their position, they didnt, you lost and now that you dont like the award you want to take your bat and ball and run away and not play anymore.

Why should the West change anything when the East wont honor their own words anyhow?

 

[nostradamus]

You all ready negotiated, failed to reach an agreement, BOTH sides AGREED to Arbitration.

Even after the Nicalou told the East to change their position, they didnt, you lost and now that you dont like the award you want to take your bat and ball and run away and not play anymore.

Why should the West change anything when the East wont honor their own words anyhow?

""Transition agreement.""

Firewall, click here. alpa = USAPA

 

[700UW]

A R B I T R A T I O N, B I N D I N G.

 

[700UW]

Ah once again you intend to attack the poster instead of sticking to the issue.

Sorry never took a bathroom break in a passengers bag, sorry to disappoint you.

And how many negotiations, grievances and schooling have you been too in pursuit of bettering things in regards to collective bargaining?

And when I left US I was a stock clerk, not utility.

So try to stick to the topic at hand instead of a feeble attempt at insults since you cant defend yourself and your position.

And you know defamation of character is enforceable on the internet, better back up your claims....

Last time I checked, a person's job has nothing to do with their skills in regards to the union movement.

 

[Waketurbulence]

""Transition agreement.""

Yes, the TRANSITION AGREEMENT.

The document that outlines how to merge the two operations.

The document BOTH sides negotiated and AGREED to.

The one that your union conveniently chooses to ignore.

The one that you probably haven't read yourself.

The document you are citing and the ONE section you happen to think will save the day.

The same document that says this...:

IV. Seniority List Integration
A. The seniority lists of America West pilots and
US Airways pilots will be integrated in accordance
with ALPA Merger Policy and submitted to the
Airline Parties for acceptance. The Airline
Parties will accept such integrated seniority list,
including conditions and restrictions, if such list
and the conditions and restrictions comply with
the following criteria:


That one! Right?

 

[nostradamus]

The one that your union conveniently chooses to ignore.

My point sir, is you choose to conveniently ignore, the separate operations, until an agreement. Please refer to the firewall video of jack stephen. alpa = USAPA.

Your witness sir.

 

[toganoflex]

From a few level-headed east pilots:
------------------------------------------
Fundamentally not possible

“This past year has produced successes that were fundamentally not possible had we not taken the steps to build a highly democratic, independent union.â€
-Mike Cleary – illegitimate USAPA President

Looking back on the past year we’re at a loss to find any of the successes Mr. Cleary mentions in his latest message to the pilots. We also find it laughable that he refers to the Association as highly democratic when his election as USAPA President was overturned due to the blatant exclusion of qualified candidates. Even the election re-run risks review by the Department of Labor as the only fair method would be to hold open nominations open to all members in good standing. Unless this is done, we have no idea how many candidates were illegally turned away by the dictatorial regime of which Mr. Cleary held office.

From our perspective, USAPA’s birth wasn’t about finding a long-term representational solution for the entire pilot group. It was solely formed to disadvantage the minority west pilot group by evading the binding Nicolau Award. Founding member Steven Bradford even admitted this in a recent letter disclosed as evidence in the Addington lawsuit. Many east pilots weren’t concerned with the name of the new union or how it was formed as they were fully enthralled with the fantasy of a DOH seniority list and a quick industry leading contract. As the one year anniversary quietly passed last week, none of the campaign promises are even close to seeing the light of day. This shortsighted approach to forming a new union by USAPA’s founders has only served to keep both pilot groups at industry lagging wages and has green-lighted management’s complete abrogation of the Transition Agreement and each side’s collective bargaining agreements.

Let’s review USAPA’s year one accomplishments (if you can call them that):

- May 2008. At least three west pilots sought appointment to the interim PHX or LAS representative positions but were denied or dissuaded after being asked to publicly affirm USAPA’s date-of-hire policy (which is illegal for a union to require). USAPA’s goal was to drag out the illusion of a utopian existence while working to keep any west pilots from interfering with their true mission.

- May 2008. USAPA filed a malicious lawsuit against 24 former America West pilots. The lawsuit was engineered to bankrupt the organizations that were founded to protect the legal rights of the former America West pilots and to intimidate pilots into refraining from speaking negatively of the new union. USAPA purported that the lawsuit was about ceasing illegal acts of sabotage, yet USAPA admittedly never sought the assistance of law enforcement. Instead, they filed in civil (not criminal) court and sought to inflict financial harm in the form of legal bills against individual pilots. Fortunately, this cowardly and underhanded ploy by USAPA’s self-appointed leadership backfired as the lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice only six weeks after it was filed.

- June 2008. The Company announces plans to furlough 10% of the pre-merger America West pilots and all of the new-hires from the east operation. This announcement came as a result of skyrocketing fuel prices combined with a union that spent no effort demanding accountability of the Company for their announced decision. USAPA’s leadership all but publicly celebrated the furloughs as none of the pre-merger US Airways pilots were affected.. While other airlines spent that summer negotiating industry-leading furlough mitigation agreements, USAPA negotiated one backroom deal to save six east pilots on the west list from furlough. Once the six East pilots were saved from furlough, USAPA spent the remainder of the summer fruitlessly attempting to fight on behalf of a handful of east captains who were being trained as a result of deliberately wasting fuel. We find this act particularly deplorable considering that many members of the “frequently furloughed†club (including the current NAC Chairman) held leadership positions in USAPA at the time. Furlough mitigation certainly seemed like a noble cause when it was their heads on the chopping block, but now that it was somebody else’s, the furloughs were acceptable.

- July 2008. In response to USAPA’s “Be A Good Union Pilot†campaign that ordered pilots to intentionally waste as much fuel as possible, the Company took a handful of the top offenders and asked them to attend fuel conservation training. USAPA first ordered that the pilots refuse to attend the training, but when that brilliant effort failed, USAPA spent an exorbitant amount of money on a full page USA Today advertisement that accused the Company of pressuring pilots to fly with unsafe fuel reserves. While the ad initially gained traction in the media, the ploy was quickly seen for what it was and faded from public interest. The result? The “Good Union Pilots†still attended their fuel conservation training and one pilot publicly suggested (in a CLT crew news session) that any pilot who flew with less than adequate fuel because he felt pressured by management was in the wrong profession. In a final display of ignorance, the USAPA BPR later demanded a formal apology from the Company for conducting the training. The result? Silence as the Company felt no obligation or need to respond to a neutered organization. TheEye certainly does not condone management’s use of the training department to mete out discipline, but the fuel fiasco is a glowing example of an amateurish organization that lacks the fundamental wherewithal to effectively work for the benefit of its membership.

- September 2008. After months of ignoring hundreds of membership applications submitted by west pilots, USAPA violates its own constitution by using the BPR to approve the applications. Immediately following the pending applications (the next morning) USAPA hand picks four pilots to face Section 29 termination proceedings for non-payment of dues. The four pilots all challenged the termination attempt and the Company sustained the challenges on the basis that there was no mechanism for which PHX/LAS pilots to become members. The company informed USAPA that it would refuse to enforce the union security provisions of the AWA contract until such time the USAPA Constitution was amended to permit PHX / LAS pilots to join the Association. USAPA appealed the decision to an arbitrator.

- September 2008. Several west pilots file a lawsuit alleging USAPA breached its duty to fairly represent the former America West pilots. Despite continual assertions that this lawsuit has “no legal merit whatsoeverâ€, the case has progressed swiftly through the court system and goes to trial this week in Phoenix.

- October 2008. USAPA delivers its DOH fantasy list to US Airways management. The company’s apparent response? “We already have a listâ€. This response was reaffirmed (under oath) by Vice President of Labor Relations Al Hemenway during his deposition for the Addington case.

- February 2009. After delaying the appointment of a representative for as long as possible, USAPA finally appoints a west representative to the BPR. Within a couple of weeks of appointment, USAPA’s Politburo-Minister of Information Scott Theuer(PMI) decides to once again violate the federal rights of this new pilot representative by refusing to publish a local domicile update. PMI Theuer did publish one update but only when accompanied by a rebuttal letter from his office. The censoring of a legally elected representative by one’s own union is so rare we couldn’t document any past practice. In fact, the former bargaining agent (ALPA) never censored the local council updates of the Philadelphia representatives who continually published crass and inappropriate updates to their pilots.

- March 2009. USAPA runs its first election for national officers and purposely excludes at least one legally nominated pilot from the ballot.

- April 2009. USAPA’s single reason for existence (circumventing a binding arbitrated award) goes on trial. Despite USAPA’s original claim that this lawsuit has “no legal merit whatsoeverâ€, the Court set a trial date with speed unheard of in the civil system.

Now let’s review the status of USAPA’s core campaign promises:

Where is the date-of-hire seniority list?

This question will be answered in the coming weeks in federal court. If USAPA prevails in court, they will then have to convince the Company to toss the accepted Nicolau list and replace it with their grossly unfair quasi-DOH list. The Company has already indicated under oath that it has no plans to accept any other list than the one that it currently has, and is clearly satisfied with the current status of separate operations under the existing contracts.

So the short answer to the question is – the quasi-DOH seniority list resides as a PDF file on the USAPA website, which we believe to be its final and binding resting place.

Where is our contract?

It doesn’t matter how good your “professional†negotiator is if you lack leverage. It’s clear to anybody paying attention that USAPA and its purported team of experts have lead the pilot group further away from a contract over the past year than we were the day ALPA left the property. Expect more of the same (big promises & zero results) until there are some major changes on our side of the table.

Where’s my vote?

Pilot ratification seemed to be a large selling point for USAPA during their campaign, particularly after the “Let My Daddy Vote†campaign that preceded the ratification of LOA 93. A brief review of the USAPA Constitution indicates that pilot ratification works entirely in the same fashion now as it did under ALPA. Consider the following excerpt from the USAPA Constitution:

“Only those ratification ballots approved by the Board of Pilot Representatives by a majority vote shall be forwarded to the affected membership for a ratification vote.â€

Under USAPA, the BPR can and will refuse to forward an agreement to the membership for a ratification vote (entirely) at its discretion.

What’s even more unbelievable is that USAPA didn’t send its crown jewel quasi-DOH seniority list with conditions and restrictions out for membership ratification.

At least we rid ourselves of the overpriced attorneys who were living large off of our dues dollars!

Has anybody seen USAPA’s LM-2 from last year?

On that form, USAPA disclosed that it paid Seham, Seham, Meltz, and Peterson (Lee Seham’s law firm) $187,863 for the period beginning 4/18/08 through and including 6/30/2008. If you do the math, that’s about $2,500 per day. At that rate, we would expect Mr. Seham’s firm to collect nearly $1 million from USAPA during this fiscal year. We estimate that the 2008 figure will be much higher. The $2,500 per day rate does not take into account current litigation expenses (USAPA is a defendant in two DFR lawsuits), arbitration expenses, or contract negotiations. USAPA’s litigation expenses alone are rumored to be already in excess of $2 million. It is quite possible that Seham’s firm will collect at least $3 million in dues dollars from US Airways pilots this fiscal year, which is about 30% of USAPA’s income (assuming that everybody was paying their dues/fees in full every month). Because Mr. Seham is the managing partner of his firm, he will likely pocket the lion’s share of that $3 million.

We look forward to investigating this issue further with USAPA files this year’s LM-2 with the Department of Labor.

As you can see, Mr. Clearly must reside in some alternate universe if he believes the USAPA experiment has been successful. Even the most ardent supporters know in their hearts that it has been an utter failure from day one. After multiple law firms turned away their business due to the weakness of their case, they retained a pro-management firm with a union busting history to take on their lost cause.

At some point, the silent majority on the east needs to take the reigns away from those that seek to destroy their careers. It’s time the rational east and west pilots unify and silence the voice of Mr. Cleary and his minions once and for all.

The future can be bright, but we must take control to make it happen.