US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 12/16-22

[Phoenix]

Deflect, distract. USAPA is the CBA no one else. AWAPPA has no place in this conversation. USAPA is the one that has to perform. They have the responsibility to represent.

USAPA has a contractual lever to collect dues yet only 60% are paying. AWAPPA has no leverage yet many choose to donate money to them. Even with section 29 USAPA can not get people to pay.

USAPA has a monopoly but still can not get many supporters. I would guess that number is going to plummet if/when the judge rules that the Nicolau is the list. As a matter of fact that number may flip. Most of the west and a minority of the east will be members.

Conversation?

Congress has an approval rating of 18%. Bush 38%. AWAPPAA claims 40%. Obama was elected with 52%. The Pope has an approval rating of 57% among Catholics who attend weekly services, and USAPA has 60%.

So a lot of people are not happy. Its a trend.

 

[luvthe9]

You should have thought of that before you tried to steal the jobs of 40% of the pilot group.

You people really don't get, NOBODY wants you job out west, feel free to keep what you had before the merger. Your carreer expectations are the same. You are the one's that think your entitled to east metal.

 

[traderjake]

You people really don't get, NOBODY wants you job out west, feel free to keep what you had before the merger. Your carreer expectations are the same. You are the one's that think your entitled to east metal.

First of all, I'm an East pilot.

Putting an East Reserve F/O ahead (on the seniority list) of a West block holding Captain is stealing that Captain's job.

Putting a furloughed East pilot ahead of a working West pilot is stealing that working pilot's job.

I say so. The arbitrator said so. The Delta arbitrator said so. When this goes to court the judge will say so.

 

[luvthe9]

First of all, I'm an East pilot.

Putting an East Reserve F/O ahead (on the seniority list) of a West block holding Captain is stealing that Captain's job.

Putting a furloughed East pilot ahead of a working West pilot is stealing that working pilot's job.

I say so. The arbitrator said so. The Delta arbitrator said so. When this goes to court the judge will say so.

There are restrictions to safe guard west positions, if you have not read that. Is that you Chip or lance!!!!!

 

[Phoenix]

First of all, I'm an East pilot.

Putting an East Reserve F/O ahead of a West block holding West Captain on the seniority list is stealing that Captain's job.

Putting a furloughed East pilot ahead of a working West pilot is stealing that working pilot's job.

I say so. The arbitrator said so. The Delta arbitrator said so. When this goes to court the judge will say so.

None of what you are saying occurred.

<_< Were you a regular on ALPA FPL? Or let me guess, a shoe in for an ALPA national slot?!!

 

[traderjake]

None of what you are saying occurred.

<_< Were you a regular on ALPA FPL? Or let me guess, a shoe in for an ALPA national slot?!!

Did our arbitration go DOH?

Did the Delta abitration go DOH?

No, they did not because the arbitrators saw the fundamental unfairness of Date of Hire.

When USAPA tries to negotiate a DOH seniortiy list the judge who hears the law suit will say the same.

Check my past posts. I was a critic of ALPA. USAPA is worst

 

[Tiger 1050]

You people really don't get, NOBODY wants you job out west, feel free to keep what you had before the merger. Your carreer expectations are the same. You are the one's that think your entitled to east metal.

That's just it Luv. My job out west no longer exists! It forever changed on May 19th 2005. I do not blame the east pilots for this. I blame business as usual in the airline world. Having said that, however, I find it completely unfair that you wish to recoup as much of your career as possible at my expense. Saying things like "Nobody wants your job out west" is nothing short of ignorant. How exactly do I keep what I had before the merger when the merger itself fundamentally changed the airline I work for?

In the end I suspect that once again we'll find a neutral third party make a statement regarding the arbitrated seniority award. This time it'll be a more permanent statement mind you. Wanna guess what he'll say? Nicolau says this is the fair. Three different arbiters involved in the NWA/DAL integration say this is fair. Even the pilots of Atlas/Polar said their list is the list. Soon I bet we'll hear Judge Wake make similar statements. Seems as though only the east pilots are the ones with a different opinion. Frankly I feel bad for you guys. Seham really sold you a bag of dog s**t. I honestly hope you guys go after him for malpractice. I am not making a prediction here but realize that if the court wishes it could move to disbar Seham for his "counsel" to USAPA. Yeah. It's that serious... Having your chief counsel selected as a potential witness in a case he's trying to litigate is not a good thing. Do not allow your desire for something better than ALPA to suck you into believing USAPA and its team of lawyers is infallible.

 

[Frank Bama]

That particular line of thought has always had a limited shelf life. The expiration date is closing in quickly, and the process is targeting east as well as west. Those on the east who have sucked at ALPA's teat for years, now have to live with their legacy and who refuse to pay up will find themselves met on a jetway in the near future by a CP with a law enforcement escort and handed a dues non-revokable check-off agreement and promissory note for the amount of back dues. The choice will be made there and then: sign now, or turn in the company issued property and ID card. It will happen to the self-righteous objectors from both sides. My guess is that all but one or two will opt to sign. Once the news gets out, USAPA will have no problem getting people to pay.


Absolutely one of the most stupid things I've seen on this website. An east fantasy that could not ever happen. Dream on.



I don't think the number will flip so much as that the west will then begin full participation in USAPA. Those on the east most affected by Nicolau will not necessarily withdraw support from the union. After all, the union did not, in any way, shape, or form, offer any guarantees about the Nicolau list. My guess is that, if the economy turns upward and other opportunities present themselves, a great number of the affected east pilots will split for greener pastures. I know I would. In fact, many left within weeks of the publication of the Nicolau shame and are happily spinning turbine blades elsewhere.




First, if you think the economy will turn around before this seniority issue is settled, wake up!

Second, I hate to break this news, but NO ONE is going to hire an Easthole. You guys have trouble getting jumpseats!
There are no "greener pastures" for you guys. This mess is all you have, and you just don't get it.
[/color]

 

[trunion]

That particular line of thought has always had a limited shelf life. The expiration date is closing in quickly, and the process is targeting east as well as west. Those on the east who have sucked at ALPA's teat for years, now have to live with their legacy and who refuse to pay up will find themselves met on a jetway in the near future by a CP with a law enforcement escort and handed a dues non-revokable check-off agreement and promissory note for the amount of back dues. The choice will be made there and then: sign now, or turn in the company issued property and ID card. It will happen to the self-righteous objectors from both sides. My guess is that all but one or two will opt to sign. Once the news gets out, USAPA will have no problem getting people to pay.


Absolutely one of the most stupid things I've seen on this website. An east fantasy that could not ever happen. Dream on.



I don't think the number will flip so much as that the west will then begin full participation in USAPA. Those on the east most affected by Nicolau will not necessarily withdraw support from the union. After all, the union did not, in any way, shape, or form, offer any guarantees about the Nicolau list. My guess is that, if the economy turns upward and other opportunities present themselves, a great number of the affected east pilots will split for greener pastures. I know I would. In fact, many left within weeks of the publication of the Nicolau shame and are happily spinning turbine blades elsewhere.




First, if you think the economy will turn around before this seniority issue is settled, wake up!

Second, I hate to break this news, but NO ONE is going to hire an Easthole. You guys have trouble getting jumpseats!
There are no "greener pastures" for you guys. This mess is all you have, and you just don't get it.
[/color]

I wanted to keep your post intact, so I replied before you reconsidered and cleaned it up.
No jumpseat problems here...I hope you are not too disappointed.

By the way, it's USAPA.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Even the pilots of Atlas/Polar said their list is the list.

May want to do some research before you quote the Atlas/Polar seniority award. The #1 Polar guy was put on the list DOH with junior pilots slotted in a straight ratio to the bottom.

 

[UtterlyUdder]

There are restrictions to safe guard west positions, if you have not read that. Is that you Chip or lance!!!!!

:unsure: It could be Jack S or Boeingboy, or even me. h34r:

 

[cleardirect]

You people really don't get, NOBODY wants you job out west, feel free to keep what you had before the merger. Your carreer expectations are the same. You are the one's that think your entitled to east metal.

Tiger 1050 is absolutely correct. This merger fundamentally changed both companies. There is no more you keep what you had, I keep what we had.

The east had 1700 furloughs did you keep those? No. You now have 25 new 190’s that you did not have before the merger. Those happened because of the merger. Those are block hours additional to the east.

If the east is so set on letting us keep what we had. How about all of you go to the USAPA leadership and demand that they go to the company an force the company to move all of the west block hours back to west metal. Everyday I see 4-5-6 east airplanes all day long flying west routes. PHX-MCO, PHX-TPA, CUN-PHX. That is our flying. If we got to keep what we brought we would not be taking as many furloughs now.

So it is naive to say keep what we had. There is no more yours and mine. It all belongs to the company.

The conditions and restrictions are a joke. The judge thought they were a joke.

 

[Tiger 1050]

May want to do some research before you quote the Atlas/Polar seniority award. The #1 Polar guy was put on the list DOH with junior pilots slotted in a straight ratio to the bottom.

Sorry I guess no one can be trusted around here. Myself included... Here is the quote:

Q-What impact or change, if any, will a transition to Teamsters representation have on the arbitrated seniority list?

A-All agreements will remain in effect. The arbitrated seniority list is complete and cannot be changed. It is the list we will merge with.

Sounds a lot like the list is the list to me! Maybe your reading comprehension is more advanced though...

Here's the link to the website for the Teamster's campaign:

http://www.atlasforteamsters.com/

Scrole down in the left hand margin and look for the section entitled Q and A.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

May want to do some research before you quote the Atlas/Polar seniority award. The #1 Polar guy was put on the list DOH with junior pilots slotted in a straight ratio to the bottom.

Nice spin - one of the better ones, I'd say.

So we have one Atlas/Polar pilot placed at the the top of the combined list because of his DOH. The remaining pilots - roughly 975 - are then slotted in relative position.

Are you trying to intimate that this means it is a DOH list?

Boy howdy! That's a real knee slapper!

 

[Tiger 1050]

Sorry Freight I thought you were debating my statement that the list was the list for the Atlas/Polar guys. I completely missed your suggestion that their list is DOH... However it seems relative to me. Huh. Funny we should disagree. :huh: