Us Airways May Cut 914 Utility Jobs

[700UW]

Very well said Clue!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Very well said Clue!

[post="228362"][/post]​

Ditto...

ALPA has been outsourcing flying jobs since there has been express-type feed, but it's always been the many voting to keep as much as possible at the expense of the few. I guarantee that you if the company was demanding that all narrowbody flying go to MDA (something like the choice the IAM faces) you would see some that post here singing a different tune.

Jim

 

[Winglet]

Sure you can. I've put this to A320pilot every time the IAM issue comes up, but he never answers: Why is ALPA not willing to give up all narrowbody Airbus flying (to say, Mesa), since it can be accomplished more economically that having U pilots do the flying?

Heck, send 'em to Mesa, send 'em for MX in Alabama.

Oh. Because more than half the pilot group would lose their jobs. Which is why the IAM won't budge.

It's called "Racing to the bottom." Only, in U's case, they want folks to accept "sub-LCC" wages to work, and, for some, it's too much.

[post="228359"][/post]​

That's why A320pilot is willing for the CWA and IAM to acquiece to disproportionate concessions. Lakefield's no dummy. He gave the pilots a relative sweet deal to get them on his side and provide a base for attacking the other groups. My opinion is that there was AT LEAST another 35% that he could have fleeced off the pilots before starting real trouble. The pilots couldn't give hoot if Lakefield fired all the other employees and outsourced 'em . . . . . just as long as he left the pilots alone. In times like these, employee solidarity is a very rare virtue . . . . . and the managements know it.

 

[Phantom Fixer]

People,

USA320ClownMaster is dying for everyone to aquiece for one simple reason...It's his ONLY hope of remaining a Pilot with a six-figure income in todays world.

Contrary to what he's pumped out before about having other big paying flying options..We all know what a load of bunk that is. The market is flooded in every type of aviation job , regardless of what he may know , or whom he may know. The folks that have been furloughed from everywhere in the early stages have already snapped u the high paying gigs....and what's left is low paying commuter jobs ...and HE knows this as well as anyone , so his final option is to convince the rest here to fall on their own swords for him and those like him.

Next....regardless of what you do or how you vote?...the writing is on the wall for all at U. Lakefield comments and Davis's comments about U not showing a profit till 2007 with all the supposed concessions in place , will not garner any degree of investor confidence , thus U is doomed. The you have a Judge whom is there to protect the current creditors hearing this crap too....and just how is he supposed to react when the creditors are his focus and actual responsibility? 2 years without profits...and No investors in sight...This spells end of game (Liquidation) after the first of the year.

Lastly....Lets say for a moment that everyone falls on their sword for USA320DipThong's good....and lets say that Judge Mitchell ignores the long term prognosis of Lakefield and former CFO Davis...Just how long will the current creditors go without Demanding payment or taking back thier Aircraft? Then how long will it be before USA320HammerHead comes back crying to the few remaining pilots to work for $80 or $90k annually after the company needs a 6th or 7th round of concessions from them?. Remember this scenario is based on all Non-Pilots on the property having already voted away their jobs for him.

Face boys and girls...this puppy is done in a big way....enjoy your Holiday pay and whatever time you may have off ?...2005 is going to be a different year in terms of whom you are going to be working for..and for how much?

 

[Dog Wonder]

People that actually know A 320 Pilot would give him a job? What kind?

 

[robbedagain]

People that actually know A 320 Pilot would give him a job? What kind?

[post="228397"][/post]​

hey i know a mcdonalds job you know having to fly say hamburger happy meals from point to point b to point c using say the beech 1900 as a first officer!!!!

 

[USA320Pilot]

What's interesting is that many people insult others or "shoot the messenger" because they cannot dispute logic. US Airways' labor expense is not only about pay, but pay, benefits, and retirement for a total expense. One of the big issues is the employee to aircraft ratio.

Clue, your comment of "I see U's 737 pilots are at the bottom of the barrel. LUV's FAs make more than their U counterparts today much less post-concessions. So, they are not offering 'market rates'" is off base and only looks at TOS pay. If you review the company's S.1113© motion you will get a clearer picture and a better understanding of the economics.

At this point it appears that ALPA, the TWU x3, the CWA, and the AFA will have new agreements or TA's this week. That could leave the 3 IAM units as the only unions without an agreement, thus they could obtain even deeper cuts due to "imposition". What's sad is that this does not need to happen; however, according to court testimony, the IAM has not provided the company a single counterproposal. None, nada, nothing and we are just 5 days from the scheduled conslusion of the hearings.

How do you think the court will view this issue?

Why no union proposal? The union leadership prefers "imposition" due to politics. Every reader of this board should not be surprised with what is happening because the company and forum posters have told everybody this would occur.

Maybe it's time to move on...after all it's just a job.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

Clue, your comment of "I see U's 737 pilots are at the bottom of the barrel. LUV's FAs make more than their U counterparts today much less post-concessions. So, they are not offering 'market rates'" is off base and only looks at TOS pay. If you review the company's S.1113© motion you will get a clearer picture and a better understanding of the economics.

Here is a real clear view of the economics for 320:

You guys and gals "taking it in the shorts", so to speak, with regards to concessions are doing nothing more and nothing less than subsidizing incompetence.

There may be reasons why USAirways cannot get their system to run efficiently as, say, Southwest's. Hub and spoke, international flights, expensive airports like DCA and LGA all add something to the cost side of the equation.

By the same token, they add something to the revenue side of the equation.

There are reasons for U's ASM costs to be somewhat higher than WN's. There is no reason for it to be as much higher as it is, save for the total incompetence of management.

You have layers upon layers of management all sitting around worrying how to screw employees. What you are running out of, if rez hold time and baggage-delivery-to-the-carousel time is any indicator, is worker bees.

Not that it isn't already, but this so-called airline is really going to be an ugly sight when there are a bunch of managers and a bunch of know-it-all pilots and a few worker bees working for crumbs to try and make everything work.

And oh BTW I think I saw one of your little Embraer 170s at BTV the other day. Nice looking plane. I had to pick up a rent car there at the air terminal so I could drive it to Albany to hop my airline of choice back to sunny El Paso.

Which begs the question.....why would someone traveling on business, with an expense account picking up the tab.....drive to from Burlington to Albany to catch a 2 stop ALB-BWI-AUS-ELP rather than catch USAirways direct out of BTV?

Price was one consideration. Even when someone was paying for it, money I don't spend on airfare can be spent on something else. The walk up OW fare ALB-ELP was $313.80 after tax, title, and license. You guys wanted $1200-something out of BTV and I ended up changing planes twice and airlines once.

Attitude is another. The front line employees of USAirways are doing well considering their wages are being eviscerated right before their very eyes.....but there is a "we're whipped" atmosphere pervading among the folks I spoke to at res when I was looking at trying to book this recent trip.

The bottom line is most of you have all this figured out. The management of this line has been incompetent, deceitful, and they don't really deserve another chance. And even if they get one....I am not sure (despite 320's assurances) that they will prevail. It's like I told you all a year or so ago...this patient was needing radical disfiguring and risky surgery.....and it looks like they are electing another round of chemo.

 

[SpinDoc]

People,

Scot:
I would say that this poster is asking for Maize. He
is clearly attacking another poster without justifiction.

 

[ClueByFour]

Clue, your comment of "I see U's 737 pilots are at the bottom of the barrel. LUV's FAs make more than their U counterparts today much less post-concessions. So, they are not offering 'market rates'" is off base and only looks at TOS pay. If you review the company's S.1113© motion you will get a clearer picture and a better understanding of the economics.

Well, no. In the case of the pilots, assuming the info at airlinepilotpay.com is halfway correct, they pretty much have you from no worse than year 3, and that's only on the FO side. For that matter, it's entirely possible that LUV has 737 captains making more than a guy driving an A330.

Now, how about we have that discussion about "market rates" again, shall we? You have either accepted (ALPA) or are going to get abrogated into substantially less pay than LCCs. Saying otherwise is just spin. (oh, and it appears that the boys and girls at Alaska and Airtran are also ahead, for the most part, of the narrowbody pilot group at U--did these carriers become legacy overnight?). Not. Market. Rates.

Now, I could search for the AFA data which indicates the same thing, but it's becoming tiresome trying to slow the spin machine down.

As an aside, when I want creative fiction I prefer Tolkien, not the company's S1113 motion.

So, since you did not answer (again), I'll ask again--why should the company not outsource all narrowbody Airbus flying to Mesa? I mean, if it's more economical to repair those planes off campus, surely the boys and girls at Mesa will be willing to fly them for less than the U pilot group, and by your logic, they should.

 

[ClueByFour]

People,


Scot:
I would say that this poster is asking for Maize. He
is clearly attacking another poster without justifiction.

[post="228445"][/post]​

I suggest you utilize either the "ignore user" feature or the "report bad post" feature, in leiu of calling in public for a trip to the cornfield. YMMV. HTH. HAND.

 

[firstamendment]

Here is a real clear view of the economics for 320:

You guys and gals "taking it in the shorts", so to speak, with regards to concessions are doing nothing more and nothing less than subsidizing incompetence.

There may be reasons why USAirways cannot get their system to run efficiently as, say, Southwest's. Hub and spoke, international flights, expensive airports like DCA and LGA all add something to the cost side of the equation.

By the same token, they add something to the revenue side of the equation.

There are reasons for U's ASM costs to be somewhat higher than WN's. There is no reason for it to be as much higher as it is, save for the total incompetence of management.

You have layers upon layers of management all sitting around worrying how to screw employees. What you are running out of, if rez hold time and baggage-delivery-to-the-carousel time is any indicator, is worker bees.

Not that it isn't already, but this so-called airline is really going to be an ugly sight when there are a bunch of managers and a bunch of know-it-all pilots and a few worker bees working for crumbs to try and make everything work.

And oh BTW I think I saw one of your little Embraer 170s at BTV the other day. Nice looking plane. I had to pick up a rent car there at the air terminal so I could drive it to Albany to hop my airline of choice back to sunny El Paso.

Which begs the question.....why would someone traveling on business, with an expense account picking up the tab.....drive to from Burlington to Albany to catch a 2 stop ALB-BWI-AUS-ELP rather than catch USAirways direct out of BTV?

Price was one consideration. Even when someone was paying for it, money I don't spend on airfare can be spent on something else. The walk up OW fare ALB-ELP was $313.80 after tax, title, and license. You guys wanted $1200-something out of BTV and I ended up changing planes twice and airlines once.

Attitude is another. The front line employees of USAirways are doing well considering their wages are being eviscerated right before their very eyes.....but there is a "we're whipped" atmosphere pervading among the folks I spoke to at res when I was looking at trying to book this recent trip.

The bottom line is most of you have all this figured out. The management of this line has been incompetent, deceitful, and they don't really deserve another chance. And even if they get one....I am not sure (despite 320's assurances) that they will prevail. It's like I told you all a year or so ago...this patient was needing radical disfiguring and risky surgery.....and it looks like they are electing another round of chemo.

[post="228442"][/post]​

You are right on the money. And may I add that US Airways has been trying to define itself for 16 out of the 18 years I have been here. Sad. I am very happy to FINALLY have a plan B. I have until the summer to see if we are around. I can hang with unemployment till August. So letting this sucker play out is so less stressful.

 

[usfliboi]

well "good faith" can be twisted many ways. When a company is ready to fold, is getting rid of utility a valid option, is it fair, ist it in good faith. The answer is YES. My oh my , 700 your setting your little self up for such dissappointment....

 

[700UW]

Don't count your chickens before you eggs hatch.

You will be surprised, why don't you walk through the hangar without your SIDA badge and find out what is going on.

 

[Dizel8]

Don't worry, he will try to cross the picketline!