Us Airways May Cut 914 Utility Jobs
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
6% wage cut!!!!!!!! You sir have serious drug and/or alcohol problem, not to mention terrible in basic math!!! Going from about $25 to $19, how do you get just 6%? That was in the proposal I read!!! Maybe if the company gets their wish and cuts everybody but line maintenance and U is left with about 700 mechanics the 6% would come into play. And I have news for you they would still be paid less than their counterparts at LCC!!! :down: And no I do not plan to resign, I am riding this into the ground and then I plan to move on. Unlike some I have many friends in the business and will have no problem finding employment in the industry, and like a few have not burnt my bridges. 
No wonder you choose to fly out of LGA!!!
No wonder you choose to fly out of LGA!!!
OP
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #33
If "the planes are filthy and disgusting" this would reflect poorly on those workers assigned this duty. If people are not performing than that increases the desire to obtain quality work.
I know for fact that in stations like LAS and PHX contractors do a superlative job cleaning aircraft.
It does not support the unions desire to keep Utility work in-house if their performance provides aircraft to thecustomers that "are filthy and disgusting." I would think this would support management's "imposition" case.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
I know for fact that in stations like LAS and PHX contractors do a superlative job cleaning aircraft.
It does not support the unions desire to keep Utility work in-house if their performance provides aircraft to thecustomers that "are filthy and disgusting." I would think this would support management's "imposition" case.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
- Banned
- #34
Do you need a calculator?
89 mainline cities, Utility on third shift at 18.
89
-18
____
71 Stations, Majority of A/C get cleaned by vendors who do a lousy job on the RON, I have seen LAS'(no RONs in LAS) work, not very good, PHX was busted and a million dollar grievance is going to arbitration over the use of a vendor washing planes which is IAM covered work.
And when you have 31 planes on the RON, two-767s, 5-757s, 4-A321 and the rest are 737s, A320 and A319, please explain how 19 people can clean and security check the amount of planes?
Let me save you the time, it cant be done.
Company eliminated the Scheduled Cleaning Operation (SCO) and cut the third shift manpower throughout the system. No more spring cleaning.
If you don't have the tools to accomplish the work, the quality will go down, and funny thing is the only 20% of the RON cleaning is done by Utility, the remaining 80% is vendors, so using your "logic" the vendors need to be eliminated and the work insourced.
89 mainline cities, Utility on third shift at 18.
89
-18
____
71 Stations, Majority of A/C get cleaned by vendors who do a lousy job on the RON, I have seen LAS'(no RONs in LAS) work, not very good, PHX was busted and a million dollar grievance is going to arbitration over the use of a vendor washing planes which is IAM covered work.
And when you have 31 planes on the RON, two-767s, 5-757s, 4-A321 and the rest are 737s, A320 and A319, please explain how 19 people can clean and security check the amount of planes?
Let me save you the time, it cant be done.
Company eliminated the Scheduled Cleaning Operation (SCO) and cut the third shift manpower throughout the system. No more spring cleaning.
If you don't have the tools to accomplish the work, the quality will go down, and funny thing is the only 20% of the RON cleaning is done by Utility, the remaining 80% is vendors, so using your "logic" the vendors need to be eliminated and the work insourced.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
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- Banned
- #35
700UW said:
Since the answer to you question is obvious - 200 pilots probably cost more than 800 utility - I'll go on to the topic of "doing your job right".....
I understand that when the PIT 737 was moved to CLT in the consolidation of training facilities, they dismantled the sim in PIT, took it to CLT, and put it back together. All well and good, except someone "forgot" that the sim had to be re-certified so didn't bother. The result was that 4 weeks worth of check rides given in that sim were invalid and had to be redone.
I haven't heard if any pilots ended up flying illegally because of the snafu.....that'd probably be a $10,000 fine for each flight.
Do you reckon whoever "forgot" will "pay" for their failure to perform their job properly?
Jim
PITbull said:
Hugely difficult to prove in court. That is especially true if the testimony that the company did not want the IAM to send that propsal out because there was still negotiating room and that the IAM has not sent an offer or counteroffer to the company are true. Anyone pinning hopes against abrogation on the "good faith" clause are kidding themselves.
700UW said:
Wrong question. The proper question is how necessary and productive are 821 utility vs. 800 pilots? You can farm out the utility work to a subcontractor and merge some of the job duties into other workgroups. You cannot realistically do that with the pilot group.
- Banned
- #38
Oh yes you can.
Have you heard of?
Allegheny
Chatuaqua
MidAtlantic
Piedmont
PSA
Colgan Air
TranStates
Mesa
Seems US outsources plenty of pilot jobs and flying.
Even AirTran used Ryan Air's A320s to fly ATL-LAX.
US Airways Express
US Airways Express is a network of 8 regional airlines, including the MidAtlantic Airways division of US Airways, operating under a code-share and service agreement with US Airways to provide customers more flights to a greater number of destinations.
US Airways Express at a glance
*Serves more than 13 million customers annually
Offers 2,027 flights daily
Provides air service at 136 airports in the U.S., Canada and the Bahamas
Consists of 294 regional jet and turbo-prop aircraft, with an average fleet age of 7.0 years
Operates under the same Federal Aviation Regulation requirements as US Airways
*Employs over 10,594 regional airline professionals
Wow, Express has more planes and flies to more cities then mainline.
Remember the Wet Lease? That was before your time I believe at US.
Here are some more facts to show you Express is larger then mainline:
US Airways Systemwide Fact Sheet
Daily Departures Airports Served
US Airways 1,165 US Airways 89
US Airways Express 2,027 US Airways Express 136
Have you heard of?
Allegheny
Chatuaqua
MidAtlantic
Piedmont
PSA
Colgan Air
TranStates
Mesa
Seems US outsources plenty of pilot jobs and flying.
Even AirTran used Ryan Air's A320s to fly ATL-LAX.
US Airways Express
US Airways Express is a network of 8 regional airlines, including the MidAtlantic Airways division of US Airways, operating under a code-share and service agreement with US Airways to provide customers more flights to a greater number of destinations.
US Airways Express at a glance
*Serves more than 13 million customers annually
Offers 2,027 flights daily
Provides air service at 136 airports in the U.S., Canada and the Bahamas
Consists of 294 regional jet and turbo-prop aircraft, with an average fleet age of 7.0 years
Operates under the same Federal Aviation Regulation requirements as US Airways
*Employs over 10,594 regional airline professionals
Wow, Express has more planes and flies to more cities then mainline.
Remember the Wet Lease? That was before your time I believe at US.
Here are some more facts to show you Express is larger then mainline:
US Airways Systemwide Fact Sheet
Daily Departures Airports Served
US Airways 1,165 US Airways 89
US Airways Express 2,027 US Airways Express 136
The other jobs are directly tied to who flies that metal with the US livery. All those Express carriers you mentioned? Who works them in the biggest hub in the system? It is not US. They are not unionized. They seem to be on the whole, much happier than their counterparts upstairs on Concourses B, C, and D. They don't have complicated work rules over who loads a bag in the bin and who dumps the lav or washes the windscreen. They can move freely between checking passengers and loading bags if necessary. No worry about greivances, infighting, or pulling the knife from one's back. Go to work, put your 8 hours in, and get your paycheck every other week.
So let me ask you this, if they outsource the jobs of 800 more pilots, wet lease aircraft, or have someone like Ryan come in to fly routes, what work would there be for your precious 821 utility workers?
As a side note, the Air Tran move with Ryan was a smart one from a business perspective. It allowed Air Tran to move into market on a temporary basis until it had the aircraft to do so itself. It never planned on it being permanent. US tried this several years ago with UA and AA flying a codeshare into Japan until US had the metal to enter the Pacific market. Maybe if the wise men at ALPA were not so ardent against things like that the US picture would be different today? Maybe not, who knows.
Also, can you tell me which airline in the US has hired more people and constantly seems to grow at a much higher rate than anyone else, including WN?
So let me ask you this, if they outsource the jobs of 800 more pilots, wet lease aircraft, or have someone like Ryan come in to fly routes, what work would there be for your precious 821 utility workers?
As a side note, the Air Tran move with Ryan was a smart one from a business perspective. It allowed Air Tran to move into market on a temporary basis until it had the aircraft to do so itself. It never planned on it being permanent. US tried this several years ago with UA and AA flying a codeshare into Japan until US had the metal to enter the Pacific market. Maybe if the wise men at ALPA were not so ardent against things like that the US picture would be different today? Maybe not, who knows.
Also, can you tell me which airline in the US has hired more people and constantly seems to grow at a much higher rate than anyone else, including WN?
- Banned
- #40
Guess you need to realize that Piedmont is unionized, Pilots, F/A, Mechanics and Stock Clerks.
Mesa is unionized, Pilots, F/A and Mechanics.
Allegheny's Pilots, Mechanics F/A and Agents, inside and out are unionized.
And yes they do have work rules.
Mesa Airlines.
Mesa is unionized, Pilots, F/A and Mechanics.
Allegheny's Pilots, Mechanics F/A and Agents, inside and out are unionized.
And yes they do have work rules.
Mesa Airlines.
I was referring to the ground handling on the E concourse, not the flight crews or mechanics. The fact that so much can get done on E so much more efficiently than it can upstairs is my point. Don't read too much into it.
You are correct about Mesa being the answer to my question. What union represents their mechanics, ground personnel, operations people, and station staff?
You are correct about Mesa being the answer to my question. What union represents their mechanics, ground personnel, operations people, and station staff?
- Banned
- #42
Their mechanics are or were teamsters.
And if you actually worked at the airport you would know the E-Concourse has the highest turnover rate of employees.
And the E-concourse Gate and Ramp agents are Piedmont employees not Mesa Employees.
And most of the employees who do Mesa's ground handiling are not Mesa Employees there US Airways, US Airways Express, America West and United Airlines Employees.
And if you actually worked at the airport you would know the E-Concourse has the highest turnover rate of employees.
And the E-concourse Gate and Ramp agents are Piedmont employees not Mesa Employees.
And most of the employees who do Mesa's ground handiling are not Mesa Employees there US Airways, US Airways Express, America West and United Airlines Employees.
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
- 11,125
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N628AU said:
i wonder if this explains why we always get our inbound from phlly (of which mesa, piedmont and midatlantic fly from phl to abe) dont carry all of the bags with their rightful owners
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
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USA320Pilot said:
Really? I see U's 737 pilots are at the bottom of the barrel. LUV's FAs make more than their U counterparts today much less post-concessions.
So, they are not offering "market rates."
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
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N628AU said:
Sure you can. I've put this to A320pilot every time the IAM issue comes up, but he never answers: Why is ALPA not willing to give up all narrowbody Airbus flying (to say, Mesa), since it can be accomplished more economically that having U pilots do the flying?
Heck, send 'em to Mesa, send 'em for MX in Alabama.
Oh. Because more than half the pilot group would lose their jobs. Which is why the IAM won't budge.
It's called "Racing to the bottom." Only, in U's case, they want folks to accept "sub-LCC" wages to work, and, for some, it's too much.
