US Airways Makes Case for Merger With American

[Move2CLT]

Not operationaly.

Thank you Capt Obvious.

 

[Move2CLT]

OK, so once the there are some defined parameters given to the Arbitrator, He/She essentially becomes King Solomon?

That's why they're arbitrators, right?

 

[SparrowHawk]

That's why they're arbitrators, right?

Well Yes and NO! Not being an expert, armchair or otherwise, I was curious just how much leeway an arbitrator has under TLA. I have to be candid the RLA/NMB process boggles my mind. I've been in commercial arbitration and judging from what I know/learned so far they are quite different.

Just trying to educate myself! Never know when this arcane knowledge might be of value.

 

[fodase]

Well Yes and NO! Not being an expert, armchair or otherwise, I was curious just how much leeway an arbitrator has under TLA. I have to be candid the RLA/NMB process boggles my mind. I've been in commercial arbitration and judging from what I know/learned so far they are quite different.

Just trying to educate myself! Never know when this arcane knowledge might be of value.

It's no different than nay other arbitration that is used to resolve a dispute. Very simple, parties agree to the rules of the road before submitting to arbitration and agree to be bound by the decision. The Federal Arbitration Act says only in the case of some sort of illegal behavior from the arbitrator can his award be revisited. BTW Fedral or state courts have no jurisdiction over arbitration conducted under the rla.

 

[SparrowHawk]

It's no different than nay other arbitration that is used to resolve a dispute. Very simple, parties agree to the rules of the road before submitting to arbitration and agree to be bound by the decision. The Federal Arbitration Act says only in the case of some sort of illegal behavior from the arbitrator can his award be revisited. BTW Fedral or state courts have no jurisdiction over arbitration conducted under the rla.

On civil tort arbitration they use the process to lower the legal fees. The one I was in involved in, a customer attempting to break a lease due to alleged unfair competition. So in my case they followed the laws of the state of Delaware. So I think it slightly different

 

[fodase]

On civil tort arbitration they use the process to lower the legal fees. The one I was in involved in, a customer attempting to break a lease due to alleged unfair competition. So in my case they followed the laws of the state of Delaware. So I think it slightly different

Was ithe decision binding?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Was ithe decision binding?

YES! Either party could have filed suit but with little chance of success as both parties agree to accept the decision as final as part of the contract with the arbitrator.

 

[fodase]

YES! Either party could have filed suit but with little chance of success as both parties agree to accept the decision as final as part of the contract with the arbitrator.

Bingo! So the arbitrator is the decider and final authority. He follows the laws/rules set before the case is heard wether its private rules or state statues. To give you a little background on the pilot issue at usair, beyond arbitration the rla stipulates that a successor union inherits every single agreement when they take over, so usapa inherited the nic ( even though no easties will admit that simple fact). A new union can renegotiate whatever it wants with a simple caveat, it cannot benefit the majority and harm the minority, that is illegal. Self hostage taking (which usapa Is doing) is not a good enough reason. (usapa claims that reordering the nic. Will break the logjam, a logjam that they created)

 

[SparrowHawk]

Bingo! So the arbitrator is the decider and final authority

I knew you asked a leading question before regarding final and binding. In the Arbitration I was involved in it was basic Contract Law 101. One of the issues was "Specific Performance" which is not going to get to even a state supreme court on appeal.

Here you have a unique and specific law that applies only to specific work groups. Judging from what I read so far there is significant room to maneuver legally. Thus the 7 year tie up.

In a normal tort law situation this deal would have been done arbitration wise by mid 2006 regardless of who was pissed and sued. With the RLA and all of the nuances therein, the legal wrangling continues.

However in very broad and general terms Final and Binding means just that.

 

[fodase]

I knew you asked a leading question before regarding final and binding. In the Arbitration I was involved in it was basic Contract Law 101. One of the issues was "Specific Performance" which is not going to get to even a state supreme court on appeal.

Here you have a unique and specific law that applies only to specific work groups. Judging from what I read so far there is significant room to maneuver legally. Thus the 7 year tie up.

In a normal tort law situation this deal would have been done arbitration wise by mid 2006 regardless of who was pissed and sued. With the RLA and all of the nuances therein, the legal wrangling continues.

However in very broad and general terms Final and Binding means just that.

You must remember, this has never happen before we are making case law as we go. The question wasn't leading, all arbitrations work the same way, there are private arbitrations and there are arbitrations that follow state/ federal rules but in the end the arbitrator can do whatever he thinks is right with very little recourse from the parties, he is the decider and final and binding. In your point you inferred that you took issue with one person having such broad powers

 

[SparrowHawk]

You must remember, this has never happen before we are making case law as we go. The question wasn't leading, all arbitrations work the same way, there are private arbitrations and there are arbitrations that follow state/ federal rules but in the end the arbitrator can do whatever he thinks is right with very little recourse from the parties, he is the decider and final and binding. In your point you inferred that you took issue with one person having such broad powers

Sorry for the inference it wasn't intended.

New new case Law is really the hang up here and frankly I think your brethren on the East knew it. They can IMO push this thing around for another 2 to 3 years sans merger. I hope they don't because IMO if a merger takes place they have put themselves on an Island with no food or water.

 

[ggiby]

Sorry for the inference it wasn't intended.

New new case Law is really the hang up here and frankly I think your brethren on the East knew it. They can IMO push this thing around for another 2 to 3 years sans merger. I hope they don't because IMO if a merger takes place they have put themselves on an Island with no food or water.

oh well...??? lol


I think we are all over it... lets move on PLEASE????? We want to keep working.... Lets not keep fighting... Like Rodney King said... "cant we all get along ?"

 

[fodase]

Sorry for the inference it wasn't intended.

New new case Law is really the hang up here and frankly I think your brethren on the East knew it. They can IMO push this thing around for another 2 to 3 years sans merger. I hope they don't because IMO if a merger takes place they have put themselves on an Island with no food or water.

No worries. The east has already shot their own foot off and dont even know it. In the future people will say that karma got them, but in truth their greed has out them at a disadvantage going forward and we will all pay for it dearly

 

[SparrowHawk]

No worries. The east has already shot their own foot off and dont even know it. In the future people will say that karma got them, but in truth their greed has out them at a disadvantage going forward and we will all pay for it dearly

Well as an outsider I've arrived at a similar observation. IMO, the jig is up, the good fight is over and it's time for turning swords into plowshares. Or at least turning the Artillery towards Doug Parker. Call it opinion, call it a gut reaction but if the pilot group goes into a merger fragmented as now APA will crush both US sides like a rotten grape.

 

[fodase]

Well as an outsider I've arrived at a similar observation. IMO, the jig is up, the good fight is over and it's time for turning swords into plowshares. Or at least turning the Artillery towards Doug Parker. Call it opinion, call it a gut reaction but if the pilot group goes into a merger fragmented as now APA will crush both US sides like a rotten grape.

Yup, and think about what the east die hards say here, majority rules, agreements don't matter if you don't agree, etc. I am sure the apa will take em up on their beliefs