US Airways ALPA MEC Resolution

[exB717Flyer]

"career expectations"..Thanks...that phrase is always a source of hilarity to me

...which is why a professional arbitrator who isn't prone to inappropriate bouts of laughter had to properly define it.

 

[EastUS]

...which is why a professional arbitrator who isn't prone to inappropriate bouts of laughter had to properly define it.

Ah...you've colored your thought with the lofty useage of "professional"...."a professional arbitrator". Be it know then that the clowns in most any quality circus think of themselves as professionals

Ah..Hokay then....Would YOU be so kind as to actually "Define"..."Career Expectations"?

I can always use an additional laugh You'll excuse me if I take my own counsel as to what constitues "inappropriate bouts of laughter"

Would the set of assinine assumptions that you might employ be based upon:

1) No 9-11 tragedy?,...Or any admission of the future potential for a similar event?
2) A magically consistent economy within which there are no mergers, no downfalls,...and your AWA existed within an armoured bubble?
3) Hiring on to a third rate operation and "expecting" to gain transatlantic flying?.....etc?
4) There actually exists, as a definable point in time, suitable for "arbitration" usage, some magic moment upon which the future of the world, and any given company can properly be projected from?
5) Umm...can I please have the next winning Powerball numbers then?

Do these "Career Expectations" actually exist in any portion of the real world as other than absurd fantasy?...or is it merely total BS, and best used only by the logically impaired as cocktail conversation?

 

[SkyRat]

Like I said, snot-nosed Gen X'er. Wanna shine my shoes?

Later,
Eye

Eye, anything constructive to say...?

Yep Gen-X'er! Snot-nosed? Hmmm! If I have a cold. Sorry only shine mine... And a 8yr CPT making 20k more than your 20+!!! Sad ain't it? MOVE ON!

Why not move on and get a REAL contract w/ a REALISTIC compensation, scheduling, medical, and retirement package.

GL

 

[EastUS]

Why not move on

If, three months into this....you still have to ask?.......

 

[exB717Flyer]

Ah...you've colored your thought with the lofty useage of "professional"...."a professional arbitrator". Be it know then that the clowns in most any quality circus think of themselves as professionals

Funny, I don't you recall you having a problem with Nicolau's professionalism before he passed down his ruling. In any case, his resume speaks for itself and both sides agreed to abide by his professional opinion.

Ah..Hokay then....Would YOU be so kind as to actually "Define"..."Career Expectations"?

I can't and I won't. It's a subjective opinion which is why a neutral was required. Nic explained his reasoning in the Award.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

I guess that is a little better than Gen O'ver.

We are the future. You had your's now it's our turn.

Like I said, snot-nosed Gen X'er. Wanna shine my shoes?

Later,
Eye

 

[USA320Pilot]

At this point with Roland Wilder indicating he can tie up the lawsuit for up to 5 year's in court and the East pilots having the ability to live under LOA 93 for at least 7 year's who cares what the Nicolau Award says because it is not going to be implemented for a very, very long time, if ever.

Therefore, it might be better for the AWA piltos to enter into Section 6 negotiations and for the East pilots to seek a pay raise because as management indicated earlier this week to Wall Street and the News Media, "the right thing to do is to pay everybody the same" and "not running a good operation is extremely expensive."

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Phoenix]

I can't and I won't [define career expectations]. It's a subjective opinion which is why a neutral was required. Nic explained his reasoning in the Award.

You and I have paid ALPA hansomly to posses a term that they and we cannot define, and such purchased term must be defined by an arbitrator paid for by us, subsequent to our purchase of the undefined term and subsequent to the circumstances making said non-term necessary to invoke?

And a pilot still defends that? No wonder ALPA is so successful.

Why not move on and get a REAL contract w/ a REALISTIC compensation, scheduling, medical, and retirement package.

GL

I came perilously close to an "inappropriate bout of laughter" It was enjoyable. Thanks.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

There you have it - 5 more years of LOA 93.

Now,listen to this very closely, the Company cannot unilaterally negotiate an "equal pay for equal work" arrangement with the east without the consent of the west MEC. There's that pesky TA thing again. The end-game is a 3 party agreement.

At this point with Roland Wilder indicating he can tie up the lawsuit for up to 5 year's in court and the East pilots having the ability to live under LOA 93 for at least 7 year's who cares what the Nicolau Award says because it is not going to be implemented for a very, very long time, if ever.

Therefore, it might be better for the AWA piltos to enter into Section 6 negotiations and for the East pilots to seek a pay raise because as management indicated earlier this week to Wall Street and the News Media, "the right thing to do is to pay everybody the same" and "not running a good operation is extremely expensive."

Regards,

USA320Pilot

I'll define career expectation for you Phoenix.

On May 15th, 2005...

Career expectation for US Airways pilots: weeks
Career expection for America West pilots: years

Any questions?

You and I have paid ALPA hansomly to posses a term that they and we cannot define, and such purchased term must be defined by an arbitrator paid for by us, subsequent to our purchase of the undefined term and subsequent to the circumstances making said non-term necessary to invoke?

And a pilot still defends that? No wonder ALPA is so successful.
I came perilously close to an "inappropriate bout of laughter" It was enjoyable. Thanks.

 

[Phoenix]

I'll define career expectation for you Phoenix.

On May 15th, 2005...

Career expectation for US Airways pilots: weeks
Career expection for America West pilots: years

Any questions?

Yes, I have two.

1. Why should the parties involved trust the definition of a term not defined before the dispute?
2. Why should the parties involved trust the definition now proffered by someone who is not neutral to the outcome that is dependent on the definition of the term?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Callsign,

Apparently the East MEC does not agree with your theory nor does the Rice Committee.

Furthermore, the East MEC will file the dispute resolution language drafted by the ALPA National Representation Department seeking to ensure that separate operations be maintained between the two ALPA parties.

I find it interesting that ALPA National is drafting the resolution against the AWA MEC. How about you?

Furthermore, let's not forget WHEREAS the Executive Council has established a committee called the “Rice Committeeâ€￾ chaired by First Vice President Paul Rice and including Executive Board member David Webb and Executive council member Ray Miller to work both with the US Airways MEC/JNC and the America West MEC/JNC to assist in finding practical solutions that promote mutual career protections and mutual success, with improved pay, benefits, work rules and job security for both US Airways and America West pilots, and

WHEREAS the US Airways MEC has discussed the Collective Bargaining Agreement options brought forward by the Rice Committee for consideration by the MECs,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC endorses the concept of equivalent contracts (separate contracts of comparable value for US Airways and America West pilots), with separate operations, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that such separate operations are to be permanent in nature and include preemptive contract language to assure their continued application during any future merger involving both the US Airways and America West pilots, and

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC authorizes the US Airways members of the NC to pursue an equivalent contract utilizing all necessary ALPA resources, including the assistance of the Rice Committee.

Callsign, the US Airways ALPA NC is not permited to negotiate any contract except "separate contracts of comparable value for US Airways and America West pilots, with separate operations", period.

Finally, if the West pilots want a pay raise then I believe they should get one and the East pilots should support that effort. Since the East NC/JNC is only permitted to negotiate a separate contract with separate operations then why does the AWA MEC not seek to open up Section 6 negotiations?

An AWA effort to begin Section 6 negoiations would permit the AWA pilots to obtain a pay raise and not feel as if they are being held hostage. Furthermore, the West pilots would keep all of their pre-merger career expectations. Does that not make sense?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[nycbusdriver]

Analyize this:

Yet, it cannot be disputed that there were differences in the financial condition of both carriers and that US Airways was the weaker. This necessarily means that career expectations differed and that US Airways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues.â€￾

Source: Nicolau Seniority Integration Award

Talk's cheap.

Just because Nicolau said it does not make it true.

 

[EastUS]

I can't and I won't.

Figured that such was the case

Ummm...so "Career expectations" in this case is, admittedly, merely the subjective whim of one man? OK then, but such hardly seems anything appropriate for your "side" to so vociferously support then, as being "fair" "reasonable" or otherwise connected to the communal reality of thousands of pilots.

 

[Dog Wonder]

WHEREAS, beating a dead horse will make it get up and take us to the Promised Land, and

WHEREAS, said dead horse has legs but no functioning brain, and

WHEREAS, it is necessary to beat said horse until it returns from the dead.

It is now RESOLVED.

Horses rise from the dead.

Beating a dead horse will achieve this result.

Lawyers get obscenely wealthy from beating dead horses.

People ardently believing in the resurrection of dead horses will blindly pay for said resurrection.

And then will rail eternally at the failure of rich lawyers to achieve the resurrection.

Hurrah, Hurrah, Hurrah.

Amen, and so forth.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

First, and nothing personal, I find anything you say makes absolutely no sense, so par for the course.

I would find it very interesting if ALPA National is unilaterally drafting a resolution that is contrary to what we agreed to in the TA. The TA is a 3 party agreement so any change in terms would need to be a 3 party negotiation (west, east, Company). It does not take an attorney to figure that one out, so yes, it will be VERY interesting to say the least. The EC has already overstepped their bounds and may pay dearly for it if things are not put back on track.

Callsign,

Apparently the East MEC does not agree with your theory nor does the Rice Committee.

Furthermore, the East MEC will file the dispute resolution language drafted by the ALPA National Representation Department seeking to ensure that separate operations be maintained between the two ALPA parties.

I find it interesting that ALPA National is drafting the resolution against the AWA MEC. How about you?

Furthermore, let's not forget WHEREAS the Executive Council has established a committee called the “Rice Committeeâ€￾ chaired by First Vice President Paul Rice and including Executive Board member David Webb and Executive council member Ray Miller to work both with the US Airways MEC/JNC and the America West MEC/JNC to assist in finding practical solutions that promote mutual career protections and mutual success, with improved pay, benefits, work rules and job security for both US Airways and America West pilots, and

WHEREAS the US Airways MEC has discussed the Collective Bargaining Agreement options brought forward by the Rice Committee for consideration by the MECs,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC endorses the concept of equivalent contracts (separate contracts of comparable value for US Airways and America West pilots), with separate operations, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that such separate operations are to be permanent in nature and include preemptive contract language to assure their continued application during any future merger involving both the US Airways and America West pilots, and

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC authorizes the US Airways members of the NC to pursue an equivalent contract utilizing all necessary ALPA resources, including the assistance of the Rice Committee.

Callsign, the US Airways ALPA NC is not permited to negotiate any contract except "separate contracts of comparable value for US Airways and America West pilots, with separate operations", period.

Finally, if the West pilots want a pay raise then I believe they should get one and the East pilots should support that effort. Since the East NC/JNC is only permitted to negotiate a separate contract with separate operations then why does the AWA MEC not seek to open up Section 6 negotiations?

An AWA effort to begin Section 6 negoiations would permit the AWA pilots to obtain a pay raise and not feel as if they are being held hostage. Furthermore, the West pilots would keep all of their pre-merger career expectations. Does that not make sense?

Regards,

USA320Pilot