US Airways ALPA MEC Resolution

[Pi brat]

I can tell you FIRST hand that there are no deals to be made!! Why? Because all the protections are already covered within the award. Now when the E190 had to be pressed because of their total unwillingness to split this new flying down the middle, they gloated when they got a 67/33% split. Did we act up and clown? not at all, we sucked up and moved on!!!

They have never wanted to give us a thing not even the profit sharing as you have read. The only thing they want us to have was spots at the very bottom of the list, even below their unemployed!! They have never acted in good faith, never treated us as equal never once wanted to deal that was close to fair!! Date of hire was all we heard for two years and bet you bottom dollar if they got it the list would have been in Parker's hands the very next day!!! This is total B.S. and we will never deal away an arbitrated award PERIOD!!!! ALPA national can do what they want but in the end with the High road reaches it's final destination, the west pilots are going to have to be made whole and who pays that tab we could care less but it will be paid!!!

That desert heat really makes you cranky doesn't it? High road, ha! Just for grins, what is your DOB and DOH, say within in a year or so.

 

[AWA320]

That desert heat really makes you cranky doesn't it? High road, ha! Just for grins, what is your DOB and DOH, say within in a year or so.

What difference does it make??? I will humor you though I was born in the early 60's and no I am not cranky just realistic...

 

[Pi brat]

What difference does it make??? I will humor you though I was born in the early 60's and no I am not cranky just realistic...

Realistic? At least USA320 leads off his post with in my opinion, you just state it as fact. What is the phrase? Law of unintended consequences? And your DOH?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Pi brat,
He's just another snotty, self-absorbed, all about me, Gen-X'er. Don't worry he'll get his; they always do.

Later,
Eye

That desert heat really makes you cranky doesn't it? High road, ha! Just for grins, what is your DOB and DOH, say within in a year or so.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi brat,
He's just another snotty, self-absorbed, all about me, Gen-X'er. Don't worry he'll get his; they always do.

Later,
Eye

Eye,

Don't tell him, but I really just enjoy getting him fired up. This board is sorta like flying. Within the first few minutes you tell what kind of pilot they are, or poster!



Take care.

 

[AWA320]

Realistic? At least USA320 leads off his post with in my opinion, you just state it as fact. What is the phrase? Law of unintended consequences? And your DOH?

That's because he has no say and I do!!!! Run with that...

Pi brat,
He's just another snotty, self-absorbed, all about me, Gen-X'er. Don't worry he'll get his; they always do.

Later,
Eye

That is rich coming from the likes of you!!! All you want to do is put us at the bottom of the list below even your unemployed!!!! Yeah I got mine when you weren't allowed to hose us in arbitration, thanks George you did a fine and absolutly FAIR job...

 

[CaptainZitface]

ust a thought here, since the east attrition in the captain ranks is relatively the same as the west, why couldn’t we put a ratio on all captain vacancies so they are assured over 2/3 of the captain positions and vice-versa in the west? This is similar to the E190 & B757 awards. I don’t know if that is something the east would consider as a remedy - probably not since they seem bent on "educate to vacate". laugh.gif

Cactus I think there could several options like this that could help us move along, but I thought your MECs position was that they would not negotiate anything now. Is it not?

Not quite accurate. Our MEC stated that they would not negotiate anything based on vacating or significantly altering the Nicolau award. As stated earlier, the JNC can come up with a joint contract which (besides a pay raise, etc) includes some ratio for the captain's positions for a certain amount of time. This would not fundamentally change the Nicolau award. It ain't a perfect win-win but it's a lot better than what we have now.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Even if the west was willing to go with the relative upgrades and whatever else anyone thinks up, it really doesn't matter. Not because of the present circumstances.

I really don't expect the west to compromise anything, nor do I believe they should. If I was in their camp, I would feel exactly the same way. But even if they did compromise by giving "relative upgrades" or other items, the Nicolau list is still a problem from the standpoint of any future mergers. As far as the east is concerned, it is well worth every effort spent to keep Nicolau from ever being implemented. It really does go far beyond the situation with the AWA pilot group.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Nycbusdriver said: "I really don't expect the west to compromise anything, nor do I believe they should. If I was in their camp, I would feel exactly the same way. But even if they did compromise by giving "relative upgrades" or other items, the Nicolau list is still a problem from the standpoint of any future mergers. As far as the east is concerned, it is well worth every effort spent to keep Nicolau from ever being implemented. It really does go far beyond the situation with the AWA pilot group."

USA320Pilot comments: I agree with your comments above, which is why the Rice Committee's options and the recent US Airways MEC resolutions are the only way this "log jam" will be broken.

Moreover, John McIlvenna's letter earlier this week has pured even more fuel on the fire and angered the East pilots even more.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[TechBoy]

Moreover, John McIlvenna's letter earlier this week has pured even more fuel on the fire and angered the East pilots even more.

You have got to be kidding me. After all the invective spewed by various parts of the East, you have the nerve to say that McIlvenna is pouring fuel on the fire. Incredible.

 

[AWA320]

Nycbusdriver said: "I really don't expect the west to compromise anything, nor do I believe they should. If I was in their camp, I would feel exactly the same way. But even if they did compromise by giving "relative upgrades" or other items, the Nicolau list is still a problem from the standpoint of any future mergers. As far as the east is concerned, it is well worth every effort spent to keep Nicolau from ever being implemented. It really does go far beyond the situation with the AWA pilot group."

USA320Pilot comments: I agree with your comments above, which is why the Rice Committee's options and the recent US Airways MEC resolutions are the only way this "log jam" will be broken.

Moreover, John McIlvenna's letter earlier this week has pured even more fuel on the fire and angered the East pilots even more.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

GOOD!!!! Then maybe you will decertify, please hurry up with that will you??????

 

[767jetz]

But even if they did compromise by giving "relative upgrades" or other items, the Nicolau list is still a problem from the standpoint of any future mergers. As far as the east is concerned, it is well worth every effort spent to keep Nicolau from ever being implemented. It really does go far beyond the situation with the AWA pilot group.

Thanks for the admission.

So what you're saying is that all the hoopla about attrition, and finding "something workable" is a smoke screen. Complete and utter BS. That actually there is no desire to even come up with a compromise absent DOH, instead of the relative seniority the Nicolau award, and ALPA merger policy dictates. Which brings us right back to where you started... DOH or nothing... Because what you really have your eye on is making your career whole again in the next merger at the expense of the next group. Nice! :down:

Well, here it is, in black and white, for all to see. At least you are finally honest.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

I’m not talking about changing the Nic award – I’m talking about finding a solution to move this group forward. Look, I know the concerns about west “stealing†east attrition are bogus because they are only focusing on numbers rather than the big picture. So, rather than draw a line in the sand, why don’t we try to find solutions? For example, since the widebodies are already fenced off, there are probably less than 50 west pilots who would take a lateral move to an east equipment/base, making most of that attrition expendable. Why not just disregard any attrition in the FO ranks since it has little or no value to the west pilots? Meaning, fence those positions off and do the same for the west.

That leaves us with the coveted captain positions. Strong odds are you will see more movement east to west for captain positions than west to east, which puts us at a disadvantage and could potentially erode our seniority quickly in PHX & LAS. This is an area I am most uncomfortable with in the Nicolau award – no fences for PHX & LAS. If you don’t see the potential for a lot of east movement to west bases than you need to look again. We have no protections here, so why not agree to fences and captain ratios in the JNC process? This does not change the award, but it might give everyone a comfort level that moves us toward the golden goose.

I strongly disagree the Nic award sets a precedent in our profession. The arbitrator stated in the award “...that each case turns on its own factsâ€, which does not prevent other types of integration methods including DOH if that’s what the board finds equitable. If any of you east guys think you are protecting the interests of our profession, step back, put the crack pipe down, sober up, and start thinking about a more achievable goal.

I can tell you FIRST hand that there are no deals to be made!! Why? Because all the protections are already covered within the award. Now when the E190 had to be pressed because of their total unwillingness to split this new flying down the middle, they gloated when they got a 67/33% split. Did we act up and clown? not at all, we sucked up and moved on!!!

They have never wanted to give us a thing not even the profit sharing as you have read. The only thing they want us to have was spots at the very bottom of the list, even below their unemployed!! They have never acted in good faith, never treated us as equal never once wanted to deal that was close to fair!! Date of hire was all we heard for two years and bet you bottom dollar if they got it the list would have been in Parker's hands the very next day!!! This is total B.S. and we will never deal away an arbitrated award PERIOD!!!! ALPA national can do what they want but in the end with the High road reaches it's final destination, the west pilots are going to have to be made whole and who pays that tab we could care less but it will be paid!!!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Thanks for the admission.

So what you're saying is that all the hoopla about attrition, and finding "something workable" is a smoke screen. Complete and utter BS. That actually there is no desire to even come up with a compromise absent DOH, instead of the relative seniority the Nicolau award, and ALPA merger policy dictates. Which brings us right back to where you started... DOH or nothing... Because what you really have your eye on is making your career whole again in the next merger at the expense of the next group. Nice! :down:

Well, here it is, in black and white, for all to see. At least you are finally honest.

Please. I've mentioned this before on another thread, but I need to give you some of my perpective. I really have no dog in this fight...at least not one that directly impacts me personally. You see, I am one of the 517 east pilots who stayed exactly where I was, and maintained exactly the career expectations I had before Nicolau as after. I did not get a windfall any more than runway behind me helps me in any way. In short, I got DOH. But that does not mean I don't think Nicolau failed to follow policy, and possibly even used incorrect seniority lists to make his "award."

If by chance Nicolau is instituted, I personally still sit very pretty going into another merger. Given the miserable fleet plan that USAirways has maintained, DOH with UAL, DAL, NWA, or CAL would make me very happy. Relative position with UAL, DAL, NWA, or CAL would also make me very happy. Either way, I will be a wide body captain flying international routes. Slotted or DOH, it would probably be a nicer airplane (with concurrent paycheck) for me than USAirways even owns now.

But I still think the Nicolau award is unfair and needs to be vacated one way or another simply because my fellow USAirways pilots have suffered long, hard and SUFFICIENTLY without having to countenance Nicolau. I will do everything I can to support efforts to vacate Nicolau. Not for me, because as I have explained, I have no dog in this fight. It's for the group of hard-working, long-suffering, top-notch professional pilots with whom I am honored to share the cockpit. They absolutely should not be subjected to yet another indignity.

 

[electricjet98]

That's because he has no say and I do!!!! Run with that...

Still looking for that ladder for the east guys to use?