US Airways ALPA MEC Resolution

[EastUS]

EastUs,

The West boys are slow learners but I think they are figuring out that the East is in the driver's seat.

They can b!tch all they want but with time they will get over it.

Pretty much. They're seemingly yet set on "But, but Alpo/the MEC said!!...St Nic came early!!/Binding arbitration!!/etc" without any regard to the actual realities involved in the present mess. I'll confess that I mostly read these boards for pure amusemant lately.

The relevant point is that ALPA has the resonsability to define the terms that make up ALPA merger policy. The position that Nicolau is the end all be all of that policy doen't hold water or Nicolau would have delivered the list to the company directly and ALAP would have stepped back and allowed it to be delivered by Nicolau.

Personally I welcome ALPA's immediate delivery of the list to chugalug doug. Do it now. Get it over with.

It's their last stall measure in avoiding decertification...you know they'll play with it as long as is humanly possible.

 

[b737fo]

"Third rate operation? Really? What do you base that assessment on?"

That's easy = reality. I need only think of the many airline folk within my old reserve squadron: NO ONE wanted to work for America Worst whenever ANYONE else was hiring...and it was fully cause for proper pity parties for those that had unfortunate interviews, or otherwise failed to make "The Majors", and even temporarilly ended up there...You do the math.

Thanks for admitting it was a completely subjective analysis used to draw your conclusions on the operations of these two airlines. I appreciate your honesty.

 

[Phoenix]

Pretty much. They're seemingly yet set on "But, but Alpo/the MEC said!!...St Nic came early!!/Binding arbitration!!/etc" without any regard to the actual realities involved in the present mess. I'll confess that I mostly read these boards for pure amusemant lately.
It's their last stall measure in avoiding decertification...you know they'll play with it as long as is humanly possible.

I would be a blessing if they did nothing but just play with it. They will likely do everything they can to force it by dividing the AAA pilots by extraordinary means. The decert effort, and those leading it, might experience a nefarious ALPA that they never knew was possible.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

But that is exactly what the EC stated in the resolution. Basically, absent fraud, the list is what it is.

The position that Nicolau is the end all be all of that policy doen't hold water...

 

[Phoenix]

Thanks for admitting it was a completely subjective analysis used to draw your conclusions on the operations of these two airlines. I appreciate your honesty.

Of course it was subjective. And since it was the same sentiment at my Reserve unit too, it was pretty much approaching universal too. I mean you poll two Reserve units and you can learn the sentiment everywhere.

 

[EastUS]

I would be a blessing if they did nothing but just play with it. They will likely do everything they can to force it by dividing the AAA pilots by extraordinary means. The decert effort, and those leading it, might experience a nefarious ALPA that they never knew was possible.

True that. I'm fully certain that the "Save Alpo/My Phoney-baloney-job!!" will be the main ingredient in Alpo strategy. I'd be very surprised if they witheld the standard sell-out bribes (hey little Boy...wan't a job at Alpo Nat'l's candy factory? and/or any extortion techniques that they can come up with/etc. I'd still guess that they'll play with this one for a goodly long while..in hopes of decert momentum slipping away, even if slightly.

I do find wry amusement in observing that the west crowd still seems intent upon viewing Alpo's "actions" as being performed with honest concern for any of the pilots involved here...especially after their own "righteous position" MEC clowns have posted about "avoiding decertification".

 

[Phoenix]

But that is exactly what the EC stated in the resolution. Basically, absent fraud, the list is what it is.

Then call the EC and tell them they have no right to hold the list. Demand they release the list now dabnaggit!

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

I'm not one f those all tied around an axle over the list being submitted to the Company. I have no intrest in ever moving out east but I am in need of mo money. You see the connection?

Then call the EC and tell them they have no right to hold the list. Demand they release the list now dabnaggit!

 

[Phoenix]

I'd still guess that they'll play with this one for a goodly long while..in hopes of decert momentum slipping away, even if slightly.

Agreed. Every execustion of strategy in its due time.

I'm not one f those all tied around an axle over the list being submitted to the Company. I have no intrest in ever moving out east but I am in need of mo money. You see the connection?

Connection? No.

Mistake? Yes. You should have gotten hired at Southwest or American. Me, I didn't need mo money so I decided to work for Mesa Grande.

 

[Bear96]

So then ALPA divorced themself from being the representative "union" when the MECs entered into binding arbitration?

I am not sure what you are trying to imply by putting the word "union" in quotes, or what you mean by "divorce." ALPA made a conscious and sensible choice not to take sides (as in it chose not to represent one side's position over the other's) in a dispute such as this, which is why the system -- agreed to by ALL three involved parties (ALPA, East MEC and West MEC) -- was designed to put this dispute to the binding arbitration process to resolve. Implicit in the concept of binding arbitration is that all parties agree to be bound by the result. ALPA certainly did not "divorce" itself from the process. Rather, it agreed to follow the arbitration decision, forward the list to the company, and then work towards a joint contract.

And our Reps agreed to divorce us from ALPA and absolve ALPA from responsability of defining seniority?

I am not sure how your reps "divorced" you from ALPA. And you are trying to work in a straw man by saying ALPA had no "responsibility of defining seniority." What you seem to be missing is that the ALPA merger policy did not require a straight seniority (DOH) merger to begin with.

But, in any case, see above: Yes, ALPA made a conscious decision not to "define seniority." ALPA made a conscious and sensible choice not to take sides (as in it chose not to represent one side's position over the other's) in a dispute such as this, which is why the system -- agreed to by ALL three involved parties (ALPA, East MEC and West MEC) -- was designed to put this dispute to the binding arbitration process to resolve. (BTW, in case you didn't know, implicit in the concept of binding arbitration is that all parties agree to be bound by the result.) ALPA certainly did not "divorce" itself from the process. Rather, it agreed to follow the arbitration decision, forward the list to the company, and then work towards a joint contract. (See the theme?)

Oh that makes sense now. ALPA should hand over the list forh with.

Correct. ALPA now has the legal obligation to hand over the list, pursuant to the binding abitration agreement between the parties, one of which was the East MEC. To clarify, because it seems like the East is not quite understanding this point, the concept of agreeing to binding arbitration includes agreeing to be bound by the result.

But wait, ALPA divorced themself so they don't have anything to do with it now. Right?

Wrong. ALPA certainly did not "divorce" itself from the process. Rather, it agreed to follow the arbitration decision, forward the list to the company, and then work towards a joint contract. In other words, ALPA national, along with the East and West MECs, agreed to follow the merger policy, which included binding arbitration, and then handing over the list upon the conclusion of that binding arbitration.

It was binding arbitration and Nicolau is the final answer. Right?

Precisely. I am glad to see you are finally catching on to this "binding arbitration" thing.

 

[EastUS]

"Correct. ALPA now has the legal obligation to hand over the list,"

Muahaha...kindly take up the AWA communal Alpo sword and force those indigent Alpo Nat'l bums to do what you perceive to be the correct thing = Turn over the List. We can then kick 'em out, and let the games begin in earnest

I have no intrest in ever moving out east but I am in need of mo money.

"but I am in need of mo money."

Well..given the overwhelming sympathy shown out west for any notions of pay parity for the east...I'm thinking "TOUGH LUCK"

 

[Phoenix]

ALPA certainly did not "divorce" itself from the process.

Didn't say they divorced themself from the process. They divorced themself of responsability to define the terms of their own merger policy, explicitly by the policy itself, which as you pointed out does not define seniority, and requires an arbitrator to handle the policy.

ALPA certainly did not "divorce" itself from the process. Rather, it agreed to follow the arbitration decision, forward the list to the company, and then work towards a joint contract.

And I would be pleased to have ALPA do exactly that, forth with.

 

[Bear96]

"Correct. ALPA now has the legal obligation to hand over the list,"

Muahaha...kindly take up the AWA communal Alpo sword and force those indigent Alpo Nat'l bums to do what you perceive to be the correct thing = Turn over the List. We can then kick 'em out, and let the games begin in earnest

It matters not what I "perceive to be the correct thing," nor is there any need for me to "take up a sword" (whatever that means ). Just as the East MEC has agreed to be bound by the Nicolau decision, so too has ALPA national agreed to turn over the list to LCC.

Should the East MEC and/or ALPA national refuse to carry out their legal obligations and suffer the consequences of the refusal(s), it makes no difference to me.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Well..given the overwhelming sympathy shown out west for any notions of pay parity for the east...I'm thinking "TOUGH LUCK"

Touche'

 

[EastUS]

It matters not what I "perceive to be the correct thing," nor is there any need for me to "take up a sword" (whatever that means ). Just as the East MEC has agreed to be bound by the Nicolau decision, so too has ALPA national agreed to turn over the list to LCC.

Should the East MEC and/or ALPA national refuse to carry out their legal obligations and suffer the consequences of the refusal(s), it makes no difference to me.

Understood. Your post's then taken as a legal analysis on your part. I'm just more in the mood for a fight at present