Updated Flight Attendant Sick Policy

[bwipilot]

I do not understand the subtraction of 5 hours per sick call. My airline deducts 5 hours from my sick bank if I call in sick. My pay is the same. The 5 hours corresponds to the 5 hours I would have received had I been on duty.

Q: does U FAs not get sick time?

Q: what pay does a FA get for each day on reserve (or how many days of reserve for the 71 hour guarantee)?

My supposition is that the penalty for complying with the sick policy as written is excessive. Hence, the honest are punished and all are given incentive to play games.

 

[Whatnow?]

MMW,

I've got to put my 2 cents worth in on this one. I think you need to find out a little more info on the new F/A reserve sytem before you ( a non F/A) dictate the system in your own words. First of all, just because 10, 20, or how many ever F/A's are available does not mean all of them can actually go to work. The system shows you available until your days off start.....no rocket science there. However, If you are showing available for 1 day and the trip being covered is a 3-4day trip you can and who wouldn't pass for their days off! Another thing to keep in mind, on a day that I go on Duty, as a reserve( with 15 years seniority) on Int'l in PHW....I may show being available as # 59 or so with 23 open trips for reserves....those #'s don't equate to me getting a trip for the next day do they? But, actually I would get a trip! On Int'l, the trips all are considered 3 day trips....a lot of those reserves showing available for 1 and 2 days are included on the availability list...and do not have to fly if it goes into their days off. I mean c'mon....we are human and have normal lives on our days off too! We have lives outside this miserable mess!

And to all those who have posted that for Reserves "it's your job, if you don't like it.... quit" Gimme a break! The reserve system at USAirways has put people with up to 28 years sitting around not working! A lot of these people have normal lives with families who do not live in Pittsburgh or Philadelphia. Keep in mind, USAir as it was, merged with a West Coast Airline back in 1988...and then closed all of the crew bases on the West Coast in the mid to early 90's. Now, you have got F/A's commuting cross country to go to work. Why uproot families, especially if you aren't the bread winner, to live in Pittsburgh of Philly! UGH! I'm sorry but for all these F/A's who are commuters, they should be given a medal of honor or something! They are commuting on flights we barely even have any more! Now that's dedication! And yes, for some of them they are commuting only to sit in a hotel room or commuter pad the entire time they are on duty and not even fly! Don't you think that can be expensive, especially when you are barely getting a paycheck? And one other comment, I would guess to say that about 40-45% of the F/A's are no longer on the property anymore, through involuntary or voluntary furloughs. Pitbull, can verify #'s. So yes, we really don't have the #'s anymore.

And as far as calling in sick goes, who can afford to do that anymore! You are penalized for doing that! If I could, I would wear a rubber suit gloves and a mask to work on these planes anymore! Just today, I had some lady through a dirty diaper in my trash bag as I was cleaning the cabin for landing when I wasn't looking....and by the way that dirty bomb hit my hands as it went in! There was not enough soap on that plane to disinfect that! We should be getting Bio-hazard pay....I know you've seen the conditions of these lavatories....now imagine flying around all day with that being recirculated through your cabin! Enough said!

 

[etops1]

HEY GUYS, I E-MAILED JERRY GLASS ABOUT THE SICK POLICY AND I ALSO TOLD HIM THAT THIS WOULDN'T HAPPEN IF THERE WASN'T A FENCE BETWEEN ITD AND DOMESTIC. THAT IF THERE NO FENCE, THE FCO FLT COULD HAVE BEEN COVERED BY DOMESTIC RESERVES. THIS WAS HIS RESPONSE.

DELETED BY MODERATOR. Please do not post private emails or messages.

 

[Whatnow?]

Gimme a break......The ITD program has to this day....NEVER got the staffing numbers right! Stop blaming the F/A's for inadequency!

 

[etops1]

WE GOTTA STOP WHINING . THIS IS A BUSSINESS. IF I OWNED A BUSSINESS I WOULD WANT RELIABLE PEOPLE. DON'T GET ME WRONG I HAVE PLAYED THE GAME TOO. BUT IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF TIME TILL THEY STOPPED IT. IF YOU CANT STAND THE HEAT ,STAY OUT OF THE KITCHEN. B)

 

[Light Years]

Whatnow, great post!

I know we've all discussed this before, but why is there an ITD fence again? The excuse I've always heard is something vague about how it used to be all one but service levels suffered, or people werent filling out correct paperwork, or something to do with the wet lease back in the day. Well, the service is no longer much different and all of the FAs are big boys and girls perfectly capable of filling out paperwork. Airlines like United that fly to numerous continents and are major international players just have a single operation. Why do we need a seperate division to serve 8-11 cities in Europe? We merged in the Shuttle and even operated Metrojet without fences, but seperate transatlantic (not even international, as I understand it South America could be operated by domestic). In reality, it serves no purpose whatsoever. I'm sure some very senior folks would disagree. <_<

I was "on international/in the division" (I even felt silly saying it) and remember sitting around on reserve with others for a month while domestic flights were canceling due to shortage of FAs. This was after they had begun wittling the FA workforce down to its current state of about half its original size.

 

[Whatnow?]

I agree, the division is the cause of many a cancellation come the bad weather days or the days when a flight takes a MAJOR mechanical delay. This summer on PHW ITD they ran soo short it was ridiculous. Now, that our Seasonal European flying has ended ( gee...do other airlines fly to Europe seasonally?) we go to the other extreme of ITD being OVERSTAFFED. The cancellation of those European flights everybody is being soo dramatic about was due to lack of staffing not F/A sick calls. Amazing, that a few sick F/A's could create a message board topic several months after the whole thing happened. This isn't the first time USAirways has had to cancel a flight because of staffing problems and by the looks of things....it sure as heck won't be the last! Whoever is in charge of staffing levels that determine F/A furloughs must also be in charge of Marketing at USAirways!

 

[etops1]

YOUR DEFINATELY RIGHT . I E-MAILED THE COMPANY ABOUT THIS ISSUE. THEY SAID THAT IT WAS VERY INEFICIENT TO HAVE A FENCE. THEY TRIED TO GET RID IF IT LAST YEAR BUT COULD NOT GET AFA TO AGREE. THEY SAID THAT MOVING FOWARD THE COMPANY HAS TO CREAT A MORE EFICIENT OPERATION AND REMOVAL OF THE FENCE IS A MAJOR ITEM THAT IS NEEDED. SO LOOK FOR THE FENCE TO BE GONE IN 2005. MY SOURCE WAS JERRY GLASS.

 

[PITbull]

Stew,

Excellent post and so very true. The air we breath on a plane is "recycled air". There is much bacteria in the ventilation system. Sickness can take a few days to effect you once exposed and can spread everywhere. If you have a compromised immune system, will effect you more frequently and severely, being most f/as are coming to work sick. On top of that, some f/as cannot afford co-pays for treatment, take the time off to see a Doctor or make an appointment timely, and then pay for the prescription at high co-pays. REALITY!!!!

I have been talking about this issue since the summer (June) when they implemented the sick pay penalties. Hell, AFA even picketed. But management stated that f/as were not forced to come to work ill, and that they did not see this as being a problem, since the pay penalties would ensure "NO FRUAD". Basically, they said AFA was exaggerating this issue with f/as coming to work sick. Well folks, f/as are sick. Some are so ill, that even with the pay penalties in place, they still can't come to work. And, for some of our reserves, they can't afford to get treatment either!

Now, management cites this is a problem. So their remedy.......threaten TERMINATION.. That will fix'em for being sick.
Again, whether the public cares about this or not....IT WILL BE TOLD.

 

[PITbull]

In my opinion, it's the few folks that interpret sick time as "schedule adjustment" time that have ruined this for everyone (not just F/As). I believe that the unions should look at negotiating something like a reduction (or no) penalty for folks verifying their illness by submitting Doctor's notes or other means. I agree that folks on reserve are being paid to be available. If you're on reserve and NOT available, you're a thief, plain and simple. If you're sick, then call scheduling and take a sick day. Reserves (at least pilots) aren't even really penalized, since they can't be paid less than the guarantee. It's a matter of professionalism. If the groups wish to be treated like professionals, then they need to act like professionals.

Oldie,

Your point with supplying a Dr. note to legitimize the illness is a valid solution if you were dealing with a management with rational minds. Only problem is, this management THINKS THAT THE DOCTORS ARE LIARS AND FRAUDS TOO,

If management didn't hire the physician, and they are not on their payroll, they frankly, don't believe the excuse.

Professionalism? Two way street. Our pilots last year were under the gun of providing legitimate excuses for sick occurences, and management was battling ALPA. Roy Freulich issued an MEC e-line and basically told the pilots how to respond to the documentation that was being required. Your sick pay penalty is presently being arbitrated; just like AFA.

Who is treating who with professionalism and which groups are being viewed as professional by this management? Pilots gave 1/2 billion in concessions, your pensions were terminated, and you guys have OVER 268 grievances outstanding....

 

[TVLOOPS]

Working for this company I have been in and out of unions several times. In theory the work rules are for all unions members in that craft. Not just the 1% that take advantage of the situation.

The company work rules and Union rules do not allow the company (UAIR) to discriminate only against the 1% of the people who abuse.

Example: At one station I worked an employee was fired. The Union found out that at different stations the local station managers allowed the same practice. The fired employee was rehired.

A good Union allows only one rule for all card carrying members.

And that's why we have Unions.

 

[PITbull]

Not to piss anybody off but our work and conduct rules say that you are to be in base @ 1500 to be on duty in case you are needed. It was in the rules when we signed the contract to work here.
As far as not being able to afford two places, commuting is a priviledge, not a right. Any time I have switched bases, I have moved to within 2 hours of that base so that I could be in base to do my job.
Some people may not have the luxury of doing that and perhaps as one person said earlier, it may be time to quit and move on if you can not be accountable for the job you were hired to do.

Newbie,


As a f/a who SWITCHED bases, was it a voluntary switch or forced? Were you in a pay cut consession such as this one for our reserves at the time? Those in NOV. who are part of the NEW system, took a 38% pay cut in NOV. for the 95 hour f/a and the 105 took a 40% slice. Two places to live or move with no moving pay, I DON'T THINK SO....

Just curious, not to piss you off, but are you a furloughee or a senior U f/a? You don't have to answer, I can pretty much guess.

 

[PITbull]

See this is where I am flumoxed! FIVE sick calls per year? I have called out sick 5 times over the last SEVEN Years Total and I'm not the picture of health either, I'm overweight, over the hill pushing 50 like there is no tomorrow.

If you don't want to lose the 5 hours off the reserve minimum then drag your assets into work. Don't want an out of base penaly/write up? Then be in base.

These are not foriegn concepts for those of us who work "At Will" and can have our jobs yanked out from under us because the boss doesn't like our necktie.

This kind of stuff is the fatal flaw of the union movement. you penalize the over acheiver while protecting the drones. This ia why those of us who are self reliant over acheivers generally do not join unions while those who seek security and protection for their slothfulness do.

This DOES NOT mean that US Airways employees do not work very hard. It means that there is a percentage of them (like in every company) that "Hide" and do the bare or less than bare minimum to survive knowing they get paid the same as those who truly do care and bust their butts to keep guys like me happy. When labor and management can agree on pruning the "Dead Wood" (And both parties know exactly who needs to go) Then you can begin to have the kinds of improvements you need for the airline to flourish.

Bob,

The new policy IS NOT about 5 sick calls. That is not the argument or an arguement that is on the table. You can get terminated for sick without it being near your 5th. Management has enacted a 14 day sick policy on top of everything you've read here. Doesn't matter if its your 1st sick call or 5th. That was arbitrated last month and we wait for a decision by the arbitrator.. Another issue yet again.

 

[PITbull]

Well if your sick your sick that is the bottom line. But I would bet that there is a little of the not sick sydrome going around and it has always been my rule that when you go to far something gives so there we have it. If you sick go to the DR. if your not then somebody else will have to pull your weight if that is how you live your life so be it but don't defend everybody with a blanket statement.

just one mans opinion.........

THIS MANAGEMENT DOES NOT ACCEPT A DR. NOTE AS A LEGITIMATE EXCUSE FOR ILLNESS. and, not every illness deserves to seek medical treatment. We do not sit behind desks in an office where we can hide and sneeze to our hearts content. we are in public view the entire time we are on a plane; average 13 hours.

Folks have to understand the nature of the job first. We are NOT in the cockpit, where we can cough and sneeze and cough and wheeze, where we only get to infect 1 person; the other pilot in the seat.

Again, with a dr. note, it is still held against you. No where in the policy does it state unless you end up in ER. Management doesn't care if you go to ER, they STILL hold it against the f/a. Excessive sick is a prime example. With dr. note YOU CAN STILL AND WILL BE TERMINATED FOR EXCESSIVE SICK.

If you are excessively ill, management wants you on a Medical leave. Then again, they may not accept that either. Has been done numerous times already where f/as have even been denied a request for UNPAID medical leave for illness.

So, is the problem sick, or a staffing issue? What do you do with 82% female profession that may find themselves preganant and have morning sickenss or any time sickeness? Should they just go off line. THERE IS NO MATERNITY COVERAGE FOR WAGES OR LTD. Or should you just quit if you find yourself pregnant?

I guess most don't even give a damn about this group.

 

[PITbull]

Use your Head,

Geezus....I'm not speaking about calling in sick when your not sick. I am sure this happens in every Company there is and in every group, management alike that have fakers. REGARDLESS OF WHAT THIS MANAGAGEMENT CITES AS THE REASON, THEY ARE NOT BEING FORTHRIGHT. They are about to do more furloughs, I suspect in January, and are getting policies in place to force the staff they have left to come to work even ill.

I'm talking about a group that is ill. And the environment we work in. I 've have spoke to this in many previous posts ad nauseum. You folks are still on this "thought band wagon" that we are talking about only abuse by few, and making policies that are driven by the "lowest common denominator" that is NOT indicative of the group as a whole.

You have got to stop already with the fake sick call crap.