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Updated Flight Attendant Sick Policy
- Thread starter exusairways
- Start date
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
PITbull said:
If you are sick you are suppose to inform scheduling before they assign you a trip, not after.
The majority of the latter are either out of base or just don't want to go to work.
We should go to a system where everyone does one or two months of reserve a year instead of having people be on reserve for 16 years.
Like I said, the job of a reserve is to be available to cover trips. I you choose to live out of base that's your choice and your problem. If you don't want the job, then quit. This is a business, not a hobby so you and your family can fly for free.
phllax
Veteran
I am one of those passengers that was affected by the 2nd example (replacing int'l crew w/ another base). I was not on the outbound, but the return. They had to charter a Beech King Air to get the 4 FA's from CLT-to PHL at 4am. They finally arrived at PHL and took off again to FCO at 6am, with only 30 minutes to spare until the 4 PHL based FA's timed out.
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
WOW! Did I know there would be a sleepless night for Pitbull tonight! Man, someone should have posted this after she went to bed. Now I will have to stop by her office tomorrow, on my way to the gym and drop off a pot of coffee for her. :unsure:
My dear you have a contradicted yourself here a couple of times and I quote, "With this new reserve system, because the reserves now have a difficult time reaching their flying option, there 8.4% paycut has turned into a whooping 38% pay cut, just using the 95hour flyer as an example."
And
'Worst part of that, you may not even be called for a trip the entire duty period time of 4 or 5 days. Not only that, you are only receiving your garantee of 71 hours in which you have to maintain two residences if you happen to live out of base. "
But then you say:
"you don't have enough employees to cover the daily operation. By disciplining us to death will not solve your problems.:"
Soooo, how is it we don't have enough employees to cover the daily operation, yet we have people that have not been called in 4-5 days and are not breaking quarantee?
Anotherpoint my dear: The reason flight attendants are "out of base" and are being tracked by this management is because THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY FOR TWO PLACES TO LIVE IN AND SIT AND SIT AND WAIT TO GET A TRIP. Worst part of that, you may not even be called for a trip the entire duty period time of 4 or 5 days.
Commuting is a luxury and is something that the employee has chosen to do. If you can't afford two places, then I would suggest moving back to base!
Lastly, I would ask, is it unfair for the compamy to ask for 2 hours notice, versus being told you are sick upon assignment? If I were a crew scheduler and had to determine if we had staffing for irreuglar operations, I should be able to look at the number of available reserves and say yes, we can cover that trip. Instead it is, well if 50% of them don't sick the trip on assignment, then we should be OK. If I am showing 12 active, available and legal reserves available to call, should I have to call all 12 to cover a 757 trip! The company must have accurate numbers in order to plan for operational needs....you can't do that when you are never really sure how many people you have available.
My dear you have a contradicted yourself here a couple of times and I quote, "With this new reserve system, because the reserves now have a difficult time reaching their flying option, there 8.4% paycut has turned into a whooping 38% pay cut, just using the 95hour flyer as an example."
And
'Worst part of that, you may not even be called for a trip the entire duty period time of 4 or 5 days. Not only that, you are only receiving your garantee of 71 hours in which you have to maintain two residences if you happen to live out of base. "
But then you say:
"you don't have enough employees to cover the daily operation. By disciplining us to death will not solve your problems.:"
Soooo, how is it we don't have enough employees to cover the daily operation, yet we have people that have not been called in 4-5 days and are not breaking quarantee?
Anotherpoint my dear: The reason flight attendants are "out of base" and are being tracked by this management is because THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY FOR TWO PLACES TO LIVE IN AND SIT AND SIT AND WAIT TO GET A TRIP. Worst part of that, you may not even be called for a trip the entire duty period time of 4 or 5 days.
Commuting is a luxury and is something that the employee has chosen to do. If you can't afford two places, then I would suggest moving back to base!
Lastly, I would ask, is it unfair for the compamy to ask for 2 hours notice, versus being told you are sick upon assignment? If I were a crew scheduler and had to determine if we had staffing for irreuglar operations, I should be able to look at the number of available reserves and say yes, we can cover that trip. Instead it is, well if 50% of them don't sick the trip on assignment, then we should be OK. If I am showing 12 active, available and legal reserves available to call, should I have to call all 12 to cover a 757 trip! The company must have accurate numbers in order to plan for operational needs....you can't do that when you are never really sure how many people you have available.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
MMW,
So, I guess this was your idea.
If you want to blame f/as for your inability to plan for irregular operations, that's your perogative.
If YOU state that we hve a sick problem and that you can't get f/as to fly, please expaling why ONLY 20 f/as out of approx 1800 reserves, SYSTEM WIDE, made their option flying obligation?
You have just proved how "clueless" menagement is..I guess this is another hint to prepare to furlough many f/as and get policy in place to force the remaining staff you have to come to work sick.
The issue is not the two hours, if f/as, reserve, in particular call in sick for their illness even if crew sched does NOT get to them, to fly at all. They will Automatically, BE PENALIZED TO THEIR GUARANTEE. Can you not see this? Read the policy on sick 10 times again, and then write out.
So, I guess this was your idea.
If you want to blame f/as for your inability to plan for irregular operations, that's your perogative.
If YOU state that we hve a sick problem and that you can't get f/as to fly, please expaling why ONLY 20 f/as out of approx 1800 reserves, SYSTEM WIDE, made their option flying obligation?
You have just proved how "clueless" menagement is..I guess this is another hint to prepare to furlough many f/as and get policy in place to force the remaining staff you have to come to work sick.
The issue is not the two hours, if f/as, reserve, in particular call in sick for their illness even if crew sched does NOT get to them, to fly at all. They will Automatically, BE PENALIZED TO THEIR GUARANTEE. Can you not see this? Read the policy on sick 10 times again, and then write out.
goodstew
Member
- Sep 23, 2003
- 46
- 4
With this new policy is actually good news for all unemployed flight attendants! US Airways will be hiring thousands of flight attendants by next Easter! They appear to intend on firing most of us.
I don't know what the company is thinking. We do not have enough F/A's to cover normal operations on some days and not at all during irreg. ops. I am a 14 year reserve on PHW. (held a block for approx 15 month my whole career - believe me, I paid those dues) You can not believe the zombies we have walking around the crew room. EVERYONE is sick. The passengers are sick. We can not call in sick - the new system does not make it possible. The new system also does not make it possible to come to work when when you are on duty. Without the opportunity to waive my INV days, I can sit for 4 days on duty without being called and then sit for 3 more, on duty being called by sched every day but not able to work into my INV days. My friend took a sick call the other night because his flying partner had a fever so high that he could feel her radiating sitting next to her at the briefing. She was too afraid/poor to call off sick so he did. Refused to fly with her. Now there is a good chance that 8 other F/A's and 260 passengers are in hospital. Do I blame her? NO. I blame the short-sighted and vindictive management. They know and they don't care.
Instead of cheese or cookies this year. Perhaps management could send us some anitbiotics! I myself was in bed with 103 temp barfing into a can during the last snowstorm. I was basically called a liar and mildly threatened by scheduling when they called to cover a trip.
I am a healthy guy...500+ sick hours in my bank. Squeeky clean record despite 14 year reserve status. I have been unable to come to work 4 times because I was sick just since July. Why am I so sick all of a sudden? Lots of reasons that have been discussed here. Why does the company feel the need to threaten me with termination if I call in sick one more time? I top out in my salary this month.
My superior customer service delivery and my experience with emergency situations are now considered a drain on the company. I cost too much. Funny, I always assumed part of my job as a 'salesman' was to bring people back and CREATE revenue...I am now getting used to the idea that I am indeed as PITBULL says, just a warm body. Do I get paid extra if I am extra warm? Maybe I will come to work next time my temp hits 103!
I don't know what the company is thinking. We do not have enough F/A's to cover normal operations on some days and not at all during irreg. ops. I am a 14 year reserve on PHW. (held a block for approx 15 month my whole career - believe me, I paid those dues) You can not believe the zombies we have walking around the crew room. EVERYONE is sick. The passengers are sick. We can not call in sick - the new system does not make it possible. The new system also does not make it possible to come to work when when you are on duty. Without the opportunity to waive my INV days, I can sit for 4 days on duty without being called and then sit for 3 more, on duty being called by sched every day but not able to work into my INV days. My friend took a sick call the other night because his flying partner had a fever so high that he could feel her radiating sitting next to her at the briefing. She was too afraid/poor to call off sick so he did. Refused to fly with her. Now there is a good chance that 8 other F/A's and 260 passengers are in hospital. Do I blame her? NO. I blame the short-sighted and vindictive management. They know and they don't care.
Instead of cheese or cookies this year. Perhaps management could send us some anitbiotics! I myself was in bed with 103 temp barfing into a can during the last snowstorm. I was basically called a liar and mildly threatened by scheduling when they called to cover a trip.
I am a healthy guy...500+ sick hours in my bank. Squeeky clean record despite 14 year reserve status. I have been unable to come to work 4 times because I was sick just since July. Why am I so sick all of a sudden? Lots of reasons that have been discussed here. Why does the company feel the need to threaten me with termination if I call in sick one more time? I top out in my salary this month.
My superior customer service delivery and my experience with emergency situations are now considered a drain on the company. I cost too much. Funny, I always assumed part of my job as a 'salesman' was to bring people back and CREATE revenue...I am now getting used to the idea that I am indeed as PITBULL says, just a warm body. Do I get paid extra if I am extra warm? Maybe I will come to work next time my temp hits 103!
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
In my opinion, it's the few folks that interpret sick time as "schedule adjustment" time that have ruined this for everyone (not just F/As). I believe that the unions should look at negotiating something like a reduction (or no) penalty for folks verifying their illness by submitting Doctor's notes or other means. I agree that folks on reserve are being paid to be available. If you're on reserve and NOT available, you're a thief, plain and simple. If you're sick, then call scheduling and take a sick day. Reserves (at least pilots) aren't even really penalized, since they can't be paid less than the guarantee. It's a matter of professionalism. If the groups wish to be treated like professionals, then they need to act like professionals.
Smartest Loser
Senior
- Jun 20, 2003
- 313
- 0
I tend to look at things differently,
This is USAirways system …NOT the Unions. Therefore, who’s burden does this fall on to fix the problem. Not the F/A’s…??? Why go after F/A’s that follow the rules and make it hard for everyone else because the system is broke…??
NEWS FLASH….This is the cold & flu season…People are gonna be sick. Being coupe up with just 1 sick person in an airplane for hours your chances of getting sick go way up.
I say FIX THE SYSTEM…don’t make rules up and punish other people at the expense of a few.
SL
This is USAirways system …NOT the Unions. Therefore, who’s burden does this fall on to fix the problem. Not the F/A’s…??? Why go after F/A’s that follow the rules and make it hard for everyone else because the system is broke…??
NEWS FLASH….This is the cold & flu season…People are gonna be sick. Being coupe up with just 1 sick person in an airplane for hours your chances of getting sick go way up.
I say FIX THE SYSTEM…don’t make rules up and punish other people at the expense of a few.
SL
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
How can they fix the system without better rules? Your argument is silly. Rather than defend folks that abuse company policy, the union and other F/As should take a stand against them. That's what would fix he system. You're correct, it's NOT a union problem. It's a company problem, and they're dealing with it. I personally believe that with some oher incentives, like holiday pay, extra vacation time or something, that a more positive response could be gained by management, but they are under no obligation to provide such. If folks don't want to work here (and I really can't blame some of them) then they should leave. If they stay, they need to be serious about their careers.Smartest Loser said:I tend to look at things differently,
This is USAirways system …NOT the Unions. Therefore, who’s burden does this fall on to fix the problem. Not the F/A’s…??? Why go after F/A’s that follow the rules and make it hard for everyone else because the system is broke…??
NEWS FLASH….This is the cold & flu season…People are gonna be sick. Being coupe up with just 1 sick person in an airplane for hours your chances of getting sick go way up.
I say FIX THE SYSTEM…don’t make rules up and punish other people at the expense of a few.
SL
songbirdstew
Senior
- Sep 10, 2003
- 478
- 51
Not to piss anybody off but our work and conduct rules say that you are to be in base @ 1500 to be on duty in case you are needed. It was in the rules when we signed the contract to work here.
As far as not being able to afford two places, commuting is a priviledge, not a right. Any time I have switched bases, I have moved to within 2 hours of that base so that I could be in base to do my job.
Some people may not have the luxury of doing that and perhaps as one person said earlier, it may be time to quit and move on if you can not be accountable for the job you were hired to do.
As far as not being able to afford two places, commuting is a priviledge, not a right. Any time I have switched bases, I have moved to within 2 hours of that base so that I could be in base to do my job.
Some people may not have the luxury of doing that and perhaps as one person said earlier, it may be time to quit and move on if you can not be accountable for the job you were hired to do.
airlineorphan
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 380
- 0
Ya know, if the company hadn't laid off f/a's to the bone, they might have enough play in the reserve system to cover trips. Did anyone ever think of that?
Reliability, huh? When you lay people off on the level this company has done, it becomes clear that this sick policy is about trying to skate on as thin a layer of ice as they can get. You skate on thin ice, you fall through. If they really want reliability then they need enough redundancy in the reserves that a really bad flu season (which is already unfolding) won't cripple the company like a storm front that hits all three hubs.
But that would require them to look up from their beancounting.
In solidarity,
Airlineorphan
P.S. Has Rob Fuhr ever gotten sick enough that it would not be safe for him to work in the capacity of a f/a?
Reliability, huh? When you lay people off on the level this company has done, it becomes clear that this sick policy is about trying to skate on as thin a layer of ice as they can get. You skate on thin ice, you fall through. If they really want reliability then they need enough redundancy in the reserves that a really bad flu season (which is already unfolding) won't cripple the company like a storm front that hits all three hubs.
But that would require them to look up from their beancounting.
In solidarity,
Airlineorphan
P.S. Has Rob Fuhr ever gotten sick enough that it would not be safe for him to work in the capacity of a f/a?
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
So which is it? If you are saying that only 1% of reserves made their time, and 99% did not, then how is it we are short staffed? BullPit!
I am not blaming anyone for our inability to plan for irregular ops. I am simply stating that if I were a crew sched duty manager and asked on the operations conference call if I have adaquate staffing in all bases, what should my answer be? If, on average, I have to call 10 F/A's to find 4 that will be able to work. how prepared do you think we are? If you are a F/A and are sick, but don't notify scheduling, prior to trip assignment, then I do think it is wrong - pay penalty or not. If you are sick, you are sick. I have said before I don't agree with the pay penalty and that there should be an accrual penalty instead. This would bang that abusers and spare the legit sick callers.
I am not blaming anyone for our inability to plan for irregular ops. I am simply stating that if I were a crew sched duty manager and asked on the operations conference call if I have adaquate staffing in all bases, what should my answer be? If, on average, I have to call 10 F/A's to find 4 that will be able to work. how prepared do you think we are? If you are a F/A and are sick, but don't notify scheduling, prior to trip assignment, then I do think it is wrong - pay penalty or not. If you are sick, you are sick. I have said before I don't agree with the pay penalty and that there should be an accrual penalty instead. This would bang that abusers and spare the legit sick callers.
fatherabraham
Veteran
- Sep 27, 2002
- 814
- 354
all,
Not a f/a.
That being said i will toss in my 2cents
This Mgt team has managed to turn many ( if not most ) of the hard working ,loyal,
go beyond the call of duty type employee into the enemy who will no longer make up for the " abusers of contract " mentioned above. Employees have learned the hard way that this Mgt team cannot be trusted and will steal $ from our pockets with their unethical interpretations of our concessionary contract. We are now left to fully exploit the intent of contract right back at them. What comes around....
BTW... I will be using several months of sick time beginning thursday
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to my web board friends
Not a f/a.
That being said i will toss in my 2cents
This Mgt team has managed to turn many ( if not most ) of the hard working ,loyal,
go beyond the call of duty type employee into the enemy who will no longer make up for the " abusers of contract " mentioned above. Employees have learned the hard way that this Mgt team cannot be trusted and will steal $ from our pockets with their unethical interpretations of our concessionary contract. We are now left to fully exploit the intent of contract right back at them. What comes around....
BTW... I will be using several months of sick time beginning thursday
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to my web board friends
Smartest Loser
Senior
- Jun 20, 2003
- 313
- 0
Oh my gosh....Better Rules...??? Better Rules...??oldiebutgoody said:How can they fix the system without better rules? Your argument is silly. Rather than defend folks that abuse company policy, the union and other F/As should take a stand against them. That's what would fix he system. You're correct, it's NOT a union problem. It's a company problem, and they're dealing with it.Smartest Loser said:I tend to look at things differently,
This is USAirways system …NOT the Unions. Therefore, who’s burden does this fall on to fix the problem. Not the F/A’s…??? Why go after F/A’s that follow the rules and make it hard for everyone else because the system is broke…??
NEWS FLASH….This is the cold & flu season…People are gonna be sick. Being coupe up with just 1 sick person in an airplane for hours your chances of getting sick go way up.
I say FIX THE SYSTEM…don’t make rules up and punish other people at the expense of a few.
SL
If my house burned down and they found out it was because of someone smoking in the bedroom...Then I make a rule, NO SMOKING IN THE BEDROOM. A few months later it catches fire again...Someone was smoking in the bathroom...OKay now, NO SMOKING IN THE BATHROOM.....ECT..!!
Get the point....NO matter how many rules you throw at a problem you will never solve it without first addressing the root of the problem. In this case, shortage of F/A's..!! Period.
Your idea about the F/A's union coming out against their own members....Thats absurd. I find it funny all of a sudden we have a F/A sick problem...?? Is it because we don't have enough rules...??
Wonder why.???? Ummmmmm...I know, let make a rule. LOL
SL
