If they are sick they should call in when they realize they are sick and not play Russian roulette with the company and passengers and take a chance on not being called out that late. I have flown with flight attendants who were not sick who called in sick 'just cause they could'. One flight attendant called off sick off a trip I was on because she woke up too late to take a shower at the hotel. While some may be legitimately sick, others are just sick and tired of being here. I flew international and heard the excuses for not wanting to go out at midnight when called out to replace a crew. I had so many tell me that they would just take a no-contact because it was better than having to go out that late. Tickets for international travel are expensive and the customer should not have to suffer for employees not wanting to work. When you bid the transatlantic service you know what is in store for you.
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Updated Flight Attendant Sick Policy
- Thread starter exusairways
- Start date
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #32
Piney & MmW,
Yes, the is always that famous "1%" that takes advantage of the system. Do none of your co-workers come in a few minutes late now then? Do none of your co-workers take a few extra minutes for lunch "to run an errand"? Maybe leave a few minutes early "to take the kid to soccer practice"? Maybe they should be fired for "taking advantage of the system.
"If you don't want to lose the 5 hours off the reserve minimum then drag your assets into work." This may be fine if you work in an office or something. I tried to be delicate in an earlier post about decompression and colds, but let me put it more bluntly. Ruptured eardrums are the least of the problem. How would you like your sinus' hanging from your nostrals. "Dragging your assets into work" might not be worth it. Yes, decompression is rare, but can you guarantee that it won't happen on any particular flight?
If you're feeling bad, you can take any drug that makes you feel better. You don't have to worry about a random drug test when you leave the office - where many of those "wonder drugs" can give a false positive. Bye-bye career.
And yes, it can be both ways - just ask management. THEY say we are overstaffed yet don't have enough reserve coverage. Could it be that crew sked isn't "managing" the reserves properly.
"If, on average, I have to call 10 F/A's to find 4 that will be able to work." MmW, your mistake here is calling this an "average" situation. You can bet your bippy that the situations mentioned in the letter that started this thread are the worst, most grevious that management could find.
"If you are a F/A and are sick, but don't notify scheduling, prior to trip assignment, then I do think it is wrong - pay penalty or not." If you work Monday-Friday and feel ill on Saturday, do you call your boss then to tell them you won't be in on Monday, or do you wait till Monday to see how you feel.
Jim
Yes, the is always that famous "1%" that takes advantage of the system. Do none of your co-workers come in a few minutes late now then? Do none of your co-workers take a few extra minutes for lunch "to run an errand"? Maybe leave a few minutes early "to take the kid to soccer practice"? Maybe they should be fired for "taking advantage of the system.
"If you don't want to lose the 5 hours off the reserve minimum then drag your assets into work." This may be fine if you work in an office or something. I tried to be delicate in an earlier post about decompression and colds, but let me put it more bluntly. Ruptured eardrums are the least of the problem. How would you like your sinus' hanging from your nostrals. "Dragging your assets into work" might not be worth it. Yes, decompression is rare, but can you guarantee that it won't happen on any particular flight?
If you're feeling bad, you can take any drug that makes you feel better. You don't have to worry about a random drug test when you leave the office - where many of those "wonder drugs" can give a false positive. Bye-bye career.
And yes, it can be both ways - just ask management. THEY say we are overstaffed yet don't have enough reserve coverage. Could it be that crew sked isn't "managing" the reserves properly.
"If, on average, I have to call 10 F/A's to find 4 that will be able to work." MmW, your mistake here is calling this an "average" situation. You can bet your bippy that the situations mentioned in the letter that started this thread are the worst, most grevious that management could find.
"If you are a F/A and are sick, but don't notify scheduling, prior to trip assignment, then I do think it is wrong - pay penalty or not." If you work Monday-Friday and feel ill on Saturday, do you call your boss then to tell them you won't be in on Monday, or do you wait till Monday to see how you feel.
Jim
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
Sorry, but I think that ONLY the abusers will have a problem with this. So, if you have a problem with it....
If you're sick, you're sick. See a doctor and get a note. My doctor will even do it several days later if necessary. He knows me and trusts that if I say I'm sick, then I must be. If you've gotten a reputation of other than honesty, then that's another problem. My wife is a school teacher. She doesn't get half the breaks, or sick time, that UAIR F/As do, and she's working with germ monsters. If she got caught abusing sick time there would be no second chances, and the union couldn't help her either. You're right, it is a very small percentage that's ruining it for everyone. They should NOT be protected by the union. If that's the kind of battle your union chooses to fight, don't come crying when nobody supports you at contract or grievance time. There are THOUSANDS of folks that are awaiting recall from this company. If you don't like your job, quit. The company has a business to run, and if your job is cramping your lifestyle, then do something about it. QUIT!
If you're sick, you're sick. See a doctor and get a note. My doctor will even do it several days later if necessary. He knows me and trusts that if I say I'm sick, then I must be. If you've gotten a reputation of other than honesty, then that's another problem. My wife is a school teacher. She doesn't get half the breaks, or sick time, that UAIR F/As do, and she's working with germ monsters. If she got caught abusing sick time there would be no second chances, and the union couldn't help her either. You're right, it is a very small percentage that's ruining it for everyone. They should NOT be protected by the union. If that's the kind of battle your union chooses to fight, don't come crying when nobody supports you at contract or grievance time. There are THOUSANDS of folks that are awaiting recall from this company. If you don't like your job, quit. The company has a business to run, and if your job is cramping your lifestyle, then do something about it. QUIT!
Well if your sick your sick that is the bottom line. But I would bet that there is a little of the not sick sydrome going around and it has always been my rule that when you go to far something gives so there we have it. If you sick go to the DR. if your not then somebody else will have to pull your weight if that is how you live your life so be it but don't defend everybody with a blanket statement.
just one mans opinion.........
just one mans opinion.........
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
Everybody in this business has been in a situation where they don't know they're sick until the phone rings at 3 am. Then they find out that their sinuses are inflamed or that they have a fever. It's happened to me, as well. I just tell them the truth, and if they want a note, I get one for them. I'll talk to anyone they want me to. The ONLY reason this is an issue is because folks DO lie. Check out how many sick calls come in on sunny days in the summer or on holidays. No way you can convince me that suddenly an epidemic has occurred just because it's Halloween or the 4th of July. I admit that the entire company is short staffed on most days, but dumping on your compatriots to weasel another day off is WRONG! As far as I know, ALL the union contracts have some kind of a provision for the company to require a doctor's note if they choose, but they have to bear the cost of the employee getting it. That seems more than fair to me. Let me point out that I am NOT a big supporter of management for the most part, but I support people of low integrity even less. <_<
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #36
oldie,
Now you've hit the nail on the head. The provision for a doctor's note should be enough to tell who is really sick and who is abusing the policy.
I have read the letter that started this 4 times now and have yet to see where getting a doctor's note will eliminate the penalties given. The way I read it, if you're sick 6 times in some unspecified period you're in trouble - doctor's note or not.
Yes, there are the "1%" among any group. They should be identified and dealt with. However, the intent seems to be to punish everybody for the sins of a few.
Jim
Now you've hit the nail on the head. The provision for a doctor's note should be enough to tell who is really sick and who is abusing the policy.
I have read the letter that started this 4 times now and have yet to see where getting a doctor's note will eliminate the penalties given. The way I read it, if you're sick 6 times in some unspecified period you're in trouble - doctor's note or not.
Yes, there are the "1%" among any group. They should be identified and dealt with. However, the intent seems to be to punish everybody for the sins of a few.
Jim
airlineorphan
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 380
- 0
I never called in sick once while I worked as a f/a before I had to take on for the team and hit the streets, but if I were sick enough that working would:
1) present an immediate hazard to myself, fellow crew members or passengers
or
2) cause me to get sicker to the point where I would be a hazard
I would call off sick.
Duh!!
But I don't usually go to the doctor when I get sick. In fact, getting out of bed and slogging off to wait and wait and wait in a doctor's office is rarely the best thing to do for the flu or a cold. For MOST illnesses, the fastest way to get better is to stay in bed, drink liquids and do all that tea drinking and chicken soup stuff.
How many of you go to the doctor everytime you get a cold or the flu? Seriously? Most of us mope about sleep a lot and whine a lot to our spouse if we've got one, and take some over the counter meds and use up a few boxes of tissue until we've polished our noses into a bright shade of red.
So, on the face of it, the process of getting that quantifiable and verifiable doctor's note is not necessarily the best means of getting that employee back on their feet and back at work (healthy enough that they aren't infecting others and causing a cascade of contagion).
But that stuff is common sense, so I don't expect management to understand it.
I do have a question. Being laid off, I'm not up on the latest medical insurance. What copayment are employees generally responsible for when they drag their snuffly noses, scratchy throats and upset tummies to a marathon session in their Dr.'s waiting room? Do elective Dr.'s notes (as opposed to those ordered by the company) cost the employee more money?
Hold onto your hats, folks. It's going to be a bad flu season!
In solidarity,
Airlineorphan
1) present an immediate hazard to myself, fellow crew members or passengers
or
2) cause me to get sicker to the point where I would be a hazard
I would call off sick.
Duh!!
But I don't usually go to the doctor when I get sick. In fact, getting out of bed and slogging off to wait and wait and wait in a doctor's office is rarely the best thing to do for the flu or a cold. For MOST illnesses, the fastest way to get better is to stay in bed, drink liquids and do all that tea drinking and chicken soup stuff.
How many of you go to the doctor everytime you get a cold or the flu? Seriously? Most of us mope about sleep a lot and whine a lot to our spouse if we've got one, and take some over the counter meds and use up a few boxes of tissue until we've polished our noses into a bright shade of red.
So, on the face of it, the process of getting that quantifiable and verifiable doctor's note is not necessarily the best means of getting that employee back on their feet and back at work (healthy enough that they aren't infecting others and causing a cascade of contagion).
But that stuff is common sense, so I don't expect management to understand it.
I do have a question. Being laid off, I'm not up on the latest medical insurance. What copayment are employees generally responsible for when they drag their snuffly noses, scratchy throats and upset tummies to a marathon session in their Dr.'s waiting room? Do elective Dr.'s notes (as opposed to those ordered by the company) cost the employee more money?
Hold onto your hats, folks. It's going to be a bad flu season!
In solidarity,
Airlineorphan
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #38
Orphan,
I agree that most of us don't go to the doctor for the "routine" illness. But management has the tool in the doctor's note to find the abusers. Instead they chose to punish all for the misdeeds of the few with a pay penalty. Didn't matter if you're really sick or not, you get a 5 hour pay cut for calling in sick. That apparently didn't cure the problem few (but punished everyone else), so no there's this new policy.
I'll let PitBull or another f/a answer the questions on co-pay, etc. since it might be different from the pilots'. For us it is depends on specialist or not (requirement is for a doctor "of the specialty to diagnose the illness") and company pays all out of pocket expenses (plus reasonable transportation costs).
Oh - I think I see the problem. Requiring a doctor's note costs the company money. Penalizing everyone for being sick doesn't.
Jim
I agree that most of us don't go to the doctor for the "routine" illness. But management has the tool in the doctor's note to find the abusers. Instead they chose to punish all for the misdeeds of the few with a pay penalty. Didn't matter if you're really sick or not, you get a 5 hour pay cut for calling in sick. That apparently didn't cure the problem few (but punished everyone else), so no there's this new policy.
I'll let PitBull or another f/a answer the questions on co-pay, etc. since it might be different from the pilots'. For us it is depends on specialist or not (requirement is for a doctor "of the specialty to diagnose the illness") and company pays all out of pocket expenses (plus reasonable transportation costs).
Oh - I think I see the problem. Requiring a doctor's note costs the company money. Penalizing everyone for being sick doesn't.
Jim
airlineorphan
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 380
- 0
Thanks BoeingBoy,
I think the bottom line is that it is all about management's fantasy that they can skate on thin ice and not fall through. If they fall through, then they blame the ice for failing to hold them instead of making sure the ice was thick enough to begin with.
Unfortunately with this group of clowns we all get a cold bath! The only way for us to stay warm is going to be to huddle together in solidarity!
-Airlineorphan
I think the bottom line is that it is all about management's fantasy that they can skate on thin ice and not fall through. If they fall through, then they blame the ice for failing to hold them instead of making sure the ice was thick enough to begin with.
Unfortunately with this group of clowns we all get a cold bath! The only way for us to stay warm is going to be to huddle together in solidarity!
-Airlineorphan
firstamendment
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 1,348
- 0
If there are so many abusers of the sick policy, perhaps management should stop blaming the flight attendants and look at how their lack of leadership is creating employees who would rather not deal with the bull**** and just stay home...but why would I expect this team to do any different?
airlineorphan
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 380
- 0
Or both!
-Airlineorphan
-Airlineorphan
Colby
Senior
- Sep 30, 2003
- 487
- 0
Good GOD, I just read ALL of this and can honestly say....Just about everyone has a point here.
Lets just say.... when I signed up with U I knew I would be sitting Reserve for A LONG TIME... I moved from my hometown to my Base...15 min from the Airport.
Now I am Furloughed and Still live 15 min from the airport , but unfortunately all of us that lived w/in the required distance from our Bases are FURLOUGHED... and the poor F/As that held lines and THOUGHT they could buy that house in hills, now find themselves having to be w/in a required distance from the airport.
Did I ever call in sick 3-4 hours before a trip...Sometimes... Did I ever call off when quick called...once or twice. Do I feel that too many F/A's took advantage of their sick calls....ABSOLUTELY.... I knew a lot of them that lived out of base and if they had a Commuting problem...they'd simply call off sick. Well, unfortunately now all the F/A's are going to have to pay for it. Oh yeah and lets not forget...Did I Ever fly Sick.... Bet your life....last year when I couldn't make gaurantee and sat on quick call everyday.... If the call came in....I went out !!!!
Did management OVER FURLOUGH F/A's Probably!!! But you know what... Do me the favor and DO NOT CALL ME BACK ....at least not right now....
I happen to be enjoying my Holidays not being strapped to a Pager or my Cell Phone..... I can actually sleep all night with it OFF !!!!
Lets just say.... when I signed up with U I knew I would be sitting Reserve for A LONG TIME... I moved from my hometown to my Base...15 min from the Airport.
Now I am Furloughed and Still live 15 min from the airport , but unfortunately all of us that lived w/in the required distance from our Bases are FURLOUGHED... and the poor F/As that held lines and THOUGHT they could buy that house in hills, now find themselves having to be w/in a required distance from the airport.
Did I ever call in sick 3-4 hours before a trip...Sometimes... Did I ever call off when quick called...once or twice. Do I feel that too many F/A's took advantage of their sick calls....ABSOLUTELY.... I knew a lot of them that lived out of base and if they had a Commuting problem...they'd simply call off sick. Well, unfortunately now all the F/A's are going to have to pay for it. Oh yeah and lets not forget...Did I Ever fly Sick.... Bet your life....last year when I couldn't make gaurantee and sat on quick call everyday.... If the call came in....I went out !!!!
Did management OVER FURLOUGH F/A's Probably!!! But you know what... Do me the favor and DO NOT CALL ME BACK ....at least not right now....
I happen to be enjoying my Holidays not being strapped to a Pager or my Cell Phone..... I can actually sleep all night with it OFF !!!!
UseYourHead
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 720
- 0
Pit Bull,PITbull said:
IMHO-Calling in sick, when you are not sick, is stealing. Just because management has done things we are angry about does not change the fact that calling off sick, when you’re not sick, is stealing.
Calling in "on assignment is wrong, you will screw your fellow reserves when you do that.
Calling in when you cannot commute is stealing. If someone cannot afford to be in base and maintain a home elsewhere, they need to move or quit.
I have been on reserve since 1989, so I know all about what it is like. I stay in base when on call, 1000 miles from home. My fellow pilots can DEPEND on me, because I don't pull this kind of crap.
I have no respect for sick leave abusers, and we all cannot afford to support these kind of people, period.
A persons sick bank is not a cash fund, it is a benefit. Many of our crewmembers believe they are entitled to that money like it belongs to them, it does not.
Would you expect to get money back from health insurance at the end of the year, be-cause you did not call in sick?
firstamendment
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 1,348
- 0
UseYourHead,
Put a blanket on that hallo of yours, it's blinding.
Let me just say that this company forces you to lie. I have been witnessed to the discipline of many f/a's over the last 17 years because the f/a told the truth and instead of an understanding management, they were disciplined or suspended. Nowhere is this as true as the case of commuters that couldn't get to work due to the company's fault and not the employee. Many didn't want to call in sick and felt they should tell the truth just to get screwed. Now I know our new commuting policy has helped here, but the point is that if the company weren't so desperate to fire flight attendants, they wouldn't HAVE to lie.
I agree with you 100% as far as being in base while on duty. I am as sorry as can be that there is no base in the city of (you fill in the blank), but rules are rules and if you DO choose to "steal" your sick time if you use it because you can't get to work, then be ready to face the punishment if caught.
My friend, I am not downing your conviction for not cheating the company or stealing. Just make sure you are not taking a bottle of water, a cola, cookie, or napkin off of the airplane. And while we are at it, refuse that onboard cafe meal because it cost $10 cash only. To take one would be stealing. That heavy handedness of your just might come back to kick you in the fanny.
Put a blanket on that hallo of yours, it's blinding.
Let me just say that this company forces you to lie. I have been witnessed to the discipline of many f/a's over the last 17 years because the f/a told the truth and instead of an understanding management, they were disciplined or suspended. Nowhere is this as true as the case of commuters that couldn't get to work due to the company's fault and not the employee. Many didn't want to call in sick and felt they should tell the truth just to get screwed. Now I know our new commuting policy has helped here, but the point is that if the company weren't so desperate to fire flight attendants, they wouldn't HAVE to lie.I agree with you 100% as far as being in base while on duty. I am as sorry as can be that there is no base in the city of (you fill in the blank), but rules are rules and if you DO choose to "steal" your sick time if you use it because you can't get to work, then be ready to face the punishment if caught.
My friend, I am not downing your conviction for not cheating the company or stealing. Just make sure you are not taking a bottle of water, a cola, cookie, or napkin off of the airplane. And while we are at it, refuse that onboard cafe meal because it cost $10 cash only. To take one would be stealing. That heavy handedness of your just might come back to kick you in the fanny.
