ThirdSeatHero
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Read that section in its entirety, with its exceptions/exclusions it most certainly is not Date Of Hire.
UA/CO Merger Thread-Post Announcement
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Read that section in its entirety, with its exceptions/exclusions it most certainly is not Date Of Hire.
Well lets see what each union has to say next year. If this gets approved by the DOJ/Shareholders then we can start to worry. Neither union will talk with the other airlines employees untill after the merger has closed. So give it 8-12 months before they come knocking at our doors.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
All true where two unions are involved.
The mechanics at CAL & UAL are both teamsters, and won't talk to anyone in the mechanic ranks, thats the problem.
And just to clarify, I don't think many here have any problem with a negotiated/arbitrated settlement if it came to that, its just that the mechanic group was promised "the world" by teamsters organizers and all of it, so far, has been lies. DOH is just the latest one.
Management flies out of seniority??
Please!! Retirees at United fly BP6, Employees fly BP-8A, ALL by Seniority. If a Junior manager got on before s senior Employee?? Man?? There'd be HELL to pay if he wasn't flying on a Non Rev positive space BP3 or Higher (BOD members fly BP1 and can bump a full fare passenger.) Many of the VP's and up are granted 25Yrs seniority for passes.
I've got 25+ years and I'm not conceeding ANYTHING to some JUNIOR management employee. I've been boarded before my Director.. CAL's management is in for a SHOCK! That ain't the flavor we savor. You worked your Butt OFF for your seniority! Boarding priority is nearly the ONLY reward for HAVING worked your Butt off. Granted I do make good money but THAT's because of the Job I do. And the OCC people or WHQ people?? If they're flyng for Pleasure and NOT Business?? You ain't got the YEARS?? Get to the back of the LINE slick!! I don't think we'll change that policy easily. Heck! I KNOW the Pilots won't change it AT ALL unless there's a "BOAT LOAD" of money in it FOR them. And for that matter, ME TOO!
(Look!!, Ain't no need in me Lieing, I can be bought for the right "poundage" of cash.. 20 lbs of $50's might do well)
What makes you think that UAL's non-rev rules will be adopted by the merged airline? CAL management is going to be running the show. Perhaps you are the one who is in for a shock.
767jetz
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OK folks. Looks like it's starting already. Let's take a step back. There's no need to start this in-fighting. Especially this early stage. Unless you hear something directly from your union reps, it is only rumor at this point. There is a TON of work to be done to get this integration right, and there will be much negotiating on everyone's part. In many cases they will probably take the best of both worlds. I doubt that things like non-rev are going to change much. Yes our new CEO will be Smisek (thank God). But the rest will be a blend from both companies. UA is a bigger company with more employees, so in many ways it makes sense to adopt UA's policies because it is easier (and cheaper) to have the smaller group adapt. But where UA's policies are outdated or just don't make sense, then I'm sure CO's policies will be adopted. Bottom line is that everyone needs to chill for a while and see how things start to unfold.
I guarantee you this has been a sore issue with many Senior CAL employees as well. Believe it or not there are a few over here too.
Please do read that section in its entirety, and understand the intent. Being that as "a merger of equals," current "active" employees of the IBT represented employees will not be furloughed or displaced. Guess what? It's not going to effect that many people, simply because of the fact that MX isn't in the same areas for the 2 companies to make much of a difference. There are what 14 CAL mechs in SFO, Surprise they all have more than 20, is that a factor? No.In fact long term I see more jobs being added to the MX base there. Where it does come in to play is perhaps EWR/LGA where there were some UAL people laid off, and a fairly junior CAL station. I would venture a guess that those people would be getting a recall notification fairly quickly due to the turnover rate there, with all their seniority. I'm not sure of the rights that the IND UAL guys have but do you for see a reopening of that station ? I'm sure those folks will be able to bid for other locations as positions and openings come up. Likewise keep in mind there are a lot of CAL mechs who would like to get back to DEN, have recall rights, and seniority. Fencing also helps you at UAL.. The main thing here is that, no more current employees get their heads chopped, after that its all Craft/DOH. So don't be too upset with the IBT at least the will kiss you before they do the other. Have a great day.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
Perhaps you lack perspective.
The formost issue at UAL is not among those you've posted, it is the fact that the teamsters have yet AGAIN been proven liars to the UAL membership.
During the representational campaign the mechanics AND furloughees were promised DOH in the event of a merger with CAL. NOT DOH with fences, NOT DOH with exceptions. This was assured in writing by (then) Airline Director Don Triechler.
This may be a trivial matter to some, but as someone who has benn in contact with a great deal of UALs furloughed, I can assure that they have not, and will not forget that they were lied to to obtain their vote in the representaional election.
You can offer the most resonable argument for DOH with restrictions, even those that might agree with you still resent being lied to by the IBT.
Obviously I didn't make the point clear, when the seniority lists are merged it will be by DOH. The only thing is is that Immediate recall of furloughed employees will not be at the expense current active employees. You need to keep this in mind. Have the teamsters lied to you? I don't know if they did or not. However I do believe that the furloughees will get their jobs back a lot sooner thanks to the merger To be frank, i doubt many of them would ever have seen a recall. Many work for CAL right now. There has been enough bloodletting at both companies over the years and without the merger those junior fellows in the stations mentioned in my previous post would not lose their, jobs. The fencing will protect that, It will not protect them from Mids once those recalled show up for work. Personally I'm all for DOH I have 26 years here and am not too worried about either way. If I were one of those on the street I'd be happy knowing my number is probably going to be called sooner rather than never.
Yes. It is a sore issue.
Should be DOH and that's the way it should be. Unless you are on some sort of specific business (company or union) it should be your Board Date (which is your date of hire) IMHO, if you would take an informal poll, I would think that ACTIVE employees would ride before retirees. We'll know how it would go, sometime in the far future.
As far as the IBT, (with the mechanics) I just wanted to ask, is there a lot of furloughed MX on both sides waiting for recall? And would "fencing" be the best solution (at least temporary), since our (CO) MX are negotiating a new contract.(Are the UA IBT members contract up yet?) I just read the IBT newsletter saying that our ramp contract is going forward, and they are starting to put together a contract. Since the operation side of this merger isn't going to happen for about 2 years, I'm guessing that would be the length of the contract. Plus the IBT are claiming victory for the stoppage of the closing of our 7 outstations. (BTW: anybody knows how many stations that UA has below wing?) That may add some good graces for the IBT. But let's see how this first contract turns out, and what happens afterward.
I tell you, things are going to get very interesting over the next few months. I just hope that there will be some informal (and/or formal) meetings between the workgroups on both sides. (and not just the Pilots) so we can bounce some ideas and suggestions off each other to make this merger work. Comments on this board don't tell the whole story, and I think that there are a lot of things in common that we share and we all know that our wages and benefits have taken a beating. Just sayin'...........
I could be wrong but should openings happen I think it will be the furghloughed mechanics gettng first crack at the jobs should they accept recall. I SERIOUSLY doubt that ANY curently working CAL mechanic go out the door just to recall a furghloughed UAL mechanic at ANY station. And with almost 10,000 furgloughed United mechanics I'm pretty Sure there would be PLENTY to choose from.. As far as INDY?? I think that case is CLOSED! I know there are guys who would Love to get back to Indy but that ship has SAILED!! I truly believe that SFO may very well see a new influx of mechanics and it's my hope that we call them as fast as they get their pants on. I don't have anything against vendors because some of them have done a pretty good job. BUT they're VENDORS!! Hello?!? Some stations could USE some UAL mechanics and I would LOVE to see our own or Continental's working with us in places like SAN, MCO, DCA, PHL, and ESPECIALLY EWR !!
And I mean NOW!!! This VERY MINUTE!!!
For the CAL mechanics I would have to go through the list in regards to furloughs, but there have been new hires within the last year with more going through indoctrination as we speak. There are CAL mechanics who have recall rights to stations downsized or closed for maintenance. On the UAL side, and I'm sure I will be soundly corrected by this as an understatement, there has been a bloodbath the last several years. They had a total closure of a major repair center ( IND) and I believe a serious cut in work in SFO, not to mention Line MX slashed throughout their system. Pretty much the same thing we at CAL went through in the early 90s.
Things will be interesting the next few months and years as well. I can say that informal meetings will occur with the UAL/CAL MX IBT Reps, prior to the merger. There will be a lot of work to do in regards to our (MX) work group after merger approval, the blending of work rules, scope, and pay among other things. For now all remains the same for both sides, negotiations continue.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
And obviously I didn't make the point clear.
The mechanics at UAL were promised DOH. Again, Not DOH with fences, Not DOH except furloughees, DOH.
Now with that said, these very same mechanics minus that false promise would probably agree with nearly all you've said. However, this lie is just one more in a string of lies proffered by the IBT. The UAL mechanics are growing quite tired of it.
BTW, I don't know whats been briefed at CAL but here at UAL in addition to the "no furlough bumps active" we are also being told that active will not be able to displace junior active. ie; An east coast mechanic bumped to SFO(or elsewhere on the system) will not be able to bump back to his east coast home station and displace a junior CAL mechanic.
Thats also not DOH.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
UAL has some furloughees, and an unfortunate truth it is, but its nowhere close to 10,000.
Probably closer to 4000-4500
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