UA/CO Merger Thread-Post Announcement

[adiruwho]

I could be wrong but should openings happen I think it will be the furghloughed mechanics gettng first crack at the jobs should they accept recall. I SERIOUSLY doubt that ANY curently working CAL mechanic go out the door just to recall a furghloughed UAL mechanic at ANY station. And with almost 10,000 furgloughed United mechanics I'm pretty Sure there would be PLENTY to choose from.. As far as INDY?? I think that case is CLOSED! I know there are guys who would Love to get back to Indy but that ship has SAILED!! I truly believe that SFO may very well see a new influx of mechanics and it's my hope that we call them as fast as they get their pants on. I don't have anything against vendors because some of them have done a pretty good job. BUT they're VENDORS!! Hello?!? Some stations could USE some UAL mechanics and I would LOVE to see our own or Continental's working with us in places like SAN, MCO, DCA, PHL, and ESPECIALLY EWR !!
And I mean NOW!!! This VERY MINUTE!!!

Yes the furloughed mechanics will get first crack at openings by seniority, and i agree about the outsourcing.

 

[adiruwho]

And obviously I didn't make the point clear.

The mechanics at UAL were promised DOH. Again, Not DOH with fences, Not DOH except furloughees, DOH.

Now with that said, these very same mechanics minus that false promise would probably agree with nearly all you've said. However, this lie is just one more in a string of lies proffered by the IBT. The UAL mechanics are growing quite tired of it.

BTW, I don't know whats been briefed at CAL but here at UAL in addition to the "no furlough bumps active" we are also being told that active will not be able to displace junior active. ie; An east coast mechanic bumped to SFO(or elsewhere on the system) will not be able to bump back to his east coast home station and displace a junior CAL mechanic.

Thats also not DOH.

 

[adiruwho]

And obviously I didn't make the point clear.

The mechanics at UAL were promised DOH. Again, Not DOH with fences, Not DOH except furloughees, DOH.

Now with that said, these very same mechanics minus that false promise would probably agree with nearly all you've said. However, this lie is just one more in a string of lies proffered by the IBT. The UAL mechanics are growing quite tired of it.

BTW, I don't know whats been briefed at CAL but here at UAL in addition to the "no furlough bumps active" we are also being told that active will not be able to displace junior active. ie; An east coast mechanic bumped to SFO(or elsewhere on the system) will not be able to bump back to his east coast home station and displace a junior CAL mechanic.

Thats also not DOH.

Tell me would one of those guys bumped to sfo have a chance of returning to their east coast homes any quicker without the merger? Those displaced people will have rights to recall as openings occur. If this were not a "merger of equals" they would be there now instead of the "junior CAL mechanic." Have patience you'll get there soon enough and probably have better days off, And like i said before this also applies to us at CAL, I can use Denver as an example, remember that was a hub and heavy mx base for us a while back Besides nothing is going to happen anytime in the near future so there's no point in getting all excited about it. Things can only get better but I do hope those displaced have an opportunity to return to where they left if they so choose..

 

[rjf1251]

that would work the SAME way at United. You'll GET to where you want to go WHEN there's an opening!! I don't believe anybody told you you were going to be able to Bump into any station that's fully manned JUST because you wanted to go there. If the station has openings you can BID there I'm pretty sure, But displacing junior mechanics JUST so you can go where YOU Choose?? I'd SERIOUSLY doubt that.. I don't think the IBT meant that if they ACTUALLY said that..

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Tell me would one of those guys bumped to sfo have a chance of returning to their east coast homes any quicker without the merger? Those displaced people will have rights to recall as openings occur. If this were not a "merger of equals" they would be there now instead of the "junior CAL mechanic." Have patience you'll get there soon enough and probably have better days off, And like i said before this also applies to us at CAL, I can use Denver as an example, remember that was a hub and heavy mx base for us a while back Besides nothing is going to happen anytime in the near future so there's no point in getting all excited about it. Things can only get better but I do hope those displaced have an opportunity to return to where they left if they so choose..

The answer to your first question resides simply in what good is seniority if you fail to honor it. I have absolutely no problem in honoring it regardless of who is senior. If there is some CAL mech bumped from DEN and living out of a car in some far flung line station, and with the closure of the merger he is suddenly senior to a UAL mech active in DEN he has every right to expect to be allowed to bump back to DEN on his seniority.

As far as getting excited goes I have no real reason to. With nearly 25 years at UAL this has no real affect on my position, that being said I will not fail to acknowledge those with whom I work who will be greatly affected by this merger, and their absolute right to get "excited" when their seniority is being overlooked or ignored.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

that would work the SAME way at United. You'll GET to where you want to go WHEN there's an opening!! I don't believe anybody told you you were going to be able to Bump into any station that's fully manned JUST because you wanted to go there. If the station has openings you can BID there I'm pretty sure, But displacing junior mechanics JUST so you can go where YOU Choose?? I'd SERIOUSLY doubt that.. I don't think the IBT meant that if they ACTUALLY said that..

This isn't simply about some senior mech suddenly saying "hey, I wanna bump to EWR cuz I can"

United has over the past couple of years closed some line stations.

Those Line mechanics displaced bumped throughout UALs system where their seniority would hold them.

As an example SFO has several east coast mechanics with rights back to those stations should UAL re-open them, or expand ops at those line stations downsized.

Now comes the UAL-CAL merger.

Suddenly several east coast stations have junior mechs at stations senior mechs have bumping rights to.

We're not talking furloughees here, both senior and junior are active mechanics.

Now as has been posted here "IF" this is a merger by DOH with the exception of furloughees not displacing active mechanics, then by DOH the senior active mech with bumping rights has every right to displace the junior active mechanic.

This works EQUALLY for both CAL AND UAL senior mechanics.

Now, speaking only for what was briefed here in SFO, when this question came up, we were told that senior mechs will not be able to exercise their bumping rights.

That gentlemen IS NOT DOH

 

[rjf1251]

This isn't simply about some senior mech suddenly saying "hey, I wanna bump to EWR cuz I can"

United has over the past couple of years closed some line stations.

Those Line mechanics displaced bumped throughout UALs system where their seniority would hold them.

As an example SFO has several east coast mechanics with rights back to those stations should UAL re-open them, or expand ops at those line stations downsized.

Now comes the UAL-CAL merger.

Suddenly several east coast stations have junior mechs at stations senior mechs have bumping rights to.

We're not talking furloughees here, both senior and junior are active mechanics.

Now as has been posted here "IF" this is a merger by DOH with the exception of furloughees not displacing active mechanics, then by DOH the senior active mech with bumping rights has every right to displace the junior active mechanic.

This works EQUALLY for both CAL AND UAL senior mechanics.

Now, speaking only for what was briefed here in SFO, when this question came up, we were told that senior mechs will not be able to exercise their bumping rights.

That gentlemen IS NOT DOH

DOH is not beng denied!!
You're asking for some CAL mechanic to lose HIS Gig so you can move where you want to. And you already HAVE a JOB?? So you want to move because YOU have seniority?? PLease!! They're EXACTLY right. . If some of the CAL guys want to move to Chicago or Denver and there's a mechanic that's senior on Furghlough would you agree that he has the right to return to His gig before the CAL mechanic moves there ?? YES!! And you know that's right!!. When an opening exists and eventually there WILL be openings, you'll get your crack, But Until Then?? You've got to be cool !! This is a process!! Let the Process Happen and quit being so "It's all about YOU" because it's NOT!!

 

[whoop whoop]

Obviously I didn't make the point clear, when the seniority lists are merged it will be by DOH. The only thing is is that Immediate recall of furloughed employees will not be at the expense current active employees. You need to keep this in mind. Have the teamsters lied to you? I don't know if they did or not. However I do believe that the furloughees will get their jobs back a lot sooner thanks to the merger To be frank, i doubt many of them would ever have seen a recall. Many work for CAL right now. There has been enough bloodletting at both companies over the years and without the merger those junior fellows in the stations mentioned in my previous post would not lose their, jobs. The fencing will protect that, It will not protect them from Mids once those recalled show up for work. Personally I'm all for DOH I have 26 years here and am not too worried about either way. If I were one of those on the street I'd be happy knowing my number is probably going to be called sooner rather than never.

So you have 26 years with CAL. In my quick adding some and subtracting some more, that puts you at an 84 hire. Are you a shop steward?

 

[767jetz]

I understand what ThirdSeatHero is saying about straight DOH. However you also have to look at what each group brings to the table. Integration using DOH often also has fences for a certain length of time so positions brought by each side stay with each side for an agreed upon time frame. This is not uncommon.

Everyone needs to chill out a bit here and let things unfold before getting wrapped around the axle so soon. We all took a beating over the last 9 years in our chosen careers. We can't expect to regain everything overnight because of a merger at other people's expense. If we all play our cards right it can mean opportunity for everyone. It is certainly not "every man for himself."

Let's keep focused on the real prize which is better pay, better work rules, more job security, and the opportunity to move forward after years of set backs. It won't work if we don't compromise and work together.

 

[767jetz]

On another note, looks like US Airway's CEO now supports the UA/CO merger. Go figure!

US Air CEO supports United/Continental merger

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

DOH is not beng denied!!
You're asking for some CAL mechanic to lose HIS Gig so you can move where you want to. And you already HAVE a JOB?? So you want to move because YOU have seniority?? PLease!! They're EXACTLY right. . If some of the CAL guys want to move to Chicago or Denver and there's a mechanic that's senior on Furghlough would you agree that he has the right to return to His gig before the CAL mechanic moves there ?? YES!! And you know that's right!!. When an opening exists and eventually there WILL be openings, you'll get your crack, But Until Then?? You've got to be cool !! This is a process!! Let the Process Happen and quit being so "It's all about YOU" because it's NOT!!

As I said in my inital post on this thread, the mechanics at UAL were promised DOH by the teamsters during their organizing drive in 07-08. Not DOH with fences, not DOH singling out furloughees, Not DOH with restrictions.

Straight DOH signed by Don Triechler.

Now, as I've also said previously on this thread, you can have the most reasonable and lucid arguments for DOH with restrictions/fences/no furlough bumps, you could have many affected mechanics agree completely with your position, it doesn't for one moment change the fact that the teamsters lied to the mechanics at UAL by promising straight date of hire.

Additionally, contrary to your assertions, DOH as it was promised to the UAL mechanics, is being denied.

And lastly, I made it quite clear that I'm not affected by this(unless they decide to close SFO), I also stated previously that seniority should apply equally to both CAL and UAL. Please spare me the "It's all about YOU" tired cliche simply because you have decided not to hold the teamsters accountable for their promises

 

[adiruwho]

So you have 26 years with CAL. In my quick adding some and subtracting some more, that puts you at an 84 hire. Are you a shop steward?

Typo- 25 with an 85 hire, IAM strike was over. I have performed that duty in the past.

 

[adiruwho]

I understand what ThirdSeatHero is saying about straight DOH. However you also have to look at what each group brings to the table. Integration using DOH often also has fences for a certain length of time so positions brought by each side stay with each side for an agreed upon time frame. This is not uncommon.

Everyone needs to chill out a bit here and let things unfold before getting wrapped around the axle so soon. We all took a beating over the last 9 years in our chosen careers. We can't expect to regain everything overnight because of a merger at other people's expense. If we all play our cards right it can mean opportunity for everyone. It is certainly not "every man for himself."

Let's keep focused on the real prize which is better pay, better work rules, more job security, and the opportunity to move forward after years of set backs. It won't work if we don't compromise and work together.

True and sage advice

 

[whoop whoop]

Typo- 25 with an 85 hire, IAM strike was over. I have performed that duty in the past.

I read in one of your post' you think the CAL contract is stronger. Could you please explain why you feel that way. And are you involved with the ibt in any capacity besides obviously being a CAL mechanic and being represented by them? Forgive me for all the questions, I just want to understand whats going on and am curious as to everyones position on this.

 

[whoop whoop]

As I said in my inital post on this thread, the mechanics at UAL were promised DOH by the teamsters during their organizing drive in 07-08. Not DOH with fences, not DOH singling out furloughees, Not DOH with restrictions.

Straight DOH signed by Don Triechler.

Now, as I've also said previously on this thread, you can have the most reasonable and lucid arguments for DOH with restrictions/fences/no furlough bumps, you could have many affected mechanics agree completely with your position, it doesn't for one moment change the fact that the teamsters lied to the mechanics at UAL by promising straight date of hire.

Additionally, contrary to your assertions, DOH as it was promised to the UAL mechanics, is being denied.

And lastly, I made it quite clear that I'm not affected by this(unless they decide to close SFO), I also stated previously that seniority should apply equally to both CAL and UAL. Please spare me the "It's all about YOU" tired cliche simply because you have decided not to hold the teamsters accountable for their promises

What would you suggest the best way to deal with the seniority issue should be? Maybee the best thing would be to let the mechanics from both sides sit down with each and hash it out. It seems like the ibt has dug itself in a hole promising 2 different things to the 2 groups. Why don't they let the groups decide for themselves and save themselves the headache of lying to both groups?