No thanks I will pass!
TWU vs. AMP Debate Comments
- Thread starter Ralph
- Start date
No thanks I will pass!
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
cio,
Why don't you just say that international officers are appointed and not elected by the full membership. Your directing to a link seems as if you might melt if you speak facts. But you point out that the membership votes for someone as a delegate to vote for them? Okay, so the atd delegates vote along with all the other delegates within the twu, you know, casino dealers, bus drivers, etc. Why should people from other lines of work vote on my issues? What makes them even care about my issues? The convention is a joke! It is the poster child for what is NOT democracy.
Tell me about the resolutions that were submitted for the convention but were rejected. They weren't even allowed to be discussed at the convention. How do you feel about them?
How many officers have been successfully removed by charges from the members and how many have been removed by the international?
How can a person brought up on charges by the international get a fair trial when the accusor appoints subordinates as the judge and jury?
You wish everyone "solidarity" from behind an alias. I guess that's okay with the moderator. But for me the term "solidarity" means a lot more when spoken in the light. If you believe in something you believe in it!
The twu is broken when it comes to representing AMTs.
GO AMP!
Ken MacTiernan
Certificated A&P, I.A.
The fact that you don’t care about another union member’s issues has everything to do with the fact that you should care. The AMT or A True Aircraft Mechanic union member cares because he/she is affected by the injustices inflected upon a sister/brother union member no matter where that injustice is inflected. You care less about fuelers, building cleaners, Facilities/automotive mechanic (engineers) or stores people, dealers, bus drivers because they are all below your considerations. Stand alone you die alone.
. Cesar Chavez “We cannot seek advancement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity of our community…Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own”.
GO AMP ( CHANGE YOUR DIAPER)
Certified A&P , I.A ( elitists )
Frank Szabo
Veteran
________________________
Given human nature being what it is, AMP could degenerate into something equally as bad as the TWU over a period of time, unfortunately. As with the USA and the Price of Freedom being Eternal Vigilance, the same could apply here with regard to the choice of representation.
This isn't to say the TWU shouldn't be tossed out with the trash - it should - and AMP has a good start in doing so but consider, after a number of years, how easy it would be for AMP or any other organization to morph into the exact thing we hate for the same reason the citizens have lost control of the USA - apathy towards running their union or country.
Trips to the lake and birthday parties and such catch a higher priority in today's society than tending to business. Perhaps, once upon a time, the TWU wasn't as it is now but was corrupted from within by those elected by the membership, offering to take care of everything if they could be granted just "a little" more power (non pun intended).
The same apathy plagues the United States of America - human nature strikes again.
Unless that union is like the APA,APFA or AMFA then whatever happens to them is not importent because they dared to disagree with the AFL-CIO and remind us what was your response when Reagan fired Patco. Please point out in his post where he says he does not care about other groups.
We get it, you call us elitist to try to spread fear about our motivation when you know our only motive is to remove the TWU. Why would a bunch of elitist ask the stores clerks to join? their not in our craft and class.
Finally I know Ken and he does have a A&P and a I.A. Unlike Jim Little who posted fake degrees only to be caught and have to remove them, funny how it is ok for electricans, plumbers, welders or machinst to be proud of their trade but if a A&P speaks up for his/hers their elitist.
I agree 100%, but our choice still is set here and do nothing or act It is time for us to stand up and demand change not only in our union but in the country as a whole!!!
The Status Quo will no longer due and believe or not the AFL-CIO is part of the problem.
enough already
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I'm done with the "Debate Forum". <_< Will someone please pm me when CIo actually answers a question? Thx!
MCI transplant
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<_< ------- The AFL/CIO is just another layer of the dues collection syndicate. I came to that conclusion when they choose to just sit on their hands, and do nothing, when two of their member Unions were in a dispute over Seniority!
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
Please post here where I say I "don't care about another union member's issues". I do care but I put a greater degree of importance on those issues that effect my craft. Your trying to implicate that I am an elitist has the prior aroma of twu smear.
Your distortion of my beliefs indicates that your belief is that ever work group on AA's property should belong to one happy union. You are mixing industrial unions and craft unions and they don't mix. If you read "elitist" in that statement then that is your problem.
My point in my post regarding the twu national convention is WHY should I try and enlist a delegate from the casino dealers to stand with an issue I have with the twu? WHY can I not have a craft union that addresses issues that pertain directly to my craft and my craft only?
AMP doesn't say anywhere that it will treat any member differently than another.
As for your editing of my sign off what is the meaning for that?
"Change your diaper"? Very factual argument why the twu must be removed.
"elitist"? No, just took the time to become certificated. Just like a pilot, and other craftsmen. I am no better than someone who is not certificated.
I'd like to return the favor:
KUKUY - Standing up for what you believe while in the light.
GO AMP!
CIO posted:
"By the way, we keep hearing about how AMP is not AMFA, AMP has nothing to do with AMFA, stop talking about AMFA because we’re not them and we’re completely different. You can go through five different strings on this Board and find close to fifty postings telling us AMP is completely different from AMFA. So if this is true, why is the same law firm that has always represented AMFA now representing AMP? And who is paying for them?"
The last part is really showing your intelligence. By your comment a law firm can only represent one client in its respective field. I do not know which firm is representing AMP or AMFA, but what other unions or associations is being represented by the same law firm? When you find that out please tell us that all clients of the same law firm are the same as AMP and AMFA. This is what you are saying? Right? Is it safe to say that all companies that are represented by the TWU are all the same? That means that the TWU constitution is the same for all TWU represented work groups. You know like flight Attendants, Bus Drivers, Subway workers, etc...... This is what you mean right?
BTW: The first official posting I read that AMP is just another AMFA came from the TWU International on one of their letters to the membership. Go back and check your sources on that.
"By the way, we keep hearing about how AMP is not AMFA, AMP has nothing to do with AMFA, stop talking about AMFA because we’re not them and we’re completely different. You can go through five different strings on this Board and find close to fifty postings telling us AMP is completely different from AMFA. So if this is true, why is the same law firm that has always represented AMFA now representing AMP? And who is paying for them?"
The last part is really showing your intelligence. By your comment a law firm can only represent one client in its respective field. I do not know which firm is representing AMP or AMFA, but what other unions or associations is being represented by the same law firm? When you find that out please tell us that all clients of the same law firm are the same as AMP and AMFA. This is what you are saying? Right? Is it safe to say that all companies that are represented by the TWU are all the same? That means that the TWU constitution is the same for all TWU represented work groups. You know like flight Attendants, Bus Drivers, Subway workers, etc...... This is what you mean right?
BTW: The first official posting I read that AMP is just another AMFA came from the TWU International on one of their letters to the membership. Go back and check your sources on that.
Not soliciting the support of the dealers, bus drivers, fleetservice or stores, garners the one craft nothing. But with the support of the other groups just maybe your agenda might prove to be received more favorably. We all have to stand together. Our strength is in our skill not in our numbers. Remember that one? History is a great teacher. The future is an unknown. What happened to other airlines in the past, I don’t want to see happen here to the members of The TWU in the future. The benefit of splintering a union makes no sense what so ever. AMP has no power. Is there support from other unions? Where does the AFL-CIO or CTW stand on this? The following is an offering to the before asked.
Elite: a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence *members of the ruling elite* *the intellectual elites of the country*
TWU informer
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"Other Airlines of the Past"? Are you talking about TWU at Eastern and Pan Am Airlines and AirCal, the IAM at Nothwest, Alaska, and TWA, or AMFA at Northwest?
So...I guess what you are saying is that since the TWU has the support of dealers, bus drivers, fleetservice, stores, and gamers. Along with the entire AFL-CIO, then one must assume that what we have been experiencing within the Airline Industry must be the TWU's and apparently even your idea of a successful agenda. Yet that is what causes TWU Members to get fed up and start card drives to remove the TWU. Never forget these drives come from within the membership, not from outside. Almost sounds like an oxy-moron when I read your postings. You are not in favor of change because you fear change. Then you must just admit that you are really a TWU supporter and enjoy industrial unionism without accountability. How's that working for you?
Freeloader - The term "Freeloader" in everyday speech refers to the economic free rider problem, the act of refusing to do work without valid excuses/reasons for being noncontributing to the work being finished.
More generally, the term refers to a "mooch" or a schnorrer.
Ride Coattails - To sponge, mooch, free load, skate by, or do absolutely nothing but watch while somebody else does all the work and still somehow try to take at least partial credit for something you had no hand in.
Both of the above also known as Appointed TWU Officer or Staff personel.
Hey KUKUY,
Why don't you give up on the guilt trip angle of accusing AMP supporters of being elitist. The only thing having everybody thrown into the same pot can do is dilute down the skills of the people that took the time and effort to obtain certification for their chance at getting a better job.
What has your way got us so far? The negatives on that list far outweigh any positives.
Why don't you give up on the guilt trip angle of accusing AMP supporters of being elitist. The only thing having everybody thrown into the same pot can do is dilute down the skills of the people that took the time and effort to obtain certification for their chance at getting a better job.
What has your way got us so far? The negatives on that list far outweigh any positives.
Let’s see, 1AA.
AMP says it has nothing to do with AMFA even though its spokespersons and organizers were the same people who chaired AMFA organizing meetings over the past ten years. But, that doesn’t matter because AMP isn’t a national union, it’s an in-house union and, besides, we’re trying to organize stores too, so we’re not a craft union. Except you’re still looking for a stores Chairperson, and now it turns out your lawyers are the same firm that has represented AMFA for forty years and has been their strategist and spokesperson ever since it was formed. AMP’s lawyer chaired, by my count, at least five different AMFA organizing meetings in Tulsa alone. But, AMP has nothing to do with AMFA, and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
In Solidarity
CIO
