TWU vs. AMP Debate Comments

[KUKUY]

It is interesting that you would state this as disertion or mutiny, both imply a command structure that we are beholden to, as if we are subjects of a king, you and your type claim the members are the power of the TWU. if this is the case then we are free to choose our destiny and cannot by defintion commit mutiny or be a deserter.

In reality, we are not in control of Our own destiny and this is why the minority see it as you do. we owe the TWU intl nothing, they work for us. iso if we decided their service is no longer needed we can at our discretion fire them or anyone else who works for us.

I know that most of the people posting on this board who favor the TWU are own their PAYROLL and do not want to lose their comfy little jobs, that pays way more than they could make back on the floor, that is why they hide behind alias. by the way I was the guy who suggested that we drop the alias for the debate but I bet you already know my name. if you do not, you send me a private message and I will tell you mine if you tell me yours.

Mutiny 1 obsolete : TUMULT, STRIFE
2 : forcible or passive resistance to lawful authority; especially : concerted revolt (as of a naval crew) against discipline or a superior officer
synonyms see REBELLION Desertion 1 : an act of deserting; especially : the abandonment without consent or legal justification of a person, post, or relationship and the associated duties and obligations
I’ve been around for over 30 years.

 

[TWU informer]

Mutiny 1 obsolete : TUMULT, STRIFE
2 : forcible or passive resistance to lawful authority; especially : concerted revolt (as of a naval crew) against discipline or a superior officer
synonyms see REBELLION Desertion 1 : an act of deserting; especially : the abandonment without consent or legal justification of a person, post, or relationship and the associated duties and obligations
I’ve been around for over 30 years.

I think you just proved aapitbull's point with that post.
Are you really so uneducated that you cannot see that?

You are a real piece of work!

 

[iluvaa]

I was thinking the same thing

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

AMP is more democratic. Amp is more Craft and Class oriented. That reminds of what you heralded about AMFA. In three years from now, will you change your mind and support TAE (techs against everything)? AMFA at least had history. Tulsa or AFW will always have the president’s chair because of their numbers. Maybe that is why you’re at DFW now. How do you equalize the effective political power (voice) of a small station compared to a larger station? That is splintering.

Well now. Your admitting that AMP is more democratic and is more craft and class oriented probably caused your keyboard to authenticate the user. Don't let the int. see/read/hear you using language like this or you will be in trouble. Oh, wait a second. THAT'S RIGHT! You are so proud and believe so much in the twu you need to post from behind an alias. Okay, continue to post the truth then. After all, nobody knows who you are. {Wink, wink!}

I am in DFW because of the "sAAred sAAcrifice" that the company peddled 7 years ago and the twu swallowed whole. Let me see, I was living well WITHIN my means but after the 28 1/2% cut in pay and benefits, which your beloved int. reps. NEVER had to accept and live under, while living in one of the most expensive cities in the country I needed to move to continue to provide for my family. So, I moved to DFW. You seem to imply some underlying thread of what here? Failure? Ya, sorry I had to burden my portion of the "shAAred sAAcrifice". How about you? Was it tough on you too? Oops, silly me. Nobody knows who you are so whatever you say would be suspect.

You typed "political power". Which political power are you referring to? That of the twu? Please be more specific. Your response will certainly garner more AMP cards.

GO AMP!

 

[DallasConehead]

snip
Tulsa or AFW will always have the president’s chair because of their numbers.

Not when they get sold and spun off.

 

[KUKUY]

Well now. Your admitting that AMP is more democratic and is more craft and class oriented probably caused your keyboard to authenticate the user. Don't let the int. see/read/hear you using language like this or you will be in trouble. Oh, wait a second. THAT'S RIGHT! You are so proud and believe so much in the twu you need to post from behind an alias. Okay, continue to post the truth then. After all, nobody knows who you are. {Wink, wink!}

I am in DFW because of the "sAAred sAAcrifice" that the company peddled 7 years ago and the twu swallowed whole. Let me see, I was living well WITHIN my means but after the 28 1/2% cut in pay and benefits, which your beloved int. reps. NEVER had to accept and live under, while living in one of the most expensive cities in the country I needed to move to continue to provide for my family. So, I moved to DFW. You seem to imply some underlying thread of what here? Failure? Ya, sorry I had to burden my portion of the "shAAred sAAcrifice". How about you? Was it tough on you too? Oops, silly me. Nobody knows who you are so whatever you say would be suspect.

You typed "political power". Which political power are you referring to? That of the twu? Please be more specific. Your response will certainly garner more AMP cards.

GO AMP!

Sarcasm is not in your scope of perception.
If it were up to AMFA/AMP, AA would have gone into bankruptcy ( that was one of Dell's grand solutions)and you would be crying about the police department in Chula Vista, (meaning that you would not have a job as an Aircraft Mechanic at AA) if they would have you. Too many jobs would have been lost throughout the work groups at AA. This is what this is all about. Every TWU member, every pilot, every flight attendant and every nonunion worker would have suffered more than a wage cut.
(Note sarcasm) Any union would embrace a splintering organization, such as AMP/AMFA in their coalition of unions.
The point is that AMFA/AMP would have thrown too many people under the bus.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- There's a problem with your reasoning. Even if the TWU, which they have not, secured jobs, they have stood by and watched the standard of living, and numbers, of their membership decline drastically simply because the dues have continued to pour in. It is obvious that their only interest is to protect that cash cow! --------The TWU is supposed to represent "all" it's members! Not just those that live in Tulsa!!!

 

[aapitbull]

Mutiny 1 obsolete : TUMULT, STRIFE
2 : forcible or passive resistance to lawful authority; especially : concerted revolt (as of a naval crew) against discipline or a superior officer
synonyms see REBELLION Desertion 1 : an act of deserting; especially : the abandonment without consent or legal justification of a person, post, or relationship and the associated duties and obligations
I’ve been around for over 30 years.

Thanks for making my point, we are not in the Navy or any other branch of service, we are not employeed by the TWU they work for us,
we pay their salaries they are no more than hired help it does not matter how long they have been around they serve at our leisure.

It's nice to see you can use a dictionary now if you could just understand what it said go ask someone what lawful authority means.

Finallly if you cannot understand what I'm saying try this,we must collect cards from the lawful authority the members, to get the NMB to hold a election they do not care what Little jim and the intl think see RLA as written by the Uniited States Congress.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Post #216
Sarcasm is not in your scope of perception.
If it were up to AMFA/AMP, AA would have gone into bankruptcy ( that was one of Dell's grand solutions)and you would be crying about the police department in Chula Vista, (meaning that you would not have a job as an Aircraft Mechanic at AA) if they would have you. Too many jobs would have been lost throughout the work groups at AA. This is what this is all about. Every TWU member, every pilot, every flight attendant and every nonunion worker would have suffered more than a wage cut.
(Note sarcasm) Any union would embrace a splintering organization, such as AMP/AMFA in their coalition of unions.
The point is that AMFA/AMP would have thrown too many people under the bus."

kukuy,

I think you tried replying to my earlier post but for some reason it came out attached under my post. Allow me to respond. (And not from behind an alias)

You assume a lot about AMFA. You also assume a lot about AMP. Hindsight is a great attribute to possess. But considering that you CAN NOT let go of AMFA I would say that AMFA would have at least negotiated snapback clause. What did you beloved twu negotiate?

Why would I cry about the Chula Vista police department? Why would I not continue my profession somewhere else?

You state too many jobs would be lost in every work group at AA. So your backbone consists of continuously accepting whatever the company offers? Do you understand the nature of the airline industry? Do you understand that layoffs are ALWAYS a possibility in the airlines? I know you do but your mentality is to stick your head in the sand and allow cuts in pay and benefits inorder to keep everyone working. But the company still laid off. Your beloved twu helped keep us out of bankruptcy but why do they not fight to get back what we "LOANED" the company? Oh wait! Your way of unionism is to give back without trying to get back. Now THERE'S a new slogan for the twu team to battle AMP "Give back NOT get back!"

Care to explain the splintering organization comment? AMP is not splintering. The twu is a splintering organization. Why else would they peddle the recent t/a? You know, that nice colorful flyer sent to all our homes suggesting we vote yes. The t/a would have splintered our work group.

But thanks for your post. I actually had people sign a card and state that between your posts and your side kick cio posts have shown how the twu can not defend their actions.

GO AMP!

 

[eolesen]

Interesting that CIO is now touting the AFL-CIO as a benefit. AFL-CIO charges $3.50/month per member under their "unity partnership" membership, which would come out to about $30,000/month for the M&R employees, or approx. $360,000/year.

How much of your TWU dues currently go towards that AFL-CIO membership, CIO? Perhaps it's a lower per cap fee because of the size of the international, but what's the return on investment for that?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

"We've received nearly 1,000 questions so far for our live webcast with the AFL-CIO leadership team.

The live webcast is Thursday, Sept. 16, at 4 p.m. EDT.

Make sure to hold that date and stop by www.aflcio.org to watch the officers live as they answer questions submitted in writing, by video and via text message.

If you want to be informed about the advantages of the AFL-CIO here is your oppurtunity!!"

In Solidarity
CIO

cio,

Why don't you answer the question as to why you think the twu constitution is better than that of AMPs? Explain why appointing int. officers is better than electing them by the full membership. Easy questions, so why are they so hard to answer?

1000 questions have been submitted? Will they all be addressed? I already know the advantages of being affiliated with the afl-cio. They really came through for us during contract negotiations in getting back what we "loaned" American in order to stay out of bankruptcy. It was a "loan" right cio? Or were they permanent give backs to be followed by more concessions.

GO AMP!

{Alias not included.}

 

[TWU informer]

RE: Debate Forum CIO post #39

Here is a link to the AFL-CIO If you have any questions: http://www.aflcio.org/
We've received nearly 1,000 questions so far for our live webcast with the AFL-CIO leadership team.
The live webcast is Thursday, Sept. 16, at 4 p.m. EDT.
Make sure to hold that date and stop by www.aflcio.org to watch the officers live as they answer questions submitted in writing, by video and via text message.
If you want to be informed about the advantages of the AFL-CIO here is your oppurtunity!!

In Solidarity
CIO

Oh great another choreographed AFL-CIO message. How about they come to Tulsa, rent a big facility and let us ask questions of them LIVE instead of using controlled texting and pre-determined Q&A. They, just like you, must think the membership is stupid. That must be why you use the term "we've" when referencing questions. You are just llike them, they are just llike you.

Get a live broadcast townhall meeting and allow free and open questions to be asked, otherwise this is nothiing more than the same mind control manipulation. You will never grasp the idea that the membership is smarter than that these days and all that happens is more cards get signed and more members becoming advocates of change.

If they ever actually grow a set and remove themselves from the auto campaign cash nose-ring of the democrat party and form a third party, then some of us might take notice. My bet, is this will be a rally preaching the chior and then you will show it to those that are not part of the choir and their eyes will roll, and heads will bow in shame. Get it? The chior gets excited about that which disgust those not in the choir.

Another sure fire guarantee is the broadcast ends up being nothing more than a commercial for the Democrats as we apprach mid-term elections and those Democrats just like you are running scared. And every Freedom loving American will once again be offended and turn against the idiots.

Get this...

Union Members no longer have tolerance for the same old crap. Change or die.

 

[CIO]

Eric, Ken and Informer!

Does this mean you won' be writing Questions or watching the questions being answered?

In Solidarity
CIO

 

[comatose]

Eric, Ken and Informer!

Does this mean you won' be writing Questions or watching the questions being answered?

In Solidarity
CIO

Your signature should read

In Solitary
CIO

 

[KUKUY]

Post #216
Sarcasm is not in your scope of perception.
If it were up to AMFA/AMP, AA would have gone into bankruptcy ( that was one of Dell's grand solutions)and you would be crying about the police department in Chula Vista, (meaning that you would not have a job as an Aircraft Mechanic at AA) if they would have you. Too many jobs would have been lost throughout the work groups at AA. This is what this is all about. Every TWU member, every pilot, every flight attendant and every nonunion worker would have suffered more than a wage cut.
(Note sarcasm) Any union would embrace a splintering organization, such as AMP/AMFA in their coalition of unions.
The point is that AMFA/AMP would have thrown too many people under the bus."

kukuy,

I think you tried replying to my earlier post but for some reason it came out attached under my post. Allow me to respond. (And not from behind an alias)

You assume a lot about AMFA. You also assume a lot about AMP. Hindsight is a great attribute to possess. But considering that you CAN NOT let go of AMFA I would say that AMFA would have at least negotiated snapback clause. What did you beloved twu negotiate?

Why would I cry about the Chula Vista police department? Why would I not continue my profession somewhere else?

You state too many jobs would be lost in every work group at AA. So your backbone consists of continuously accepting whatever the company offers? Do you understand the nature of the airline industry? Do you understand that layoffs are ALWAYS a possibility in the airlines? I know you do but your mentality is to stick your head in the sand and allow cuts in pay and benefits inorder to keep everyone working. But the company still laid off. Your beloved twu helped keep us out of bankruptcy but why do they not fight to get back what we "LOANED" the company? Oh wait! Your way of unionism is to give back without trying to get back. Now THERE'S a new slogan for the twu team to battle AMP "Give back NOT get back!"

Care to explain the splintering organization comment? AMP is not splintering. The twu is a splintering organization. Why else would they peddle the recent t/a? You know, that nice colorful flyer sent to all our homes suggesting we vote yes. The t/a would have splintered our work group.

But thanks for your post. I actually had people sign a card and state that between your posts and your side kick cio posts have shown how the twu can not defend their actions.

GO AMP!

The San Diego Union-Tribune March 18, 2003 “He is proud of his career; sadly. He can’t recommend it”
“Ken McTiernan is an aircraft mechanic, proud of his career and the role he plays on helping people travel safely.” ................
“Still, at 38, he looks to the future. In the wake of pay reductions, he’s sure he will take on a second job, And, he has taken a test to become a police officer.
There’s another lesson for those Patrick Henry High students: The world changes around you, and maybe the career you chose as a teen isn’t the one you’ll you will have forever.”
The membership of the TWU is not a classroom of doe eyed 9th graders. What snap backs has AMFA negotiated? AMFA the big bad militant association took on the airline industry and made what gains that garnered what advancements or what recognition for their membership? Here’s a slogan for you: AMP HAS NO POWER. How big was AMFA when you did their drive here? How big are they now? How deep are you into AMFA’s pocket?