TWU vs. AMP Debate Comments

[TWU informer]

Let’s see, 1AA.
AMP says it has nothing to do with AMFA even though its spokespersons and organizers were the same people who chaired AMFA organizing meetings over the past ten years. But, that doesn’t matter because AMP isn’t a national union, it’s an in-house union and, besides, we’re trying to organize stores too, so we’re not a craft union. Except you’re still looking for a stores Chairperson, and now it turns out your lawyers are the same firm that has represented AMFA for forty years and has been their strategist and spokesperson ever since it was formed. AMP’s lawyer chaired, by my count, at least five different AMFA organizing meetings in Tulsa alone. But, AMP has nothing to do with AMFA, and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.


In Solidarity
CIO

Let see CIO,

You say the TWU has money in the bank and trained greiveance handlers. Yet you cannot tell us the staus of the 100+ greivances over the outsourcing of 100% CFM56 Engine Overhaul. You say affiliation and political invovlement matter, yet Democrat Presidents supported by the AFL-CIO have signed anti-labor legislation into law and they are about to TAX the middle class into submission. And you keep refusing to acknowledge that nothing prohibits organizers from passing out AMFA Cards. You refuse to admit there is a difference between AMFA and AMP because you have to have someone or something to demonize because you cannot stand on the TWU record or Constiution. Seham never chaired any meetings and once again you lie. He was a guest at most simply because just as now you lie to the membership about legal issues regarding changing of union representation.

SO if I go pull up court records on every case that Frazier and Frazier have had invovlement in, you will accept that this is direct reflection on the TWU's policy and representation? OK I will start searching. You keep running towards the trap foolishly, it will soon snap you up as usual. You keep on being the supreme AMP organizer. You were in charge of the anti-AMFA movement, we filed for a dispute and you only survived by inflation of the eligibility list. This time, your policies and ignorance gets the cards signed and you wont survive the next card check. Why don't you go ahead and tell us in advance how it feels to be the fool that lost the campaign and actually muffed so many times that cards were signed as a direct result of your actions. That's what happens when you send an unskilled hired in relative employee to do a job that is more serious than those qualifications. In some instances I am glad the TWU appoints International Staff, this is one of those instances.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

TWU Informer,

"This time, your policies and ignorance gets the cards signed and you wont survive the next card check."

Remember Kirk Wells? Ah, good times... good times!

 

[TWU informer]

TWU Informer,

"This time, your policies and ignorance gets the cards signed and you wont survive the next card check."

Remember Kirk Wells? Ah, good times... good times!

Yeah he went to be an organizer too but for another Union since CIO beat him out for suck-up appointement. Now he is into photography in the Tulsa area. I saw him on the news recently with a Bride from a wedding emotionally stressed that her wedding photos had turned to scam. Bad press for o'le Kirk for sure.

Here are some TeAAm TWU facts for you to ponder.
Kevin Hammack - AA Management
Kevin Thompson - AA Management
Kirk Wells - No longer employed at AA
Rick Mullings - Appointed to $80,000+ per year International Staff Organizer
Kevin Gorremans - Still living on Mary's E-Board dime
Some un-named others are AMP Card Signers recently

Impressive history of TeAAm TWU - Best AMFA Organizers we had.

 

[Bagdad Bob]

Hey twu! BUH BY ! Hey HEY ! Goodbye !

 

[787nightmare]

"Other Airlines of the Past"? Are you talking about TWU at Eastern and Pan Am Airlines and AirCal, the IAM at Nothwest, Alaska, and TWA, or AMFA at Northwest?

So...I guess what you are saying is that since the TWU has the support of dealers, bus drivers, fleetservice, stores, and gamers. Along with the entire AFL-CIO, then one must assume that what we have been experiencing within the Airline Industry must be the TWU's and apparently even your idea of a successful agenda. Yet that is what causes TWU Members to get fed up and start card drives to remove the TWU. Never forget these drives come from within the membership, not from outside. Almost sounds like an oxy-moron when I read your postings. You are not in favor of change because you fear change. Then you must just admit that you are really a TWU supporter and enjoy industrial unionism without accountability. How's that working for you?

Freeloader - The term "Freeloader" in everyday speech refers to the economic free rider problem, the act of refusing to do work without valid excuses/reasons for being noncontributing to the work being finished.

More generally, the term refers to a "mooch" or a schnorrer.

Ride Coattails - To sponge, mooch, free load, skate by, or do absolutely nothing but watch while somebody else does all the work and still somehow try to take at least partial credit for something you had no hand in.

Both of the above also known as Appointed TWU Officer or Staff personel.

Sea Lampry...comes to mind. {;-)- parasitic marine life/fish that clings to the belly of larger fish(namely sharks)for protection and source of nutrition.

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ------- The AFL/CIO is just another layer of the dues collection syndicate. I came to that conclusion when they choose to just sit on their hands, and do nothing, when two of their member Unions were in a dispute over Seniority!

I came to that conclusion when they sat on their hands as Reagan fired PATCO, reaffirmed when they sat on their hands as the courts confiscated our labor and arbitrarily set the price of it based upon what a bankrupt company said they wanted to pay while ignoring the fact that it was soaring fuel prices(that were fueling record profits for oil companies) that was the real culprit behind the Airlines financial difficulties.

Nobody can deny that the labor movement in this country is in need of a major overhaul.

 

[KUKUY]

TWU Informer,

"This time, your policies and ignorance gets the cards signed and you wont survive the next card check."

Remember Kirk Wells? Ah, good times... good times!

Whatever happened to Spanky McFarland? If you live in a glass house don’t throw stones. You like openness so much. Where is the money coming from to foot the bill on this attempted raid? What power does Amp have to represent any union member (I noticed you guys got away from association)? Power does equate to money, power does equate to political backing and power does equate to community involvement (community can and does mean other unions and where you live). With what money would AMP pay the arbitrator if the time came to go the arbitration? I know that AMP would get a lot of money together to hire more arbitrators to speed up the process. The democratic process you want to implement would bog down the decision making process for the member ship because it would take a national vote to change the toilet paper in the AMP porta potty. Where is AMP’s power?

 

[TWU informer]

Whatever happened to Spanky McFarland? If you live in a glass house don’t throw stones. You like openness so much. Where is the money coming from to foot the bill on this attempted raid? What power does Amp have to represent any union member (I noticed you guys got away from association)? Power does equate to money, power does equate to political backing and power does equate to community involvement (community can and does mean other unions and where you live). With what money would AMP pay the arbitrator if the time came to go the arbitration? I know that AMP would get a lot of money together to hire more arbitrators to speed up the process. The democratic process you want to implement would bog down the decision making process for the member ship because it would take a national vote to change the toilet paper in the AMP porta potty. Where is AMP’s power?

It isn't a raid when your own membership starts a revolution.
Two hours pay per month appears to have served the TWU quite well, with millions apparently saved beyond what was needed. You think because the structure changes and the name on the door that the same 2 hours pay per month will not suffice? Why?

You do realize that once certification is complete that AMP instead of the TWU gets the membership dues....?

 

[Frank Szabo]

Personally, I'm tiring of the "NON" debate dragging on and on. Little (no pun intended) is being discussed and compared but the never-ending barbs are rather humorous.

Hell no, AMP doesn't have a track record, much as the TWU didn't either at one time. AMP's history is not written yet, however, the TWU's is and it, as most other unions whether industrial or otherwise, has become a self-serving POS not at all interested in its membership except for the dues that flow on a monthly basis.

The greatest issue is the lack of accountability within the representative organization. Naturally, both claim to be superior to the other. Imagine that.

Fact - Little Jimmy will not issue a proclaimation that the TWU will immediately become fully Democratic - I doubt that he legally could but even if so, it's not realistic to think he'd cut his own throat.

The AMP Constitution has plenty of wiggle room built in so as much as I'd like to believe something so simple could address the issues mechs and related have, I'm still skeptical.

Were a vote held today, mine would be "None of the Above".

 

[KUKUY]

It isn't a raid when your own membership starts a revolution.
Two hours pay per month appears to have served the TWU quite well, with millions apparently saved beyond what was needed. You think because the structure changes and the name on the door that the same 2 hours pay per month will not suffice? Why?

You do realize that once certification is complete that AMP instead of the TWU gets the membership dues....?

Revolution or Evolution, Revolution or Desertion, Revolution or Mutiny, paint the picture with the true intent. If anyone feels the ship is sinking, man the buckets, or like a rat jump ship. There is no hope for you if you’re floating in that big ocean with other rats. The fix is not breaking away. The fix is in the fight for change from within. Does a real union man run in the face of adversity? Does a real union man divide or unite?

 

[TWU informer]

Revolution or Evolution, Revolution or Desertion, Revolution or Mutiny, paint the picture with the true intent. If anyone feels the ship is sinking, man the buckets, or like a rat jump ship. There is no hope for you if you’re floating in that big ocean with other rats. The fix is not breaking away. The fix is in the fight for change from within. Does a real union man run in the face of adversity? Does a real union man divide or unite?

Effective Change from Within must come from the International Constitutional Convention. The proceedings of these conventions are printed and available to you for reading. Read the minutes/proceedings from the 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, 2005, and 2009 and tell me what your option would be once change from within is proven impossible? You obviously have no knowledge of the Local 100 group called "New Directions", and without a doubt you have never read the convention proceedings of the past.

Thus your post would have to have been made from a position of ignorance.

Read those proceedings and let's have a discussion on this then?

Just Sayin...

 

[comatose]

Revolution or Evolution, Revolution or Desertion, Revolution or Mutiny, paint the picture with the true intent. If anyone feels the ship is sinking, man the buckets, or like a rat jump ship. There is no hope for you if you’re floating in that big ocean with other rats. The fix is not breaking away. The fix is in the fight for change from within. Does a real union man run in the face of adversity? Does a real union man divide or unite?

I've heard change from within years ago. The division of this union starts at the international level with their refusal to negotiate in good faith.
This coming from their own membership.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Revolution or Evolution, Revolution or Desertion, Revolution or Mutiny, paint the picture with the true intent. If anyone feels the ship is sinking, man the buckets, or like a rat jump ship. There is no hope for you if you’re floating in that big ocean with other rats. The fix is not breaking away. The fix is in the fight for change from within. Does a real union man run in the face of adversity? Does a real union man divide or unite?

kukuy,

Does a real DEMOCRATIC union elect all officers by the full membership? AMP- YES twu- NO

Does a real union continuously pump out slogan after slogan, "We'll get the next time."/"The best is yet to come."/etc., in order to cover their inability to fight for the membership? AMP- NO twu- YES

Does a real union divide and conquer? AMP- NO twu- YES. (See recently voted down t/a about dividing the work force.)

Does a real union run in the face of adversity? AMP- NO twu- YES. (I direct you to the twu's int. union organizers Linda and Rick team letter directing union officials to PREVENT the membership from receiving AMP literature.)

Does a real union fight for change from within? AMP- YES twu- NO ( I point out the twu's national conventions as how change from within the twu will NEVER work.)

Do real union members jump ship? No they don't. Real union members fight. That is why AMP is throwing the rats overboard so we can control the direction of our profession.

GO AMP!

PS Patiently awaiting your next deflection of answering why the twu needs to remain representing our craft and class at AA.

 

[aapitbull]

Revolution or Evolution, Revolution or Desertion, Revolution or Mutiny, paint the picture with the true intent. If anyone feels the ship is sinking, man the buckets, or like a rat jump ship. There is no hope for you if you’re floating in that big ocean with other rats. The fix is not breaking away. The fix is in the fight for change from within. Does a real union man run in the face of adversity? Does a real union man divide or unite?

It is interesting that you would state this as disertion or mutiny, both imply a command structure that we are beholden to, as if we are subjects of a king, you and your type claim the members are the power of the TWU. if this is the case then we are free to choose our destiny and cannot by defintion commit mutiny or be a deserter.

In reality, we are not in control of Our own destiny and this is why the minority see it as you do. we owe the TWU intl nothing, they work for us. iso if we decided their service is no longer needed we can at our discretion fire them or anyone else who works for us.

I know that most of the people posting on this board who favor the TWU are own their PAYROLL and do not want to lose their comfy little jobs, that pays way more than they could make back on the floor, that is why they hide behind alias. by the way I was the guy who suggested that we drop the alias for the debate but I bet you already know my name. if you do not, you send me a private message and I will tell you mine if you tell me yours.

 

[KUKUY]

kukuy,

Does a real DEMOCRATIC union elect all officers by the full membership? AMP- YES twu- NO

Does a real union continuously pump out slogan after slogan, "We'll get the next time."/"The best is yet to come."/etc., in order to cover their inability to fight for the membership? AMP- NO twu- YES

Does a real union divide and conquer? AMP- NO twu- YES. (See recently voted down t/a about dividing the work force.)

Does a real union run in the face of adversity? AMP- NO twu- YES. (I direct you to the twu's int. union organizers Linda and Rick team letter directing union officials to PREVENT the membership from receiving AMP literature.)

Does a real union fight for change from within? AMP- YES twu- NO ( I point out the twu's national conventions as how change from within the twu will NEVER work.)

Do real union members jump ship? No they don't. Real union members fight. That is why AMP is throwing the rats overboard so we can control the direction of our profession.

GO AMP!

PS Patiently awaiting your next deflection of answering why the twu needs to remain representing our craft and class at AA.

AMP is more democratic. Amp is more Craft and Class oriented. That reminds of what you heralded about AMFA. In three years from now, will you change your mind and support TAE (techs against everything)? AMFA at least had history. Tulsa or AFW will always have the president’s chair because of their numbers. Maybe that is why you’re at DFW now. How do you equalize the effective political power (voice) of a small station compared to a larger station? That is splintering.