TWU one line local for maint.

[Overspeed]

Unfortunately, like many things, it was a mess, much like this. instead of allowing all line maintenance to vote they prevented a vote in smaller locals such as 510 and RDU and the Title II vote should have been after the Title I vote because unless Title I passed it there would have been no seperate Local to join. Many in Title II were unaware that they could end up separated from Title I when they voted others were concerned if they voted YES and M&R voted NO they would be stuck in a local they voted to leave. So yes the Self determination process was a mess, and who's fault was that? My concern is they are taking the same approach to consolidating, in their plan Title I would have just two reps while Title II would have eleven.

Title V did go with Title I every where they were given the option.




Trust me, with Don in the room theres no room left for any other egos.

The plan the ATD came up with is unacceptable and punitive. I'm against anything that makes no sense, you claim that Title II should go with Title II because they have the same management, so if the company were to put Title II under AA management then the Union would force them to move to 591? The fact is, no matter how the company structures their management, something we as a union have absolutely no say in, they are in the same contract as Title I. Who the management is does not matter-its whats in the book that matters. If you were a true unionist you would realize that.

The resultant Local 591 would be smaller than the five locals combined because the framers of this deal wanted to make sure that those locals never get as powerful as 514.You know it thats why you wont address what I've written.




Define how you conceptualize "more effective". More effective at rolling over and giving the company everything they want?

Of course I want to see power shift away from 514. Who doesnt, except 514? Let the chips fall where they may, they cashed in their chips and you advocate stealing chips from us and giving them to 514. You claim its a base -line thing, I consider DWH and AFW to be the same us us, willing to fight for the profession, I dont see that from 514. Their majority vote has not only controlled discussions in negotiations, controlling what the members get to vote on but also provided the majority of the YES votes that have brought down the profession. So Yes I want to see power shift away from 514. You claim to be a member of 565, are you saying that you like the idea of a local other than yours having so much power that they get to not only determine what you get to vote on but they have enough members to force you to accept whatever they want?

Lets face it, the majority of A&Ps live well enough there so there isnt much of an interest in getting involved with the Union or fighting the company. Hey thats their choice, like I tell my guys if your living standards were comparable to theirs would you be as angry as you are? Would you be willing to fight? Probably not, if it was I never would have ran for office either. As much as I have enjoyed this I did this in an effort to save my profession, not find a new one. I always had every intention of going back to my day shift spot working two doubles and a single. Thats why I kept doing what I do despite several threats from several people who told me I went too far and to "stay tuned". I'll keep doing what I do till we get what we need or I feel I've exhausted every option there is to make a difference. Unlike you, chasing the occasional "brown trout" aside, I like fixing things. Unlike you, being sent back to my box isnt something I fear.

The number of Presidents in the room doesn't matter. You should know that, it is the amount of roll call votes each President has. You have brought that up many times before complying about the horsepower 514 has.

Local 591 will NOT be smaller than 514. How many Title I positions are getting reduced in TUL and AFW? About 2,000 by the time this all shakes out in Feb 2013. How many Title I positions will be reduced by Feb 2013? About 200. Guess what Bob, the field has been leveled. Local 514 and 591 will be the same size by late 2013.

More effective, having one President who has to satisfy ALL of us on the Line, not just JFK voting our roll call votes. Takes local politics off the table.

I don't want power to shift away from anyone. Thanks for informing us of your disdain for TUL and what you really think of overhaul.

Bob this is a a union so whether or not we were under another union or another structure if TUL, LAX, or AUS has more members, well then they got the most influence. Sounds like your solution to getting what you want on the line is to redistrict the voting blocks so they favor or you or eliminate a group of voters by trying to get their jobs outsourced.

 

[Bob Owens]

The number of Presidents in the room doesn't matter. You should know that, it is the amount of roll call votes each President has. You have brought that up many times before complying about the horsepower 514 has.

Local 591 will NOT be smaller than 514. How many Title I positions are getting reduced in TUL and AFW? About 2,000 by the time this all shakes out in Feb 2013. How many Title I positions will be reduced by Feb 2013? About 200. Guess what Bob, the field has been leveled. Local 514 and 591 will be the same size by late 2013.

More effective, having one President who has to satisfy ALL of us on the Line, not just JFK voting our roll call votes. Takes local politics off the table.

I don't want power to shift away from anyone. Thanks for informing us of your disdain for TUL and what you really think of overhaul.

Bob this is a a union so whether or not we were under another union or another structure if TUL, LAX, or AUS has more members, well then they got the most influence. Sounds like your solution to getting what you want on the line is to redistrict the voting blocks so they favor or you or eliminate a group of voters by trying to get their jobs outsourced.

I dont know of any union that has a weighted vote.
Normally each committee member has an equal vote and they decide what goes back to the members.Then the members decide, representatives from larger stations then have the ability to either try and sell or reject the deal based on their size and how the deal will affect them. Their size advantage gets one bite at the apple, not two like in our structure. What we have is 514 gets to decide what we vote on, by virtue of the Roll Call vote and then they have the larger membership.

You seem to forget that the line is to see reductions as well.

Under the plan the International put together 514 would have a little over 5000 T-1 and T-II members, they would get there by taking members from Local 567 and Local 565. 591 would have less than 4000 members and zero Title II members. Even If DWH were to remain in 565 and AFW were to remain stand alone and Title II remained as it is today 514 would still be bigger than 591.

AFW and DWH would add around 1000 to 514. DWH is on the same airport as 591 and 514 would be hundreds of miles away. AFW is only 30 miles from DFW yet they too would be in 514. That makes no sense, sure management may be different, but its the same contract.

When have I ever advocated outsourcing? I've been against rolling over every time the company threatens to do so, like you advocate. I thought the reason we were in a union was so we could act as one and fight to make things better for all of us, not have some of us be forced to accept the worst conditions in the industry because others of us are afraid to act like union men and women. I thought we have a union so as not let the company threaten one part so we all surrender and give away pay and benefits and hope that the company doesnt come back and do it again. That strategy has already failed, in 2003 when they threatened to close the base we gave up 25%, set a new low for the industry that helped push USAIRWAYS back for a second BK and everyone else in as well. Then we did it again in 2012, what do you think is going to happen in 2018 if we continue to let 514 rule with their Roll call vote and 5000 members? The same thing that happened in 2003 and 2012. Even prior to BK we had already outsourced A&P jobs to OSMs and FSCs, had been doing it for years, it took BK for AA's competitors to get such concessions. Our concessions were put in through attrition, as A&Ps left, their job functions were taken over by non-A&Ps, whether it was SRPs in the Shops in OH or FSCs doing R&D and Deicing on the line, A&Ps lost work. That option was not available to AA's competitors, we gave some of our concessions during the greatest economic expansion of our lifetime, post 9-11 the economy was in a recession. The only way AA's competitors could come close to matching what AA was able to get, thanks to people like you, without even going BK, was to outsource. So they did. In the meantime we gave up 25% supposedly to save jobs, ten years later we are once again giving in to supposedly save jobs, this time its another 17% on top of the 25%. Yet you come here and admit that jobs will be lost. You claim that if we had not agreed that more jobs would be lost. My question is do you believe their is a surplus of OH capacity for MD-80s out there? I dont, in fact "Capacity is tight". Do you think TIMCO or AAR is going to gear up to do MD-80s when they cant even handle they have now? Look at how they screwed up the 757 they OH'd and the seat pitch. How much did AA save there?

So what did we do? We claim we kept the MD-80 work in house, because nobody wants it anyway. As that work goes away we have no guarantee that we will get new work. Look at what our scope clause says.

In the term sheet they wanted to outsource 40% of the work, based upon man hours. Then they went to 35% of the work based upon man hours, so yes they reduced the amount of man hours from 40% to 35%, from the term sheet to LBOI but in LBOII they changed it to 35% of maintenance spend -including materials. In other words they increased the amount of man hours (ie JOBS) they can outsource and depending on the cost of variables, they can now outsource even more than 40% of the manhours that the term sheet they were threatening to impose allowed. The more they pay for materials the more man hours they can outsource. The less they pay for labor when they outsource, the more manhours they can outsource. As they reduce headcount, the more OT you work, the more work they can outsource as well. Great Move OS, you didnt save the bases, you sold them out, and agreed to bottom of the industry compensation on top of that!!!

Local 514 went and told their members to accept this deal, now do you see why I dont want 514 to sit there with their Roll Call vote forcing more concessions on us?
Come the next round of negotiations 514 will be even more vulnerable, with language in place that allows the company to outsource pretty much at will, at least as much as there is capacity out there to do the work, the company will use the same threat they used in 2003 and 2008-12 and get 514 to agree to even more concessions.

If 514 is willing to advocate super low wages for 514 and get their members to buy it then fine, thats up to them, what I have a problem with is 514 leaders that insist that whatever they are willing to agree to sell to their members (and hope they can slide into an International spot afterwards)that everyone else has to agree to it too. They use their Roll Call vote to get the concessionary ballott out there then with a fear campaign get their large membership to get it passed.

When the company proposed a modest adjustment for the line, 514 sudedenly switched and said that if the line got anything the bases did not get then the deal was DOA as far as Tulsa was concerned. Hewitt claimed that he voted against the 2010 deal, but he advocated for the 2012 concessions, what was the dealmaker? Was it the fact that there was no $2/hr line premium on 2012? Was he willing to give up retiree medical, the Pension and all the other concessions just to make sure that line maintenance did not get that extra $2/hr over the base? He was willing to kill the deal if the line got an extra 50 cents, Who knows, but we all are stuck with the worst deal in the industry because people like you, who claim to be Union minded,in fact, support the Walmart anti-labor approach to wages and claim that lower wages and less benefits are good because it allows employers to hire more people.


Disdain for OH? No, I respect what they do, and the 26% of 514 and members from AFW have proven that they repect their profession and are willing to fight for it. I have disdain for the structure that allows one Local to have so much power that they can ruin the profession. I have disdain for people like you who have an obvious disdain for the work we do with your "brown trout" comment, as if saying that working as a mechanic is some sort of punishment, it shouldnt be, but people like you certainly are making it become that way.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Hey Don,

"Bob, you are losing your kingdom,"

The only person "losing" their kingdom are the international officers in the atd. After AMFA is elected as our democratic, craft union at AA all the atd folks will get to face reality. You will either get to go back to the floor in DFW with welcoming, open arms from those who elected you into the international as you get to go on gate calls OR you can get appointed somewhere else within the twu gravy train. Perhaps even a position in HR would be fitting since the twu is merely an extension of HR.

Bobby Gless I am positive will be kept on with the atd. His leadership skills are second to none. (You have to lower your expectations comment is pure gold!) His inability to answer union members in Good Standing when he is e-mailed honest questions is reward enough to stay within the atd.

Either way, the twu "kingdom" as far as AMTs is concerned will disappear very soon through the democratic process. By the way, thanks for all the AMFA cards received after the announcement of being forced into one local. Classic twu! Everytime you guys open your mouth's it results in more cards signed. That's probably why gless doesn't answer any e-mails.

After AMFA is elected perhaps we can all play the John Melencamp song that says "And the walls, came tumbling down! And the walls came tumbling, tumbling downnnnnn!!!!!!"

Go AMFA!

 

[amtide]

This reorganization need to be stop. This is a step in the wrong direction. We are signing a petition to the international and all line stations should do the same.

For now we do that and keep working to get rid of TWU.

 

[odie01]

This reorganization need to be stop. This is a step in the wrong direction. We are signing a petition to the international and all line stations should do the same.

For now we do that and keep working to get rid of TWU.

Keep copies of the petitions,they may be useful in court.

 

[AC Tynker]

High speed you are the one who is missing the point as usual.
Tulsa has always had the role call vote and has used it at the request of the International. I saw it with my own eyes so dont go there.
The TWU ATD does not want to give up that control period.
Bob has talked about consolidating locals for a long time, way before anyone took interest. his idea was shelved until they figured out how to use against the "NO" voters and blame Bob again.
Can't the TWU ATD take responsibility for their own actions ever!
the consolidation of locals was not done in any way that Bob Owens was proposing or beneficial to anyone other than the TWU ATD.

What's a long time to Chuck, a couple months? Luis talked about it while yourself and Bob where kicked out of office not able to run.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

What's a long time to Chuck, a couple months? Luis talked about it while yourself and Bob where kicked out of office not able to run.

Kicked out of office by whom? The appointed international officers or the membership that elected Bob and Chuck into office?

If the international wants one local there is only one reason why they would want it... to try and stay in control over the membership.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Who would be your choice for President of the new local 591. I can't participate in the election but someone like Overspeed would make an excellent choice. He has at least here offered sound judgement, is knowledgeable on the TWU/AA agreement, and from what I have observed has a cool head. I think someone like him would be an excellent choice...

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Who would be your choice for President of the new local 591. I can't participate in the election but someone like Overspeed would make an excellent choice. He has at least here offered sound judgement, is knowledgeable on the TWU/AA agreement, and from what I have observed has a cool head. I think someone like him would be an excellent choice...

Wow! People can use an alias on ballots now?

 

[Realityck]

Kicked out of office by whom? The appointed international officers or the membership that elected Bob and Chuck into office?

If the international wants one local there is only one reason why they would want it... to try and stay in control over the membership.

In answer to your question, I asked a Local officer why Bob and Chuck were removed and was told it was for
supporting another Union. Union's have the right to do that and they apparently got what they deserved.

Of all the people that comment on the one Local issue, you would be the last one I would consider a
legitimate resource with the credentials to ask legitimate questions. You're an empty drum in the wilderness man!

 

[AC Tynker]

Kicked out of office by whom? The appointed international officers or the membership that elected Bob and Chuck into office?

If the international wants one local there is only one reason why they would want it... to try and stay in control over the membership.

Patricia,

As always your input is Golden and unmatched.
Maybe since you resigned from your EBoard position so that you could promote AMFA or whatever the reason maybe you could explain why the TWU is wrong for holding their officers responsible when it comes to campaigning for a different Union. Some want a different Union and I would be the last person to say that they are wrong. When an elected officer is campaigning for a different Union "While In Office" or even a shop steward that campaigns "While a Shop Steward" then they are Indubitably Wrong!

If someone were an "Elected Officer" in AMFA and they were campaigning for IBT I ask you point blank, would that be accepted with no repercussions?

I have had this conversation on here recently with another member about TWU Officers being devout AMFA supporters. I just don't buy that it is not a conflict of interest. Just that one question is what I would like to see answered truthfully. I have asked it several times and each time it goes unanswered,

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Who would be your choice for President of the new local 591. I can't participate in the election but someone like Overspeed would make an excellent choice. He has at least here offered sound judgement, is knowledgeable on the TWU/AA agreement, and from what I have observed has a cool head. I think someone like him would be an excellent choice...

really.......... who is Overspeed? now it is time for the unveiling.....drum roll please

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Patricia,

As always your input is Golden and unmatched.
Maybe since you resigned from your EBoard position so that you could promote AMFA or whatever the reason maybe you could explain why the TWU is wrong for holding their officers responsible when it comes to campaigning for a different Union. Some want a different Union and I would be the last person to say that they are wrong. When an elected officer is campaigning for a different Union "While In Office" or even a shop steward that campaigns "While a Shop Steward" then they are Indubitably Wrong!

If someone were an "Elected Officer" in AMFA and they were campaigning for IBT I ask you point blank, would that be accepted with no repercussions?

I have had this conversation on here recently with another member about TWU Officers being devout AMFA supporters. I just don't buy that it is not a conflict of interest. Just that one question is what I would like to see answered truthfully. I have asked it several times and each time it goes unanswered,

I will answer that from my personal opinion
Competition keeps everyone on their toes. I believe that if the members are satisfied you will not have to worry about being taken over. If you are being challenged then make yourself better than the people trying to take you over.

 

[Bob Owens]

What's a long time to Chuck, a couple months? Luis talked about it while yourself and Bob where kicked out of office not able to run.

Since before we were kicked out of office by the International and before we were both put back in by the Members, not once but twice, you recall the members? They are supposed to be the "Ultimate Authority".

By the way neither Chuck or I campaigned for a different Union while we were officers, The chargers were brought forth in a Kangaroo court where our accusors picked subordinates of theirs to be the Judge and Jury. We did not have a jury of our peers, the Spanish Inquistion had nothing on Sonny Hall. The International claimed that by exposing the truth were were helping AMFA. The truth is what it is, and the truth is that the TWU is not doing a good job for our members and it needs to change the way they are doing things. What they are propsing is really more of the same, a vindictive move to silence or isolate those who object and remove as much power from them as they can, hence the decision to move all line Title II and DWH away from the Locals that wish to fight for the profession. There is no doubt that the concessions of 2003 hurt the entire profession. USAIR had to go back into BK, Delta went into BK, and United had reached a TA in BK days before we gave away the store, that agreement was scuttled by the creditors committee who no doubt felt that if AA could get what they got without going BK then UAL should be able to do better than what they did. UAL emerged from BK with better work, better equity, more Hoildays, more sick time and more Vacation than we did several years later. Since then they have moved way ahead of us and are currently in negotiations.

The ATD needs to give the decision making process back to the people the members elect, not people who are appointed who never see the members and dont even like the members. Don may be a smart guy, but he has no connection to the members and he does not have to live under the terms he helps management put in place.

 

[Bob Owens]

If you're going to desolve the locals, why not have one big local out of 214 and have real brotherhood instead of the continuous battle between line and OH.

Fine but only if its based in Dallas.