High Speed Steel
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- Feb 14, 2004
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I'm surprised that "e" would make such a suggestion. I don't believe AMR would forfeit their position that easily....
TWU negotiators ready to contact NMB
- Thread starter CIO
- Start date
I'm surprised that "e" would make such a suggestion. I don't believe AMR would forfeit their position that easily....
D
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High Speed Steel
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- Feb 14, 2004
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Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
Dear cio, hss and of course "King Ed",
Several years ago the twu was threatened by another union looking to represent the AMT craft and class at American Airlines. Through lies and fear tactics the twu managed to escape the inevitable. The twu pretended to behave like a union that doesn't put the appointed international officers first but rather the membership. The twu even carted out a fancy slogan, (their strong suit), crying to the misrepresented members "Change from within.". This slogan and mantra was intended to hoodwink the membership into believing that the twu could change and listen to the membership. But alas this was nothing more than an attempt to pacify dues paying members. It was nothing short of another twu lie.
How could this slogan be a lie? The answer is rather simple. Back when the twu rolled out with great fanfare that the membership should get involved with the twu and "Change from within." the twu was indicating that the membership should step up to the plate and become more active and vocal in the union because as the twu wanted you to think the membership is the union. Oh, how foolhardy are the accountable. Spring forward to today with a threat of a democratic, craft union wanting to allow the AMT craft and class at American Airlines to truly control their own union and the twu says the membership isn't capable of doing this. Huh? Didn't they just claim the opposite when there was no threat to their style of unionism? The twu is simply saying that the membership is too stupid to create a new union because there isn't anyone smart enough to do what is needed. I tell you what, I can see an out of touch management degrade and disrespect the work force but an organization I pay hard earned money for union dues to protect my profession to insult me and degrade my ability to do what is necessary to better our pay and benefits is flat out WRONG and UNACCEPTABLE!
Why is it when it benefits the twu slogans come cheap. Slogans that are empty. But when the membership does try to "change from within" by creating a craft, democratic union where all officers are elected by the membership and held accountable by the membership the membership all of a sudden turns into incapable dolts? Is it because change is possible with the twu but only as long as the change doesn't include changing the international structure? Is it because the twu realy only cares about international officers who are NOT elected by the membership and who DO NOT take cuts in pay and benefits when the membership does but rather only receives pay raises?
"Change from within" was something two union Brothers attempted in New York. Bob Owens and Chuck Schalk, both AMTs in JFK, were REMOVED from office by the twu international because Brothers Owens' and Schalk's idea of "change from within" benefited the membership not the international. So is "change from within" possible from the very people who started this idea? Or are they lying to the membership?
"Change from within" is being accomplished right now at AA by AMTs who are doing what the twu said we should do years ago! The Association of Maintenance Professionals, AMP, is everything the twu fears... democracy and accountability from the top down. With AMP the membership controls the constitution as well as the contracts. With AMP union officials from the top down are ELECTED by the full membership. The National Officers have term limits which brings accountability because eventually these elected officials will return to the positions they held when running for office. Their futures are tied to their direct efforts to better our craft and class. Does the twu offer any of these basic principles in unionism?
At the end of the day the question remains... are you better off with an undemocratic, unaccountable industrial union that offers nothing but empty slogans or are you better off with a democratic, accountable craft union controlled by YOU and held accountable by YOU!!
The twu fears this "change from within" and rightfully so because this change does not include their self serving ways. The twu does not defend their constitution because they can not defend the undefendable. Rather they will say the membership is not capable or smart enough to do what other independent unions like the American Pilots and Flight Attendants have done. Why should we support a union that has no faith in its own membership?
If you are tired of empty slogans and wish to read a constitution that YOU control visit the AMP web site, WWW.AMPNATIONAL.ORG, and educate yourself on what the future holds for us. Do not listen to the fearful moans of the twu who can only peddle concessionary contracts one after the other because they refuse to use a foundation of democracy and accountability. Sign an AMP authorization card and tell the twu it's time to "change from within"!
Ken MacTiernan
A&P, I.A.
AA AMT
Several years ago the twu was threatened by another union looking to represent the AMT craft and class at American Airlines. Through lies and fear tactics the twu managed to escape the inevitable. The twu pretended to behave like a union that doesn't put the appointed international officers first but rather the membership. The twu even carted out a fancy slogan, (their strong suit), crying to the misrepresented members "Change from within.". This slogan and mantra was intended to hoodwink the membership into believing that the twu could change and listen to the membership. But alas this was nothing more than an attempt to pacify dues paying members. It was nothing short of another twu lie.
How could this slogan be a lie? The answer is rather simple. Back when the twu rolled out with great fanfare that the membership should get involved with the twu and "Change from within." the twu was indicating that the membership should step up to the plate and become more active and vocal in the union because as the twu wanted you to think the membership is the union. Oh, how foolhardy are the accountable. Spring forward to today with a threat of a democratic, craft union wanting to allow the AMT craft and class at American Airlines to truly control their own union and the twu says the membership isn't capable of doing this. Huh? Didn't they just claim the opposite when there was no threat to their style of unionism? The twu is simply saying that the membership is too stupid to create a new union because there isn't anyone smart enough to do what is needed. I tell you what, I can see an out of touch management degrade and disrespect the work force but an organization I pay hard earned money for union dues to protect my profession to insult me and degrade my ability to do what is necessary to better our pay and benefits is flat out WRONG and UNACCEPTABLE!
Why is it when it benefits the twu slogans come cheap. Slogans that are empty. But when the membership does try to "change from within" by creating a craft, democratic union where all officers are elected by the membership and held accountable by the membership the membership all of a sudden turns into incapable dolts? Is it because change is possible with the twu but only as long as the change doesn't include changing the international structure? Is it because the twu realy only cares about international officers who are NOT elected by the membership and who DO NOT take cuts in pay and benefits when the membership does but rather only receives pay raises?
"Change from within" was something two union Brothers attempted in New York. Bob Owens and Chuck Schalk, both AMTs in JFK, were REMOVED from office by the twu international because Brothers Owens' and Schalk's idea of "change from within" benefited the membership not the international. So is "change from within" possible from the very people who started this idea? Or are they lying to the membership?
"Change from within" is being accomplished right now at AA by AMTs who are doing what the twu said we should do years ago! The Association of Maintenance Professionals, AMP, is everything the twu fears... democracy and accountability from the top down. With AMP the membership controls the constitution as well as the contracts. With AMP union officials from the top down are ELECTED by the full membership. The National Officers have term limits which brings accountability because eventually these elected officials will return to the positions they held when running for office. Their futures are tied to their direct efforts to better our craft and class. Does the twu offer any of these basic principles in unionism?
At the end of the day the question remains... are you better off with an undemocratic, unaccountable industrial union that offers nothing but empty slogans or are you better off with a democratic, accountable craft union controlled by YOU and held accountable by YOU!!
The twu fears this "change from within" and rightfully so because this change does not include their self serving ways. The twu does not defend their constitution because they can not defend the undefendable. Rather they will say the membership is not capable or smart enough to do what other independent unions like the American Pilots and Flight Attendants have done. Why should we support a union that has no faith in its own membership?
If you are tired of empty slogans and wish to read a constitution that YOU control visit the AMP web site, WWW.AMPNATIONAL.ORG, and educate yourself on what the future holds for us. Do not listen to the fearful moans of the twu who can only peddle concessionary contracts one after the other because they refuse to use a foundation of democracy and accountability. Sign an AMP authorization card and tell the twu it's time to "change from within"!
Ken MacTiernan
A&P, I.A.
AA AMT
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
Forfeit *what* position? The last offer on the table was rejected. Neither side has presented anything since the vote.
You're in mediation because there was no progress, and the mediator was brought in to move negotiations along, and to report back to the NMB when they feel there's an impasse. Nothing in that process that I'm aware of prevents management and labor from meeting without the mediator having scheduled it. I'm not even sure the mediator has to be present.
All Jim Little, John Conley, or whoever is driving the bus needs to do is pick up the phone and call Brundage or Horton. If both parties are ready to talk, I seriously doubt the mediator is going to tell them they can't. I'd think most arbitrators/mediators would probably prefer progress to be made without their involvement...
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
Hum? Let's see here. The twu is threatened by AMFA years ago and the twu creates "Team Bubba", oh, excuse me, "Team TWU" lead by the most capable of all twu represented members kirk wells. All the twu can rely on is parading a coffin up and down a Tulsa street with chants of "To the doors and stop! To the doors and stop!" The twu does NOT argue the company's addition of dead people, people no longer employed at AA and people who have gone into management who are eligible to vote in a representational election. More empty slogans are rolled out with great fan fare such as "Change from within". The twu simply escapes the inevitable for a short time. There is no representational election. But during this whole process the twu NEVER addresses the concerns of the membership or their constitution. International officers remain being appointed and their pay and benefits are not tied to our gains and losses. The twu goes back to being an undemocratic, unaccountable industrial union bringing forward concessionary contract language contract after contract.
Stay with me folks, (ie. cio, hss & kukuy). Here we are again with another threat to the twu dues sucking agency and what do we have? More t-shirts with empty slogans. The twu still DOES NOT, nor can they, defend their constitution. International officers remain being appointed and their pay and benefits are not tied to our gains and losses. The twu is simply rearranging the furniture on the deck of the Titanic. NOTHING has changed! The twu sees a threat to their undemocratic, unaccountable structure and they parade slogans and attack those looking for real change. They pretend to act like the membership comes first, blah, blah, blah. When they side step the threat they let the slogans fade from memory and they return to their old ways. This cycle needs to stop!
"TWU KEEPING THE DREAM ALIVE". Yes, they are keeping the international's dream alive of ever lasting pay raises while the membership struggles/suffers. They are keeping the international's dream alive of never having to fear a democratic vote/recall of the membership to retian their positions.
Dream? Well, for the membership it is more like a nightmare.
twu wake up! It's a bright and sunny AMP day outside!
GO AMP!
Wake up yourself. contracted turned down 2 to1. if AMP was coming you guys should have filed by NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
exactly what are they waiting for. Rumor out of chicago is this friday the TWU is going to meet with the NMB to discuss the new proposal. WTF your big boys pick up the phone call AA and get a deal done. I can already see all the back pedalling coming.
Tex-Mech
Veteran
I did...Can I get a discount?
E*** Olesen
Co-owner and President at O&H Danish Bakery
Greater Milwaukee Area
http://www.ohdanishbakery.com/ohdb/STR007?scrcrtchk=20101020175247772000&scrcrtnum=103806126&scrstonum=0001&scrcatnum=979
High Speed Steel
Veteran
- Feb 14, 2004
- 1,375
- 136
"e", I do like your opinion that they should just make a call and make it happen. With your opinion it gives me the impression that you would be willing to ignore the whole mediation process and give way to re-visiting all 47 articles. Basically returning to 4-14-2003 and starting over. For me that would be great, but I don't think that is where we are headed.
The Union too has interest in contacting the mediator because the "NO vote" included a statement authorized by the membership that they were willing to go the distance up to and including a strike. So to uphold the intensity and to engage in self help "Legally" if necessary we must include the mediation process as a requirement of the Railway Labor Act...
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
Dear Paul,
It seems as if you are the one still dreaming of twu fairy tales. The t/a was voted down by 2 to 1 BUT this was done with pressure from the international to vote yes. Remember the colored flyer inserted into your ballot envelope? The president in Miami urged everyone to vote yes because he said if you vote no you'll be on strike in 30 days. The twu wanted this t/a because they voted to bring this t/a to the membership. ANY union worth their salt would have seen this t/a as the career ender that it was.
Don't worry about AMP. We'll file just in time for you to wake up and put your feet in your little twu bunny slippers.
Now, where is that debate about the twu constitution being better than AMP's constitution? can't defend the undefendable.
GO AMP!
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
Oh, so it's not really the company forfeiting their position. It's the union forfeiting theirs. Try getting your story straight next time...
Relevancy and History are coming back to bite the TWU backside:
After the 1995 fiasco, AMR posted record profits and refused the requests of the unions on the property to renegotiate the labor contracts: labor was told by AMR, "We have valid contracts."
Prior to the 2003 fiasco, the TWU was supposedly advised of the KERP, SERP Bonus Program but denied knowledge: Little signed off on the deal, despite no further ratiifcation; Carty fell on the corporate sword; and, Arpey assumed, for a short while, deity status.
During the 2010 election cycle, the Unions are under attack for the benefits proffered by the Community Organizer in Chief at the expense of the Public Treasury: the TWU/AA TA is rebuffed by their own membership that did not benefit from the AFL-CIO connection, but Little needs to quiet the anti-democrat feeding frenzy if he is to be promoted within the AFL-CIO.
Now the TWU is supposedly ready to let the negotiations teams "own" their own negotiations with full TWU support: meaning what we get will be the product of only our Contract Leadership and AMR. Little has triangulated the M&R into a high stakes poker game wherein he will claim victory if we get anything approaching an ILC in any category but will fully place failure on both the membership and the face of the current negotiations commitee if the outcome is less than optimal while providing minimal support at minimal cost.
Changing Unions could buy us time, staying with the TWU will not produce any support beyond slogans and T-shirts: risk on one side, certainty of failure on the other.
Choose the TWU/Jim Little, and allow him to advance his career while you and your family suffer: or, choose the power that all of us can bring when we all bend our oars to pull the ship home.
We've seen what happens when we allow the TWU to choose for us a Tentative Agreement they told us was the best they could acheive: fully 2/3 of the membership voting refused to allow Overhaul to be split from the Line and the position of the Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic to be diminshed at American Airlines.
Brothers, you are riding a TWU dead horse; and we are crossing the river whether you want to or not.
You can swim for it on your own, or you can create a lifeline with your brothers by signing an AMP card.
We are, for now, free to choose.
After the 1995 fiasco, AMR posted record profits and refused the requests of the unions on the property to renegotiate the labor contracts: labor was told by AMR, "We have valid contracts."
Prior to the 2003 fiasco, the TWU was supposedly advised of the KERP, SERP Bonus Program but denied knowledge: Little signed off on the deal, despite no further ratiifcation; Carty fell on the corporate sword; and, Arpey assumed, for a short while, deity status.
During the 2010 election cycle, the Unions are under attack for the benefits proffered by the Community Organizer in Chief at the expense of the Public Treasury: the TWU/AA TA is rebuffed by their own membership that did not benefit from the AFL-CIO connection, but Little needs to quiet the anti-democrat feeding frenzy if he is to be promoted within the AFL-CIO.
Now the TWU is supposedly ready to let the negotiations teams "own" their own negotiations with full TWU support: meaning what we get will be the product of only our Contract Leadership and AMR. Little has triangulated the M&R into a high stakes poker game wherein he will claim victory if we get anything approaching an ILC in any category but will fully place failure on both the membership and the face of the current negotiations commitee if the outcome is less than optimal while providing minimal support at minimal cost.
Changing Unions could buy us time, staying with the TWU will not produce any support beyond slogans and T-shirts: risk on one side, certainty of failure on the other.
Choose the TWU/Jim Little, and allow him to advance his career while you and your family suffer: or, choose the power that all of us can bring when we all bend our oars to pull the ship home.
We've seen what happens when we allow the TWU to choose for us a Tentative Agreement they told us was the best they could acheive: fully 2/3 of the membership voting refused to allow Overhaul to be split from the Line and the position of the Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic to be diminshed at American Airlines.
Brothers, you are riding a TWU dead horse; and we are crossing the river whether you want to or not.
You can swim for it on your own, or you can create a lifeline with your brothers by signing an AMP card.
We are, for now, free to choose.
