TWU negotiations.........what?

[Crapdog]

If more A&Ps would know and DO their jobs, document and repair everything they find, the company would beg for a contract. You can bet the company attorneys aren't accepting niggardly remuneration for their work.

BAD CHOICE OF A WORD!!!!! NOT A GOOD THING TO SAY..............

 

[The Goose]

BAD CHOICE OF A WORD!!!!! NOT A GOOD THING TO SAY..............

... a very correct word used here in its proper context regardless of its "sound". Would grunts and screams be more to your liking?

Learn the language.

 

[iluvaa]

BAD CHOICE OF A WORD!!!!! NOT A GOOD THING TO SAY..............

May sound like a bad choice of words but it has nothing to do with the N word its origin predates the N word. Just google the word it means cheap, or stingy.

 

[FWAAA]

BAD CHOICE OF A WORD!!!!! NOT A GOOD THING TO SAY..............

Reminds me of a famous incident in Washington DC almost 11 years ago:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local...liams020499.htm

A little education is a very good thing.

 

[DallasConehead]

If more A&Ps would know and DO their jobs, document and repair everything they find, the company would beg for a contract. You can bet the company attorneys aren't accepting niggardly remuneration for their work.

Reminds me of a famous incident in Washington DC almost 11 years ago:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local...liams020499.htm

A little education is a very good thing.

As usual, the conversation is so masterfully spun by the spin doctors. In this case, from what we should be doing as A&Ps in a battle for our professional careers to "English 101"

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Interesting data:

Airlines roaring this week on improving traffic. Impressive week for the airlines:

United up 31%
AMR up 22%
Continental up 22%
Delta up 21%
Improving traffic is the key here. Southwest [LUV 10.07 -0.16 (-1.56%) ] reported traffic was up 12 percent, at United [UAUA 9.95 0.23 (+2.37%) ], traffic was up 1.8 percent.

US Air, which reported November traffic yesterday, said "The revenue environment continues to show core sequential improvement with strength in close-in bookings."

Barclays Capital said that the industry was "on track for one of the strongest, if not the strongest, initial recoveries in demand since the 1980s when viewed sequentially."

 

[1AA]

Interesting data:

Airlines roaring this week on improving traffic. Impressive week for the airlines:

United up 31%
AMR up 22%
Continental up 22%
Delta up 21%
Improving traffic is the key here. Southwest [LUV 10.07 -0.16 (-1.56%) ] reported traffic was up 12 percent, at United [UAUA 9.95 0.23 (+2.37%) ], traffic was up 1.8 percent.

US Air, which reported November traffic yesterday, said "The revenue environment continues to show core sequential improvement with strength in close-in bookings."

Barclays Capital said that the industry was "on track for one of the strongest, if not the strongest, initial recoveries in demand since the 1980s when viewed sequentially."

Do you think that maybe the Negotiating committee and the Mediator are reading the same stuff we AMT's are reading? The way I see it the longer we are without a contract the better off we should be. At least by reading all the industry news about the financial well being of the Aviation industry. With AA investing in Aircraft and other areas to improve and stay competitive and Citi bank investing billions why should the TWU turn a blind eye to the obvious?

 

[eolesen]

Airlines roaring this week on improving traffic. Impressive week for the airlines:

[snip]

Improving traffic is the key here. Southwest [LUV 10.07 -0.16 (-1.56%) ] reported traffic was up 12 percent, at United [UAUA 9.95 0.23 (+2.37%) ], traffic was up 1.8 percent.

You missed AA's traffic. Load factor was up 3% on 4.2% less capacity. Traffic was down 0.5% year over year.

Something also not made clear in the traffic releases (but mentioned in Plane Business) -- last year, the Monday after Thanksgiving fell in December. This year, it was in November. I flew on the 30th, and the airport was jammed, so the halo effect from the holiday can explain some of the bump certain carriers saw, especially leisure oriented carriers.

So... Load factors are indeed up, but it's on less capacity, and no matter how you spin that, it still translates to fewer aircraft and ultimately fewer jobs.

 

[Bob Owens]

Do you think that maybe the Negotiating committee and the Mediator are reading the same stuff we AMT's are reading?

No I dont.

Everytime I bring up some good news I'm shot down with doom and gloom.

I think the committee will be told to watch and see if the company pays the whole $500 million into the pension or only makes partial payments. They will be told "If they put in the whole $500 million it means they are secure, if not, if they decide to spread it out(why wouldnt they?) then they may be looking for a BK filing."

Then when the company only makes a partial payment we will be told we have to come up with a deal right away, before BK, the June supposal will be back on the table and put before the committee then put before the membership with the inclusion of OSMs on the line, no pension for new hires and regional pay. It will be a four year deal as well.

Last time it was the "White spaces and we have to send a message to the 6th floor" scam. Luckily the company rejected that because they want thier OSMs on the line, the pension for new hires and retiree medical. With no systemwide disruptions (unlike from what I hear about Continental)they figure they can afford to wait. The way they look at it things must be good enough because they are still getting what they want. The workforce appears content, so why give anything?

Last June we had a presentation given by the company that said that we would lose 600 to 800 jobs in Tulsa if we couldnt fill the "white spaces" with 3rd party work in 2012, in August the Company admitted that they expect to lose 300 to 400 mechanics a year through attrition between now and then, in other words, 900 to 1200. We would be losing mechanics faster than we are losing jobs but for some reason we had to show "the 6th floor" that we were serious about saving the company money and saving jobs.

This time it will be "the pension" scam, along with a presentation by the TWU economist highlighting the difficulties the company faces. On the eve of a rebound we will be told that we have to get a deal in place, "we have to put some money in our members pockets", and a year from now just like 1995, "Dont worry, we'll get 'em' next time fellas."

Keep in mind that the reason why the payment to the pension is so big is because we were told to lobby our politicians into allowing AA to defer payments to the pension, last year AA contributed ZERO to the pension.

If you didnt pay your credit card bill for a year and continued to use it would you be justified when you complain how much you had to pay after a year of paying nothing?

If we do not learn from history we are destined to repeat the mistakes in history. Dont become impatient and say "We should have accepted the companys first offer" , or "They got their two year extension". Get ready to fight and show the company that you are ready to go as far as we have to to get what we need. Talk about about how we must fight at work and correct those who preach defeatism. Remember that when people say that we cant or shouldnt fight they are working in the interest of the company and against our interests.

Dont reward the company's bad greeedy behavior by giving them what they want, it will only invite more abuse.

 

[FWAAA]

Everytime I bring up some good news I'm shot down with doom and gloom.

No, sometimes just a dose of facts and reality.

Keep in mind that the reason why the payment to the pension is so big is because we were told to lobby our politicians into allowing AA to defer payments to the pension, last year AA contributed ZERO to the pension.

If you didnt pay your credit card bill for a year and continued to use it would you be justified when you complain how much you had to pay after a year of paying nothing?

The bolded portion is inaccurate and misleading.

The reason the 2010 pension contribution is so large is that under the law, the pensions were 96% funded at the end of 2007, and thus no minimum contributions were due to the pensions in 2009.

When the company asked you to lobby Congress to permit AA to defer contributions it was because Oberstar and others wanted the law to force AA to freeze pension benefits in exchange for a longer make-up period (you'll recall that NW (headquartered in Oberstar's district) and other airlines froze their pensions). AA didn't want to freeze the benefits for active employees like you but wanted some flexibility in the timing of the make-up contributions. UA filed for Ch 11 in 2002 and terminated its pensions because it couldn't come up with the $3+ billion of pension contributions under the old rules. AA finally won that legislative battle and has the same benefits to make up shortfalls granted to NW and DL.

The $500 million pension contribution isn't going to make or break AA. But mentioning it makes sense, given how often someone mentions "the company has billions in the bank - why can't we have it?" The money in the bank is largely already earmarked for 2010 items, like pension contributions and debt that's coming due.

I think 1AA has a point. If the economy is improving, and the airline's finances improve, then patience looks like a good thing. If I were trying to negotiate a pay raise (restore and more), I'd want to do it when my threat of a strike was powerful - in good times, grounding the airline would cost it much more than in bad times. Once things improve, negotiate a raise and retro pay.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------Bob, there are things the membership could be doing right now to put pressure on the company to start to negotiate in ernest! One of them being: ------ The boys in TUL will love this one!------ Initiate an O.T. ban!!! No one except O.T. until you have a contract!!! The operation would come to a stretching holt within a week!!! ----Let's see if the man on the floor really wants a new Contract? Or do they want to set back and let someone else do it for them??? :unsure:

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

<_< ------Bob, there are things the membership could be doing right now to put pressure on the company to start to negotiate in ernest! One of them being: ------ The boys in TUL will love this one!------ Initiate an O.T. ban!!! No one except O.T. until you have a contract!!! The operation would come to a stretching holt within a week!!! ----Let's see if the man on the floor really wants a new Contract? Or do they want to set back and let someone else do it for them??? :unsure:

Waaaayyy back in grad school the teaching assistants unionized and 'worked to rule' doing everything by the book. This action peeved off some of the profs, who voiced their displeasure to the grad studies admin/dean, who then actually sat down and negotiated in good faith with the teaching assistants a new contract relatively quickly.

A job action such as refusing OT or doing everything by the book could be quite effective - if everyone is onboard.

 

[TWU informer]

<_< ------Bob, there are things the membership could be doing right now to put pressure on the company to start to negotiate in ernest! One of them being: ------ The boys in TUL will love this one!------ Initiate an O.T. ban!!! No one except O.T. until you have a contract!!! The operation would come to a stretching holt within a week!!! ----Let's see if the man on the floor really wants a new Contract? Or do they want to set back and let someone else do it for them??? :unsure:

That might work if not for the TWU contract language that allows management to paperwork and demand overtime to be worked.

 

[AANOTOK]

You know as well as I do that it will NEVER, NEVER, (did I say NEVER) happen. Where I work in Dallas, we have clerks who have upwards of 200 hours of overtime with dirty knees. They have been asked to not sign up for three days to show our management folk that we are dissatisfied with this or that and that same group of people refuse. Again, it will NEVER happen. Just a sad "it's all about me" fact.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- Well Folks, it's up to you! You can continue to do what your doing, and except what you get! But remember, you are the Union!!! If you do nothing, and end up with the crappy end of the stick, it will be no ones fault but your own! If your Union leadership won't do it for you, who do you expect will? The tooth fairy? ------ I don't think so!!! :unsure: