T
The Goose
Guest
When are you going to learn?
The better-than-thou narcissists have spoken - it's only hundreds of millions if they say so. Be thankful they said that much to us.
TWU negotiations.........what?
- Thread starter Chuck Schalk
- Start date
The better-than-thou narcissists have spoken - it's only hundreds of millions if they say so. Be thankful they said that much to us.
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
- 584
- Banned
- #1,307
<_< ------ Hey! It's only $350 million all right? 
------ Besides, you got your BBQ, didn't you? So what are you complaining about?
------ Besides, you got your BBQ, didn't you? So what are you complaining about?
TIME FOR CHANGE
Veteran
The TWU convention convenes this week in Las Vegas. This is where our TWU International leadership is elected by delegates. The theme of this convention is: "Building on Our Legacy." It's peculiar they would chose this as their theme as the TWU has a legacy of negotiating wage cuts and capitulating to corporate bosses. However, the same folks who have led the TWU through concessionary contracts have also been handsomely rewarded. Listed below are the 2008 salaries for selected TWU International leaders.
Jim Little: $268,851
Joe Gordon: $238,985
Harry Lombardo: $246,826
Mike Bakalo: $244,135
Gary Yingst (removed): $168,464
Gary Drummond: $172,291
Dennis Burchette (removed): $165,164
John Conley: $175,072
Bob Gless: $138,734
Tim Gillespie: $145,133
Don Videtich: $141,185
The TWU delegates are instrumental in reelecting the International leadership and maintaining the status quo. The delegates are made up mostly of the Local officers we've elected. So, demand to know how your representative voted.
Jim Little: $268,851
Joe Gordon: $238,985
Harry Lombardo: $246,826
Mike Bakalo: $244,135
Gary Yingst (removed): $168,464
Gary Drummond: $172,291
Dennis Burchette (removed): $165,164
John Conley: $175,072
Bob Gless: $138,734
Tim Gillespie: $145,133
Don Videtich: $141,185
The TWU delegates are instrumental in reelecting the International leadership and maintaining the status quo. The delegates are made up mostly of the Local officers we've elected. So, demand to know how your representative voted.
T
The Goose
Guest
I'm quite certain there are company payoffs to be added into these totals, but these gents aren't very forthcoming about those amounts.
Where do all of the local presidents salaries fall in? They are involved in the concessions too! Right?
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
Dammit, that pay looks great.
I knew I should have sold my soul to the Devil and worshipped the alter of the TWU. I too would have been APPOINTED for a lifetime of that payscale.
I knew I should have sold my soul to the Devil and worshipped the alter of the TWU. I too would have been APPOINTED for a lifetime of that payscale.
D
Deleted member 14439
Guest
Please remind me WHY I am paying union dues? The representation is nothing less than pitiful and a total embrassment to the hard working men and women of this airline. Why is there no informational picketing at the airports? Why is the totally corrupt international sitting idley by and doing nothing? Oh never mind you international folks are nothing more that company bootlickers looking out for your own best interests. How about the interests of my family and job?
I was digging through some files the other day and came across a pay-stub from december 2000! Guess what? It had the SAME YTD GROSS AS MY CHECKS TODAY!!!! A check from 14 years ago and it is the same gross pay. This is what I pay dues for "brother" ??? M&R Negotiating committee this is for you. DO SOMETHING!!! Now!!! Where are all the "WORK SAFE" posters? Why is there not local officers on the floor/line everyday? Larry when are you going to update your presidents message? No communication, no leadership, completely beaten down workforce will it ever end?
Pilots. You bunch of pompus, cake eating clowns! How dare you throw the AMT`S under the bus for the incident on aircraft N350AA. We will not soon forget your leaderships comments on that one. You should try sticking to the flight schedule and fly the dang airplanes. The amount of whining and self rightous behaivor from your group we never would have defeated the germans with this bunch. :angry:
Yes I`m fed up. I can`t take it any longer. I used to enjoy my job and now it is "just a job". The AMTS are a dying breed that get zero respect from our union, our fellow unions, the compnay nor anyone else for that matter. I will do my job to the best of my 20yrs experince and ability. Certainly not for love of company but respect for myself.
A divided. beat down workforce. Thats is what the company wanted and now they have it. I shudder to thing about just how much worse things will get.
I was digging through some files the other day and came across a pay-stub from december 2000! Guess what? It had the SAME YTD GROSS AS MY CHECKS TODAY!!!! A check from 14 years ago and it is the same gross pay. This is what I pay dues for "brother" ??? M&R Negotiating committee this is for you. DO SOMETHING!!! Now!!! Where are all the "WORK SAFE" posters? Why is there not local officers on the floor/line everyday? Larry when are you going to update your presidents message? No communication, no leadership, completely beaten down workforce will it ever end?
Pilots. You bunch of pompus, cake eating clowns! How dare you throw the AMT`S under the bus for the incident on aircraft N350AA. We will not soon forget your leaderships comments on that one. You should try sticking to the flight schedule and fly the dang airplanes. The amount of whining and self rightous behaivor from your group we never would have defeated the germans with this bunch. :angry:
Yes I`m fed up. I can`t take it any longer. I used to enjoy my job and now it is "just a job". The AMTS are a dying breed that get zero respect from our union, our fellow unions, the compnay nor anyone else for that matter. I will do my job to the best of my 20yrs experince and ability. Certainly not for love of company but respect for myself.
A divided. beat down workforce. Thats is what the company wanted and now they have it. I shudder to thing about just how much worse things will get.
Word is that the Continental company counter offer to their mechanics is better than the TWU offer to AA!
The Continental (company)offer includes more vacation, more holidays, regional pay, better profit sharing and more raises than the TWU request at AA!
Imagine that, the company offered regional pay and certian members of our committee voted and were successful in removing it from us!!! I was told by certian members that the company would never go for regional pay but here we see one of AA's biggest competitors, the one that AA has said we need to be more like, offering it to their workers!!
Continental offered 9% structural increase over three years (vs the TWU 6% over three years) plus a 2.5% signing bonus along with a No layoff clause (which really doesnt mean much when you consider that there's a shortage of mechanics). Its end loaded like the TWU offer but it only asked for a one year pay freeze instead of two and from what I heard the IBT refused to even bring it back.
Keep in mind this is the company's first counter, it still sucks but AA continues to demand more concessions and we keep moving closer to the company!
Dont blame me, I warned that this would happen, just make sure you vote NO. Like I said, let our brothers and sisters at Continental fight for the profession just like our brothers and sisters at NWA did in 2001. We waited this long, why cut off Continentals chances of getting a better deal by settling for the concessionary piece of crap thats on the table now?
The Continental (company)offer includes more vacation, more holidays, regional pay, better profit sharing and more raises than the TWU request at AA!
Imagine that, the company offered regional pay and certian members of our committee voted and were successful in removing it from us!!! I was told by certian members that the company would never go for regional pay but here we see one of AA's biggest competitors, the one that AA has said we need to be more like, offering it to their workers!!
Continental offered 9% structural increase over three years (vs the TWU 6% over three years) plus a 2.5% signing bonus along with a No layoff clause (which really doesnt mean much when you consider that there's a shortage of mechanics). Its end loaded like the TWU offer but it only asked for a one year pay freeze instead of two and from what I heard the IBT refused to even bring it back.
Keep in mind this is the company's first counter, it still sucks but AA continues to demand more concessions and we keep moving closer to the company!
Dont blame me, I warned that this would happen, just make sure you vote NO. Like I said, let our brothers and sisters at Continental fight for the profession just like our brothers and sisters at NWA did in 2001. We waited this long, why cut off Continentals chances of getting a better deal by settling for the concessionary piece of crap thats on the table now?
Tex-Mech
Veteran
Bob,
So when the company rejects the offer on the table next month, are you going to push for a release? I sure hope so. I am going to ask Larry at the next meeting to ask for a release.
So when the company rejects the offer on the table next month, are you going to push for a release? I sure hope so. I am going to ask Larry at the next meeting to ask for a release.
OP
Chuck Schalk
Veteran
- Nov 17, 2006
- 1,042
- 1,149
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #1,316
So lets see;
NOTE: below are wages without license pay
SWA
2008= $34.97
2009= $36.02
2010= $37.10
2011= $38.21
CAL (porposed)
2008= $28.24
2009=$33.87
2010=$35.92
2011=$38.08
AA (Proposed)
2008=$27.20
2009=$27.20
2010=$28.02
2011=$28.86
Here are the three majors who havent gone BK within the last ten years, CAL did go BK twice, but they are still asking for a lot more than us.
I know it will depend on what you end up with but you can't get something you don't ask for!
NOTE: below are wages without license pay
SWA
2008= $34.97
2009= $36.02
2010= $37.10
2011= $38.21
CAL (porposed)
2008= $28.24
2009=$33.87
2010=$35.92
2011=$38.08
AA (Proposed)
2008=$27.20
2009=$27.20
2010=$28.02
2011=$28.86
Here are the three majors who havent gone BK within the last ten years, CAL did go BK twice, but they are still asking for a lot more than us.
I know it will depend on what you end up with but you can't get something you don't ask for!
Man of the People
Advanced
- Jul 14, 2004
- 160
- 11
Maybe if we had more strong men and women instead of the rats and snitches who run to management we'd be a little better off. Our foundation appears to have been built on sand......
Well I was given an update. Apparently its a three year contract offer but with only two raises. very similar to ours except that its not as end loaded. They get their first raise one year into the agreement, then their next raise the second year, at all times they would be earning more than us-no leapfrogging.
The Contract became amendable on Jan 1 2009.
CAL Company Proposal -9-29-09
Compensation
3% increase effective 1/1/2010
3% increase effective 1/1/2011
$1.00/hour market adjustment for EWR, NYC,BOS,LAX,SFO, SEA & SNA
Benifits
80/20 split & no change in Copays etc through 12/31/2011
New profit sharing plan-no details announced
No furlough for technicians on seniority list as if Sept 30, 2009, through 12/31/2011
Amendable 12/31/2009
2.5% lump sum of basic hourly rate earned in 2009 if ratified.
They have till November 15 to accept or reject-(they already rejected)
So its still a better deal than what the TWU offereed AA and most certainly a better deal than AA has offered (since AA is offering ZERO raises), because its not end loaded, they have more vacation, holidays and double time.
Basically Continental looked at what the TWU threw in front of AA and went with that, once again we are industry leaders in the downfall of the profession and the scourge of unionized airline workers across the country. When a company's initial offer is better than a unions final offer something is definately wrong with that union. When non-union people in a company get more holidays with higher permiums and more vacation something is wrong with that union. When a union runs around saying that a company is going bankrupt during contract negotiations only to have various creditors throw billions of dollars into that company something is wrong with that union. When a union sounds more like management than a union something is wrong with that union.
I urged that we wait and see what happened at Continental before we left this deal in front of the company. My concern was that if what just did happen at Continental happened that AA would jump on the deal because unlike some of the other workgroups at AA who are in negotiations AA enjoys a significant cost advantage when it comes to mechanics hourly rates of pay, we are already more than half way to the bottom and the difference between us and the bottom is very small compared to the difference between us and the top.
The fact is that most of the main proponants of this disasterous offer are now part of the International. Did these guys have their members in mind when they did this or was it the opportunity to go into the International?
One has to wonder , if we never came off our original table position what would Continentals counter have been, or would they have simply refused to counter like AA has done?
The Contract became amendable on Jan 1 2009.
CAL Company Proposal -9-29-09
Compensation
3% increase effective 1/1/2010
3% increase effective 1/1/2011
$1.00/hour market adjustment for EWR, NYC,BOS,LAX,SFO, SEA & SNA
Benifits
80/20 split & no change in Copays etc through 12/31/2011
New profit sharing plan-no details announced
No furlough for technicians on seniority list as if Sept 30, 2009, through 12/31/2011
Amendable 12/31/2009
2.5% lump sum of basic hourly rate earned in 2009 if ratified.
They have till November 15 to accept or reject-(they already rejected)
So its still a better deal than what the TWU offereed AA and most certainly a better deal than AA has offered (since AA is offering ZERO raises), because its not end loaded, they have more vacation, holidays and double time.
Basically Continental looked at what the TWU threw in front of AA and went with that, once again we are industry leaders in the downfall of the profession and the scourge of unionized airline workers across the country. When a company's initial offer is better than a unions final offer something is definately wrong with that union. When non-union people in a company get more holidays with higher permiums and more vacation something is wrong with that union. When a union runs around saying that a company is going bankrupt during contract negotiations only to have various creditors throw billions of dollars into that company something is wrong with that union. When a union sounds more like management than a union something is wrong with that union.
I urged that we wait and see what happened at Continental before we left this deal in front of the company. My concern was that if what just did happen at Continental happened that AA would jump on the deal because unlike some of the other workgroups at AA who are in negotiations AA enjoys a significant cost advantage when it comes to mechanics hourly rates of pay, we are already more than half way to the bottom and the difference between us and the bottom is very small compared to the difference between us and the top.
The fact is that most of the main proponants of this disasterous offer are now part of the International. Did these guys have their members in mind when they did this or was it the opportunity to go into the International?
One has to wonder , if we never came off our original table position what would Continentals counter have been, or would they have simply refused to counter like AA has done?
Why would the company reject it? Continentals first counter after just 10 months is higher than what the TWU asked for after two years of talks. UAL opens up in December and you can rest assured that their contract will match whatever Continental gets. If the IBT tries to organize Delta, Delta will raise their wages up to whatever Continental and UAL are getting, plus a little, just to try and kill the drive. So the only legacy carrier that would have a lower wage than us would be USAIR, and once they get bought we will be at the bottom.
The only reason why AA would reject this would be that they would be concerned about what would happen at the line stations, not because they expected deeper concessions. AA's performance would sharply decline and the current trickle of an exodos of the motivated and most talented would turn into a torrent. Those who remained wouldnt put much effort into getting AAs planes out on time, or at all. Why would they? The only ones that could afford to stay would be those who have spouses that work and earn more than them or those who use AA as their second job. Neither group would be highly motivated. Ironically we may see the company introduce regional pay, they already have it for starting pay and non-union personell. Imagine that, the company showing more concern for the guys in high cost areas than their union brothers and sisters!!
If for some reason the company did reject our concessionary offer I would be in favor of being released, then real negotiations could begin. Do you really think that Citibank and all those others who just dumped billions into AA are going to let AA go BK through a strike? AA will have to get serious about a deal once the clock starts ticking, their creditors will demand it. AA would be stupid to try and shoot for bottom pay, unlike 2005 there isnt a supply of mechanics out there and there isnt a surpluss of seats out there either.
D
Dorsch
Guest
I dont know where you got these dollar amounts from but you have ours way off. knock $5 off and you have it right. were in the same boat you are.
