TWU negotiations.........what?

[High Speed Steel]

And then there are ridiculous leaders who said bankruptcy was just a threat, there is more money on the table. Sad, very sad

 

[Frank Szabo]

And then there are ridiculous leaders who said bankruptcy was just a threat, there is more money on the table. Sad, very sad

lol.

Fixed your post for you.

 

[Mr Red]

And then there are ridiculous leaders who said bankruptcy was just a threat, there is more money on the table. Sad, very sad

There is money on the table! its just not for the people that do the work at this company!!!
Time to move on people,when you think it can't get any worse IT DOES !!

 

[Hopeful]

I'm not so sure that all the "Saved" jobs will be yes votes. Lets say you are an AMT in Tulsa, and under the deal they are cutting your pay by $10/hr, are you going to vote yes? Thats 800 no votes to me. You also have the skilled guys who work systems , engines and other high dollar work that even our peers who went through BK kept, they will be making much less than their airline peers,Then you have AFW, thats another 1000 or so NO votes and the 500 they are going to lay off in the rest of the system, so between the 1500 or so getting laid off, the 1300 Title II workers that dont get the Wage Adjustment, the 800 being bumped down and the 3500 line AMTs who would be agreeing to make less in 2018 than UAL is now we should be able to shoot it down even if they are successful at selling it down in Tulsa. Management admitted that this offer is "rediculously bad" but they also admitted that they only have to get 50% plus one to accept it.

So, at the end of the day.....The term sheets are what will be imposed.
It's a win-win for the company....They get exactly what they first sought.

 

[TWU informer]

And then there are ridiculous leaders who said bankruptcy was just a threat, there is more money on the table. Sad, very sad

OK.... I will bite,

What is your opinion?

Put your opinion out there so we can grade you!

If you disagree with someone here, then post your opinion that counters their opinion.

Don't just sit there and throw rocks, take a stand and stick by it.

I know you have enough seniority to survive this, so how much are YOU willing to give up to "save" 3000 jobs.
Last time it was saving 10,000 jobs and 3 maintenance bases, of course we now all know where that ended up.

This time it is only 3000 jobs, so the concessions should equal only 30% of the 2003 concessions.
Somehow I get the feeling we are about to pay or give up much more per head this time around.
Why not just all of us work for minimum wage and we can eliminate the unemployment problem so Obama can get re-elected and give us another favorable NMB mediator in exchange for our contributions and concessions towards the CAUSE.

What happened to the Unions that believed in and always sought better pay and working conditions, but have now changed to reduced pay/benefits/ working conditions in exchange for jobs?

Again, taking the same action over and over expecting different results can be called nothing short of insanity.

Claiming to save jobs, while allowing drastic increase in outsource capabilities is the epitome of dumdass, ignorant, and stupid all rolled up and baked into a pastry that looks real good to the eyes, but when you eat it, you die.

 

[Hopeful]

OK.... I will bite,

What is your opinion?

Put your opinion out there so we can grade you!

If you disagree with someone here, then post your opinion that counters their opinion.

Don't just sit there and throw rocks, take a stand and stick by it.

I know you have enough seniority to survive this, so how much are YOU willing to give up to "save" 3000 jobs.
Last time it was saving 10,000 jobs and 3 maintenance bases, of course we now all know where that ended up.

This time it is only 3000 jobs, so the concessions should equal only 30% of the 2003 concessions.
Somehow I get the feeling we are about to pay or give up much more per head this time around.
Why not just all of us work for minimum wage and we can eliminate the unemployment problem so Obama can get re-elected and give us another favorable NMB mediator in exchange for our contributions and concessions towards the CAUSE.

What happened to the Unions that believed in and always sought better pay and working conditions, but have now changed to reduced pay/benefits/ working conditions in exchange for jobs?

Again, taking the same action over and over expecting different results can be called nothing short of insanity.

Excellent post....
What scares me is that even one YES vote would be one too many.

 

[Bob Owens]

That's because they eliminated them during the BK process as they outsourced, and the mergers came afterwards, as AA is doing during the BK process.

Your jobs are being eliminated as part of the BK and outsourcing, not because of any merger that may or may not happen.

Tell the NW and UA guys that were put on the street they didn't lose any jobs or shops.

I respect your stand but find some of your statements misleading.

When did Southwest and Air Tran file BK?
In 2002 there was a surpluss of A&Ps
In 2003 there was a surpluss of A&Ps
In 2004 there was a surpluss of A&Ps
In 2005 there was a surpluss of A&Ps
AA put thousands of mechanics out on the street as well back then.

All three mergers took place since 2008

In 2012 there is no surpluss of A&Ps.

Typically mergers create synergies which results in surpluss workers. That has not happened to mechanics in any of the mergers. Outsourcing, thats a different issue but does AA really want to outsource as much as they claim?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Voting No will be a rough road for all of us, the International as well, because if the contract is abrogated and they do like they have for the last four years (six if you count the fact that they did not do the early openers as promised in 2003) and refuse to take an agressive position in getting to a fair deal in a timely manner the members can just stop paying them. No contract-no Article 38.



Could not agree with you more!

 

[Dilligas]

oops, dup post, my bad

 

[CMH_GSE]

I have to say, I am not very encouraged about what will transpire in the coming weeks.

514 put the IAM agreement on their website back when it became known there was an agreement with US Airways.

This was basically saying, that was what we were looking at working under if we merge.

The terms just released yesterday counter that, saying we will work under the LBO + these modified terms that reduce the 401K match, increase medical costs and ELIMINATE ANY profit sharing.

Details that were leaked out for the FA's agreement with US said they greed in full to their early out proposal.
The TWU early out that is agreed to is not even close to what the TWU proposed.

Honestly, the IAM contract is better than what they agreed to here, and that's not saying much.

I don't think I've ever been so disgusted in my life.

 

[Bob Owens]

And then there are ridiculous leaders who said bankruptcy was just a threat, there is more money on the table. Sad, very sad

For us it was just a threat because whether we settled or not would have no bearing on whether or not AA filed for BK. We are at the bottom.

Look at AA's business plan. Look at what they cut in BK so far. Leases to planes they did not fly and facilities they did not use. They say with $1.25 billion in labor savings they will be able to show $3billion in profits. So that means the other stuff they were able to cut will allow them to generate more revenue and at least $1.75 billion in profits (add in the losses for the total swing). So yes there is still money on the table as well. Thye dont need a penny from labor.

 

[TWU informer]

Voting No will be a rough road for all of us, the International as well, because if the contract is abrogated and they do like they have for the last four years (six if you count the fact that they did not do the early openers as promised in 2003) and refuse to take an agressive position in getting to a fair deal in a timely manner the members can just stop paying them. No contract-no Article 38.



Could not agree with you more!

And so now we know why the latest and greatest sellout is upon us. Now you know why I voted YES on the T/A.

You and Bob were assuming that the TWU would take an agressive posture, I will never understand why you thought that because there has never been any evidence of it from my membership status with the TWU.

I may never understand, but whatever.

 

[CMH_GSE]

What would the T/A that was voted down, pass by if it was put before us next week? 70, 80 percent?

 

[Bob Owens]

Why not just all of us work for minimum wage and we can eliminate the unemployment problem so Obama can get re-elected and give us another favorable NMB mediator in exchange for our contributions and concessions towards the CAUSE.

Or maybe we can elect Romney and eliminate the minimum wage and then we all can work several jobs! Romney can then fill the NMB with more of Larry Gibbons' buddies from AIRCON who will never recommend that anybody ever gets released, unless of course the carrier requests it.

Otherwise good post.

 

[TWU informer]

I have to say, I am not very encouraged about what will transpire in the coming weeks.
I don't think I've ever been so disgusted in my life.

Really, you must have low seniority. Because anyone with more than 22 years should have been this disgusted for as long as TWU has been the representation. Unless you were in the bought off group each time before like 1988-1992 seniority group, then this is same story different verse. I have been in the screwed group everytime since 1983.