TWU negotiations.........what?

[local 12 proud]

Absolutely. I accept that. I pay double for gas today relative to what I was paying two years ago. And I'm paying more for plane tickets.

Raising fares is a more intellectually honest way of passing on higher fuel costs to customers, but I understand that airlines can't raise them far or fast enough without killing demand, hence the nickel and dime fees.

Demand will all ways be there, you just may not be able to afford it. It should be a luxury to fly as it once was. Its not your born given right to fly for cheaper than going greyhound.

The well is dry, we the employees are done subsidizing cheap air fares and rising fuel cost. It will be passed on just like in every other buisness or AA will sink!

 

[wingit88]

At this point, concessions for jobs is your reality. From your previous posts I know you will choose to ignore this reality and fight on to the bitter end, but I'm going to make the point anyway. Your destiny is entirely in your own hands. AA is not certainly doomed to success or failure. That's up to employees and management and how well the two groups can come together to survive this crisis. I'm not one-sided on this: management should chuck its payouts out and tie future payouts to profitability. Payouts for non-management should be the same, so everyone is playing by the same rule book.

This is a sensible outlook, but I don't think it will happen anytime soon. I am growing more irritated about our situation every day. We have nothing left to give and management still takes their share and then some. But we also don't take what we can when we can and the industry grows bleaker by the day. You are correct in saying that management and employees have to find common ground in this arena. I have come to the conclusion that an entire overhaul of all pay - employees and management alike - is what has to happen if this airline is going to keep going and remain competitive. Everyone should get a piece of the pie when the company does well and I don't mean a measly $800 or so check thrown our way to shut us up. As you say, level the playing field and play by the same rules.

 

[frontline]

This is a sensible outlook, but I don't think it will happen anytime soon. I am growing more irritated about our situation every day. We have nothing left to give and management still takes their share and then some. But we also don't take what we can when we can and the industry grows bleaker by the day. You are correct in saying that management and employees have to find common ground in this arena. I have come to the conclusion that an entire overhaul of all pay - employees and management alike - is what has to happen if this airline is going to keep going and remain competitive. Everyone should get a piece of the pie when the company does well and I don't mean a measly $800 or so check thrown our way to shut us up. As you say, level the playing field and play by the same rules.

That's what I'm talking about. Tie everyone's pay together on the same metrics. And that metric should be PROFITS. Not performance relative to other airlines. Profits. If the company is not making a profit we all suffer together. If it is, we all benefit. I have no problem with management taking its cut as long as I get mine.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

This is a sensible outlook, but I don't think it will happen anytime soon. I am growing more irritated about our situation every day. We have nothing left to give and management still takes their share and then some. But we also don't take what we can when we can and the industry grows bleaker by the day. You are correct in saying that management and employees have to find common ground in this arena. I have come to the conclusion that an entire overhaul of all pay - employees and management alike - is what has to happen if this airline is going to keep going and remain competitive. Everyone should get a piece of the pie when the company does well and I don't mean a measly $800 or so check thrown our way to shut us up. As you say, level the playing field and play by the same rules.

I can certainly understand your frustration, but at this point I don't see the company having anything left to give. It's all going to OPEC, like it or not. I really think it was a mistake not to bring this proposal to the members for a vote. Maybe they were afraid it would pass?

 

[wingit88]

I can certainly understand your frustration, but at this point I don't see the company having anything left to give. It's all going to OPEC, like it or not. I really think it was a mistake not to bring this proposal to the members for a vote. Maybe they were afraid it would pass?

I don't know what the deal was or who had alterior motives here. It is troublesome to think that we could have had something, even if it was not what we feel we are owed, and maybe missed our shot at this. Who knows what the company will concoct next and TWU will approve. If this fuel and economic mess continues to persist, we could really get the shaft. I would hate to have to live by the mantra "coulda, woulda, shoulda" for the next few years. No one can afford that.

 

[Bob Owens]

I read and still can't believe what kind a A Holes are on this site. You could care less of any member other that yourself. AMFA sure raised the bar. Opened the door for layoffs. Some people would rather have a job. No job pays 0. Don't need a paycut then. Fact is most of you are gone. By to you soon one day.

Next time try posting before you get drunk.

 

[1AA]

I don't know what the deal was or who had alterior motives here. It is troublesome to think that we could have had something, even if it was not what we feel we are owed, and maybe missed our shot at this. Who knows what the company will concoct next and TWU will approve. If this fuel and economic mess continues to persist, we could really get the shaft. I would hate to have to live by the mantra "coulda, woulda, shoulda" for the next few years. No one can afford that.

Even if the proposal was voted in what makes you think that AA would go back to the union and ask for concessions just like they did in 2003? The economy is not going to get better overnight, the oil companies blame the government and so on. So a vote for it or not it will be mute if the economy stays the way it is. AA will do what it needs to survive. The proposal was nothing to write home about. We all saw layoffs coming. Until the next President moves into the White House things are status quo with good ole George the oil tycoon.

 

[MCI transplant]

Even if the proposal was voted in what makes you think that AA would go back to the union and ask for concessions just like they did in 2003? The economy is not going to get better overnight, the oil companies blame the government and so on. So a vote for it or not it will be mute if the economy stays the way it is. AA will do what it needs to survive. The proposal was nothing to write home about. We all saw layoffs coming. Until the next President moves into the White House things are status quo with good ole George the oil tycoon.

<_< ------ Yea! But I wise we had someone to vote for, instead of "Larry, Moe, or Curly!"

 

[AMFAMAN]

<_< ------ Yea! But I wise we had someone to vote for, instead of "Larry, Moe, or Curly!"

Yeah, how about that, the Miami president votes yes after just getting relected. Rumor has it that he was forced to resign today, but have yet to confirm this rumor. I highly doubt that the MIA AMT's are going to keep a president in office that votes for a sellout agreement that even Tulsa and MCI voted against...OUCH

 

[MCI transplant]

Yeah, how about that, the Miami president votes yes after just getting relected. Rumor has it that he was forced to resign today, but have yet to confirm this rumor. I highly doubt that the MIA AMT's are going to keep a president in office that votes for a sellout agreement that even Tulsa and MCI voted against...OUCH

<_< ----- Interesting! But I was referring to the U.S. Presidental race! :huh:

 

[Chuck Schalk]

The contract proposal that was proposed with the TWU blessings was nothing more than what we gave back that others in bankruptcy didn't.
In Bankruptcy:
they never lost their double time on holidays and kept more holidyas than we did
They had sick days at full pay
I believe they recieved a cash bonus to sign
I am not sure about vacation time

how is this a great proposal? This should have been given back in good faith and then offer a proposal!
let me know if I missed anything...

 

[bigdawg52]

The contract proposal that was proposed with the TWU blessings was nothing more than what we gave back that others in bankruptcy didn't.
In Bankruptcy:
they never lost their double time on holidays and kept more holidyas than we did
They had sick days at full pay
I believe they recieved a cash bonus to sign
I am not sure about vacation time

how is this a great proposal? This should have been given back in good faith and then offer a proposal!
let me know if I missed anything...

You my friend are a borderline idiot. Think before you post again. Because B.K. , thsy lost a lot more than they gained.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

You my friend are a borderline idiot. Think before you post again. Because B.K. , thsy lost a lot more than they gained.

dawg,

Feeling brave calling someone an idiot from behind an alias? Listen, Chuck knows more about contract negotiations twu style than you care to admit. Now, if you insist on drinking kool-aid than you are more than "borderline".

 

[Chuck Schalk]

You my friend are a borderline idiot. Think before you post again. Because B.K. , thsy lost a lot more than they gained.

It is hard to be offended from comments from an alias. I never said they gained more in bankruptcy. But if you are in the know of our negotiations of past you would understand my logic. Do you understand the TWU in 2003 gave the company the bankruptcy plan and we reduced our head count by a few thousand. When AMFA filed for a card count the TWU and AA stated that we had 21,000 eligible members. Now how many members are eligible to sign? 14,000 maybe? where did they all go? We gave them more concessions than anyone else and the company got their headcount down as they threatened if the members did not approve of the contract. Double check the facts.....look at bankruptcy proposal theTWU Int'l rejected from the company in march of 2003 and then compare what we did not give in the contract that was enventually jammed down our throats by the TWU. Rest assured they were able to keep the company paying the TWU presidents salary in the proposal to the tune of 3 million dollars. Do your homework Mr. Alias before you throw your opinion of anyone.

 

[Vortilon]

You my friend are a borderline idiot. Think before you post again. Because B.K. , thsy lost a lot more than they gained.

You might want to get back on the short bus and study up Dawg.... You are entitled to your own opinion now - but not your own facts. <_<