TWU negotiations.........what?

[Chuck Schalk]

. We are either going to reach an agreement or they will go to the judge and abbrogate and get those changes and more.
[/quote]


Thats is your answer then, take what ever they give you and vote for it. That is your choice and wish you all the best

 

[TWU informer]

Dave,

I can ask you the same question, what is your stand on removing maintenance from class 2 stations? You will have a vote as well. We do not have line item veto power. The contract will come as a package as it always does. How can I seperate the issues with one vote?
the fight is before it goes to paper in the contract proposal.

So your answer is to just ask another question instead of answering.

Ok nevermind Chuck.

I will tell you my position, I want this job to last until I retire. I would like for younger people to have the chance at these jobs.
If that means something has to be given up again, like it has in the past, then so be it.

I am not in favor of turning American Airlines into a another PanAm, Eastern, TWA, NWA, or Braniff.

$25.00 per hour for what is classified as unskilled labor is not worth scorched earth to me. At least I have the balls to admit that.

The biggest problem we have with elected TWU leaders is their inability to tell the truth or their true feelings because politics gets in the way of their abillity to lead.

A Good Leader will tell the truth, lead the people, admit when we have limited options, and explain in detail why.

Current leaders hide the truth, tell people what they want to hear, and lead closer and closer to destruction of all the jobs while blaming someone else all along the way there.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

So your answer is to just ask another question instead of answering.

Ok nevermind Chuck.

I will tell you my position, I want this job to last until I retire. I would like for younger people to have the chance at these jobs.
If that means something has to be given up again, like it has in the past, then so be it.

I am not in favor of turning American Airlines into a another PanAm, Eastern, TWA, NWA, or Braniff.

$25.00 per hour for what is classified as unskilled labor is not worth scorched earth to me. At least I have the balls to admit that.

That is where we differ, in our world we can not take another hit and have our families survive anymore. Our families have been greatly impacted to the point we will either have to move or find another job to survive so we will not accept another concession as our families futures depend on it. there is no room for compromise where I come from. I am not knocking your ideology it is just different from mine.

 

[TWU informer]

Thats is your answer then, take what ever they give you and vote for it. That is your choice and wish you all the best

You are the elected leader Chuck, tell me what my options are here if they differ than I believe. You think taking a stand now is going to change the outcome? I don't. In fact the view I see of your taking a stand leads to the same damn road, but you can blame someone else, but the outcome is the same.

Nobody in Tulsa is telling us, they are just like the rest of the elected leaders. They would rather not be seen, because they do not want to tell the truth, and some feel guilty walking around telling people only what they want to hear.

There is no leadership in the TWU, not even in New York.
All there are is politicians holding office, sitting back waiting to insure they can blame someone else for where we are.

Ball Less leaders going to sit and watch the profession get decimated as long as they can point the finger at and blame someone else for the destruction.

All the while talking big and bold when the truth is none of that big and bold will ever transpire as long as they are leaders. Yet, even though they know the big and bold is not going to happen, they go home proud every night, because they spoke about the way it should be, not the way it really is.

FARCE!

 

[Chuck Schalk]

You are the elected leader Chuck, tell me what my options are here if they differ than I believe. You think taking a stand now is going to change the outcome? I don't. In fact the view I see of your taking a stand leads to the same damn road, but you can blame someone else, but the outcome is the same.

Nobody in Tulsa is telling us, they are just like the rest of the elected leaders. They would rather not be seen, because they do not want to tell the truth, and some feel guilty walking around telling people only what they want to hear.

There is no leadership in the TWU, not even in New York.
All there are is politicians holding office, sitting back waiting to insure they can blame someone else for where we are.

Ball Less leaders going to sit and watch the profession get decimated as long as they can point the finger at and blame someone else for the destruction.

All the while talking big and bold when the truth is none of that big and bold will ever transpire as long as they are leaders. Yet, even though they know the big and bold is not going to happen, they go home proud every night, because they spoke about the way it should be, not the way it really is.


with this said Dave, you are your own critic with one vote like me and entitled to your opinion. we will see how it pans out.

good luck to you

 

[Mr Red]

So your answer is to just ask another question instead of answering.

Ok nevermind Chuck.

I will tell you my position, I want this job to last until I retire. I would like for younger people to have the chance at these jobs.
If that means something has to be given up again, like it has in the past, then so be it.

I am not in favor of turning American Airlines into a another PanAm, Eastern, TWA, NWA, or Braniff.

$25.00 per hour for what is classified as unskilled labor is not worth scorched earth to me. At least I have the balls to admit that.

The biggest problem we have with elected TWU leaders is their inability to tell the truth or their true feelings because politics gets in the way of their abillity to lead.

A Good Leader will tell the truth, lead the people, admit when we have limited options, and explain in detail why.

Current leaders hide the truth, tell people what they want to hear, and lead closer and closer to destruction of all the jobs while blaming someone else all along the way there.

So I give u a loaded gun and tell u to shoot yourself,I don't think so.You fight till the end.As i've said before, its not our decision to give away pension or prefunding,The company needs to take responcibility for that.Ive got 10,000 in prefund I want the match if they discontinue the program.

 

[TWU informer]

That is where we differ, in our world we can not take another hit and have our families survive anymore. Our families have been greatly impacted to the point we will either have to move or find another job to survive so we will not accept another concession as our families futures depend on it. there is no room for compromise where I come from. I am not knocking your ideology it is just different from mine.

What part of "We are going to take another hit" do you not understand?

If you do not think you are taking another hit, then you have your head buried in the sand.

If we had leadership, the entire industry would be standing together and preparing a nation wide shut down.

Instead, we have leaders pretending that because there might be a shortage of people with the skills or desire to maintain aircraft for lower pay, which is patently false, we can just vote no on every offer and that will change the outcome. Very Short Sighted based on history within this industry and the labor movement as a whole.

Where do you plan on moving to or working Chuck, because you are going to take another hit, regardless of your not going to comprimise position which is admirable on the surface, but does not change a damn thing if we are going to continue the same song and dance expecting a different outcome.

 

[TWU informer]

So I give u a loaded gun and tell u to shoot yourself,I don't think so.You fight till the end.As i've said before, its not our decision to give away pension or prefunding,The company needs to take responcibility for that.Ive got 10,000 in prefund I want the match if they discontinue the program.

Ok that is fine, we will "fight to the end". Just like all of the deceased and decimated that have done the same before us.

You guys and your defintion of "fight" is basically the same as James C Little's definition. James C Little "We'll Fight Like Hell"

Chuck and Red " We will fight to the end, and not compromise" .... and yet every battle before us with the same strategy has ended the with the exact same outcome.

In most fights of this magnitude, participants and leaders understand the need to have some weapon before entering just to have a chance at making a decent showing.

Us on the other hand, we call "fighting to the end" continuously showing up to the fight without any weapons, not enough manpower, get our asses kicked and claim success even though we never succeed.

Until people in the industry ban together in large enough numbers beyond single company boundries. Your fight as you say is nothing more than suicide and/or bullcrap rhetoric.

 

[TWU informer]

So I give u a loaded gun and tell u to shoot yourself,I don't think so.You fight till the end.As i've said before, its not our decision to give away pension or prefunding,The company needs to take responcibility for that.Ive got 10,000 in prefund I want the match if they discontinue the program.

Wow a $10,000.00 victory is in your future?

Yet, you have lost more than that since the last T/A was rejected.

Congratulations Captain!

 

[Mr Red]

Wow a $10,000.00 victory is in your future?

Yet, you have lost more than that since the last T/A was rejected.

Congratulations Captain!

Oh just let them have it,I don't think so.We are bottom of the barrel already,a couple dollars above MROs.Our Benifits are almost non existant,we don't need to
lower the bar of this profession any lower!!!Im not into letting the RAPIST have his way.

 

[TWU informer]

Oh just let them have it,I don't think so.We are bottom of the barrel already,a couple dollars above MROs.Our Benifits are almost non existant,we don't need to
lower the bar of this profession any lower!!!Im not into letting the RAPIST have his way.

You are a perfect specimen as to what I have been posting.

It doesn't matter to you and others if you are getting your ass kicked and stomped around like battered and abused companions.
As long as you can claim it was not volunteered and was not by choice then it is at least tolerable. As long as you can blame someone or something else, you are OK with that ass kicking.

I keep trying to tell there is a better way, but we must have a different direction, and a complete revised strategy.

And you guys are so intent on keeping things the way they are, that you attack me and attempt to manilupate the thinking of others by name calling, or at minimum justification of your own failure by blaming folks like myself.

The sad thing is, I appear to be in the minority and must be lead around by the majority. So I get the same ass kicking.

We have been lead by bluff, only have what we have by bluff, and yet we are going to do battle by bluff one more time.

No doubt the outcome will surely be different this time. Or maybe not, maybe we will just blame someone else as we lick our wounds and bury our dead while preparing for the next time, same strategy, same lie, same farce.

 

[enough already]

You are a perfect specimen as to what I have been posting.

It doesn't matter to you and others if you are getting your ass kicked and stomped around like battered and abused companions.
As long as you can claim it was not volunteered and was not by choice then it is at least tolerable. As long as you can blame someone or something else, you are OK with that ass kicking.

I keep trying to tell there is a better way, but we must have a different direction, and a complete revised strategy.

And you guys are so intent on keeping things the way they are, that you attack me and attempt to manilupate the thinking of others by name calling, or at minimum justification of your own failure by blaming folks like myself.

The sad thing is, I appear to be in the minority and must be lead around by the majority. So I get the same ass kicking.

We have been lead by bluff, only have what we have by bluff, and yet we are going to do battle by bluff one more time.

No doubt the outcome will surely be different this time. Or maybe not, maybe we will just blame someone else as we lick our wounds and bury our dead while preparing for the next time, same strategy, same lie, same farce.

You're fighting a losing battle. Back away from the computer!!

 

[Buck]

I do not support outsourcing any work and have filed grievances on it. Tulsa has now been put in a position that they are not used to. Tulsa is being tested as to how strong of a union body they are. Will Tulsa allow the jobs to be taken away or stand tall. Time will tell. We understand the struggle as we have been through it before. I hope Tulsa proves themselves as they are the bulk of the union.

I am not sure what you mean when you say Tulsa. If you are referring to the members of the Union Local or the unionized workforce, I see them as two different groups. All I hear on the floor is how bad we have it, not just Tulsa but as a workforce. The union and the company communicate what the industry is paying by the hour to other mechanics in this case, then all the members see is that their Representative cannot get anywhere close to that number. Whether it is the pension multiplier or the available negotiated dollars are just going somewhere else, the membership does not see anything else and takes everything else for granted.
I do not believe that the "bulk of the union" has the same vision as the rest of the membership throughout the country and never have.

 

[strikeforce]

You are a perfect specimen as to what I have been posting.

It doesn't matter to you and others if you are getting your ass kicked and stomped around like battered and abused companions.
As long as you can claim it was not volunteered and was not by choice then it is at least tolerable. As long as you can blame someone or something else, you are OK with that ass kicking.

I keep trying to tell there is a better way, but we must have a different direction, and a complete revised strategy.

And you guys are so intent on keeping things the way they are, that you attack me and attempt to manilupate the thinking of others by name calling, or at minimum justification of your own failure by blaming folks like myself.

The sad thing is, I appear to be in the minority and must be lead around by the majority. So I get the same ass kicking.

We have been lead by bluff, only have what we have by bluff, and yet we are going to do battle by bluff one more time.

No doubt the outcome will surely be different this time. Or maybe not, maybe we will just blame someone else as we lick our wounds and bury our dead while preparing for the next time, same strategy, same lie, same farce.

Informer,

If you believe in voluntarily giving AA another handout, then do it......and, while I certainly can't speak for others, I WILL NOT give American Airlines another dime Voluntarily......they will have to steal it from me through the courts. And, I'm sure they will do that. I'm only one vote out of 11,000.....if the majority feels like you do.....I'm screwed, and if the majority feels like I do....I'm screwed, so what's the difference.

The last time WE voluntarily gave this company our hard earned money the company bought a 30M townhouse in London, lavishly provided themselves with bonuses and drove this company to BK. I'm not handing a financially reckless management team another dime. Got it!!!!!

 

[737823]

Informer,

If you believe in voluntarily giving AA another handout, then do it......and, while I certainly can't speak for others, I WILL NOT give American Airlines another dime Voluntarily......they will have to steal it from me through the courts. And, I'm sure they will do that. I'm only one vote out of 11,000.....if the majority feels like you do.....I'm screwed, and if the majority feels like I do....I'm screwed, so what's the difference.

The last time WE voluntarily gave this company our hard earned money the company bought a 30M townhouse in London, lavishly provided themselves with bonuses and drove this company to BK. I'm not handing a financially reckless management team another dime. Got it!!!!!

Yet some here believe your collective bargaining agent, the TWU engineers concessionary agreements for AA.

Josh