TWU negotiations.........what?

[Buck]

I was actually okay with the $39.85 I was going to make on midnights in the July 2010 TA, keeping my retiree medical, and pension.

Why are these new people not hiring on with UPS and WN at $40 plus? Hmmmm...

Glad you were okay. But the point remains that bankruptcy was coming for some time. The company was already in trouble in 2003. It is also my understanding that the company has been working on this bankrutcy as far back as August of 2011 and most likely many years. Your wage whatever they would have been, would eventually have its day in court. You also did not know would have happen had the 2010 T/A passed. That could have forced the company to take some sort of debt relief action, maybe even filing shortly after ratification. Then there are the other unions. Why has the TWU been waiting on the Pilots? And you have no idea whether you would have kept your pension or retiree medical. You might retain some of that in the end as it is.

 

[787nightmare]

I was actually okay with the $39.85 I was going to make on midnights in the July 2010 TA, keeping my retiree medical, and pension.

Why are these new people not hiring on with UPS and WN at $40 plus? Hmmmm...

Because as any fool knows, UP, WN along with FX, are the most desirable carriers to work for. Unlike most of the so called "legacy carriers", those 3 actually attract highly
qualified/experienced applicants from other major airlines that are good and fed up with being spoon fed CRAP from there employer/union(such as AA-twu, one in the same).

 

[Goey]

Fool Thinking

All it takes is a simple change in SCOPE and Daily Flight Formulas and more Line AMT's will be looking for work than Overhaul AMT's

You should consider coming out of your chimera and get back to reality.

Informer you are a complete idiot? You have no grasp on reality. None of the current airlines operating have decreased line maintenance actually they have increased it. What are you crazy? The terms of of where work will be performed and how many personell are needed will be dictated by AA and stamped by the courts the only place that the unions may have a say is restructuring of our contracts and pensions THAT'S IT. Get it through your head OH is on a short leash and may not be at the new AA. Line maintenance is a nesassary evil. Sorry I got lots of friends in Ttown but it's gonna be messy.
Goey

 

[lineguy43]

Well I am crushed now.

Better to be an employed TWU suck boy than an unemployed AMFA suck boy at NWA, UA, and AS.

Well dude for someone who has 35 yrs in the industry you are still clueless. Keep sucking the TWu teet . I was AMFA and yes I got kicked to the street. I had 17 yrs at the time. But we fought for the whole industry not just us. Guess what I walked across the street in Memphis to FedEx I have coming up on 6 years now and I make 46.26 an hr. How much do you make under the TWu? At least I know my salary is a direct result of the hard work we did at NW under AMFA regardless of outcome. The other airlines made a race to the bottom after our union was busted but UPS, SWA and FDX kept those top wages and in fact the A@P's at FX are getting another 1.40 raise on their license in Jan. Keep hanging on to those TWu dreams.

 

[Birdman]

I was actually okay with the $39.85 I was going to make on midnights in the July 2010 TA, keeping my retiree medical, and pension.

Did I miss something in the May 2010 t/a that would enable you to make $39.85 and wouldn't AA have been in even worse financial condition if they would have had to pony up millions to fulfill that t/a? Once again, only quitting AA in 2003 would have preserved the $20,000+ gain from the 2001-02 contract. We won't know till the dust settles as to when you would have needed to quit to preserve the 2010 gains you were cheated out of by Bob Owens and 2/3's of the membership.

Get it through your head OH is on a short leash and may not be at the new AA. Line maintenance is a nesassary evil. Sorry I got lots of friends in Ttown but it's gonna be messy.
Goey

There are 7 hangars with 22 docks in Tule. The dock plans, which are flexible, are full for the next 2 years and Timco can only handle 1 757 at a time. Care to inform everyone as to where all this work will be performed?

 

[Bob Owens]

I was actually okay ,,,, keeping my retiree medical, and pension.

Hmm, did you say something about "I got mine"? Sure you would have kept your retiree medical, for the time being (would you expect us to fight for your retiree medical in BK after we lost ours?) but the rest of us would have lost all our prefunding and the new hires would not have the same pension, they would have the smallest contribution in the industry and it would be capped at 2080 hours instead of all hours.

By the way didnt a member of management in DFW quit AA to get hired as a mechanic at SWA recently?

 

[Bob Owens]

Get it through your head OH is on a short leash and may not be at the new AA.

Goey, where do you think all the OH work is going to go? Even though we are getting new planes they wont all be coming at once, and competitors are finding that outsourcing doesnt produce the savings they expected. If AA dumped their fleet into the market prices would soar. Most of the contracts that have been signed the last few years brought more work in house. The airlines and the unions sell it as a gain for workers, I see it as the airlines getting the workers to pay for things the company really wants anyway.

 

[Overspeed]

There it is - the hypocrisy we were looking for. You were part of the over 50 crowd, and were willing to screw your (under 50) union brothers out of their retiree medical? That was only one of the reasons I voted that turd down.
Don't even talk about line vs ovhl like you have some moral high ground! You were only thinking about yourself while trying to lay guilt trips on people that disagreed with you.

There it is - you are the misinformed. Retiree medical did not go away. Only pre-funding did. Pre-funding is a a trust that - unlike what Bob has said - cannot be used by AMR for other than paying benefits that the trust was created for. We would all still get retiree medical under the July 2010 TA plan.

The only moral high ground I stand on is discussing factual information. Not half-truths like the 'Vote no coalition" does.

 

[Overspeed]

Hmm, did you say something about "I got mine"? Sure you would have kept your retiree medical, for the time being (would you expect us to fight for your retiree medical in BK after we lost ours?) but the rest of us would have lost all our prefunding and the new hires would not have the same pension, they would have the smallest contribution in the industry and it would be capped at 2080 hours instead of all hours.

By the way didnt a member of management in DFW quit AA to get hired as a mechanic at SWA recently?

So now you will have no defined benefit pension plan and now have a defined contribution plan at best. http://www.bloomberg.com/video/82762106/

Who cares about a member of mgmt quitting to work somewhere else. People quit all the time. Now we will have maybe 2,000 to 3,000 looking for jobs at WN and UPS and they will all get jobs there right? Right!?!?

Bob, we are all not worried because we are not losing our pension, overhaul is secure, no jobs will be lost, and BK is just a threat. Oops, that last one you were a little off on. We forgive you.

 

[Overspeed]

Well dude for someone who has 35 yrs in the industry you are still clueless. Keep sucking the TWu teet . I was AMFA and yes I got kicked to the street. I had 17 yrs at the time. But we fought for the whole industry not just us. Guess what I walked across the street in Memphis to FedEx I have coming up on 6 years now and I make 46.26 an hr. How much do you make under the TWu? At least I know my salary is a direct result of the hard work we did at NW under AMFA regardless of outcome. The other airlines made a race to the bottom after our union was busted but UPS, SWA and FDX kept those top wages and in fact the A@P's at FX are getting another 1.40 raise on their license in Jan. Keep hanging on to those TWu dreams.

So out of 4,500 AMTs at NWA how many got jobs at WN, FDX, and UPS? All? Half? A Quarter? 10? Yeah, a lot of people took the hit. You guys won! Hooray! You know who won? OV. He got a big ass annuity of over $500K when he left in 2008 after all the thousands of NWA, AS, and UA jobs were lost.

OV says, "Winning!"

I am glad you got another job though. And AMFA had nothing to do with it. It's FDX management scared and trying to keep a union off the property just like DL. How many AMTs do you have per aircraft making that kind of money? Is it near 8,000 for 400 aircraft? Uh, no. That's because your overhaul is outsourced to Aeroframe, AAR, Goodrich, ST Aero, and TIMCO. They all make what, $25 top out. You get $46 hourly of the backs of your other AMT brothers and sisters. How's that feel? You are now in the AMT 1% Club.

 

[Overspeed]

Did I miss something in the May 2010 t/a that would enable you to make $39.85 and wouldn't AA have been in even worse financial condition if they would have had to pony up millions to fulfill that t/a? Once again, only quitting AA in 2003 would have preserved the $20,000+ gain from the 2001-02 contract. We won't know till the dust settles as to when you would have needed to quit to preserve the 2010 gains you were cheated out of by Bob Owens and 2/3's of the membership.


There are 7 hangars with 22 docks in Tule. The dock plans, which are flexible, are full for the next 2 years and Timco can only handle 1 757 at a time. Care to inform everyone as to where all this work will be performed?

$39.85 was top out for CC on midnights under the TA. Didn't you read the copy of the TA?

Remember there is more than just TIMCO. The 2003 AMR Vermont Plan called for keeping TULE open only and MCIE and AFW to close in the event of BK. My money is on that AMR will stick with the one base plan. That would tie well with the future new aircraft deliveries. Base capacity will match the younger AA fleet.

 

[FWAAA]

There are 7 hangars with 22 docks in Tule. The dock plans, which are flexible, are full for the next 2 years and Timco can only handle 1 757 at a time. Care to inform everyone as to where all this work will be performed?

The dock plans were "full" for the next two years before the company filed a bankruptcy petition that might find it dumiping large numbers of MD-80s plus some older 757s and perhaps some older 763s. Even if AA keeps every old plane (fantasyville), there are dozens of narrowbody and widebody bays at MROs in the USA, Mexico, El Salvador and Brasil. Aeroman is adding three bays that will open in April. ST in Mobile and San Antonio, AAR, Timco and others. Each new 737 delivered represents a several year heavy check holiday during which the MROs can ramp up their capacity and that won't be difficult if they're given four to six years lead time. Here's an article discussing the expansion of MRO capabilities in Brasil:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/brazil-mro-sector-poised-for-major-expansion-343930/

And widebodies can be overhauled in Asia, just like at UA, CO and DL.

Goey, where do you think all the OH work is going to go? Even though we are getting new planes they wont all be coming at once, and competitors are finding that outsourcing doesnt produce the savings they expected. If AA dumped their fleet into the market prices would soar. Most of the contracts that have been signed the last few years brought more work in house. The airlines and the unions sell it as a gain for workers, I see it as the airlines getting the workers to pay for things the company really wants anyway.

It may not go away overnight, but AA won't have to overhaul any plane it stops flying, and that could be dozens of planes in just a few weeks.

 

[Buck]

So out of 4,500 AMTs at NWA how many got jobs at WN, FDX, and UPS? All? Half? A Quarter? 10? Yeah, a lot of people took the hit. You guys won! Hooray! You know who won? OV. He got a big ass annuity of over $500K when he left in 2008 after all the thousands of NWA, AS, and UA jobs were lost.

OV says, "Winning!"

I am glad you got another job though. And AMFA had nothing to do with it. It's FDX management scared and trying to keep a union off the property just like DL. How many AMTs do you have per aircraft making that kind of money? Is it near 8,000 for 400 aircraft? Uh, no. That's because your overhaul is outsourced to Aeroframe, AAR, Goodrich, ST Aero, and TIMCO. They all make what, $25 top out. You get $46 hourly of the backs of your other AMT brothers and sisters. How's that feel? You are now in the AMT 1% Club.

While this belongs in the 757 TIMCO thread, it is appropriate for this moment.

It would seem that TIMCO had already asked for a ten day extension, yes with a penalty phase. As for the test flight on 12/05/2011 we shall see. Delivery is 2300/16. The most interesting information that I have gathered, was that during the inspection of the gutted cabin, the FAA came on board and questioned the mechanic who had performed the inspection, per what authority are performing this inspection on a American Airlines aircraft? It seems that this licensed individual had not been to any documentation class on AA aircraft. No more details yet, however if it is like any other issue, the truth will eventually surface.

 

[Birdman]

$39.85 was top out for CC on midnights under the TA. Didn't you read the copy of the TA?

Just curious because few in Tulsa did the math for line/CC/mids. So your a midnight crewchief on the line? If that's the case, you would have gotten a larger loan from the compAAny and possibly had to return a greater amount. We'll soon see.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

What choice will we have if our contract is so inferior that I can't provide for my family! We are all struggling in the high cost areas and I don't mean that things are tight, I mean, I can not pay my basic bills and I do not want to work at american Airlines till I am 70. We gave concessions year after year we were told to protect our pay and benefits and in the end they want it all and then some! we protected nothing. If the creditors committee and the judge thinks that taking away our last bit of security is going to save the company think again it will do the opposite. Then their decisions will be what brought american down not the mechanics.