TWU negotiations.........what?

[Rogallo]

what are market rates for mro's. On the line if united votes in there t/a on the 29th are base pay will be the lowest with only USair behind us.

Rogallo who do you work for? AA

A&P Mechanic
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Employer: PlaneTech
Salary $40,000 - $45,000 a year.
Job Type: Contract / Other Maintenance Job
Date Posted 23-Nov-2011 (apply by 23-Dec-2011)

Mobile is 2% cheaper than Tulsa to live. Do the math.

And yes, I am employed at AA.....for now!!!

 

[Buck]

A&P Mechanic
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Employer: PlaneTech
Salary $40,000 - $45,000 a year.
Job Type: Contract / Other Maintenance Job
Date Posted 23-Nov-2011 (apply by 23-Dec-2011)

Mobile is 2% cheaper than Tulsa to live. Do the math.

And yes, I am employed at AA.....for now!!!

In this case, the cost living for the employee has no bearing. It will be the cost of business. Tulsa owns the facility that American uses for it's OH. In the past if AA wanted Tulsa found a way to give. Someone told me that for every employee American were to layoff, that 15 non-employees would be affected. You also have to remember that it is the average salary that a business cares about. With AA's OSM and possibly a ASM program, AA can get the average salary as negotiated and at the same time develope a mechanic pool, that is familiar with AA's way of doing business and having required training completed ready to go, represented by the union.

 

[787nightmare]

In this case, the cost living for the employee has no bearing. It will be the cost of business. Tulsa owns the facility that American uses for it's OH. In the past if AA wanted Tulsa found a way to give. Someone told me that for every employee American were to layoff, that 15 non-employees would be affected. You also have to remember
that it is the average salary that a business cares about. With AA's OSM and possibly a ASM program, AA can get the average salary as negotiated and at the same time develope a mechanic pool, that is familiar with AA's way of
doing business and having required training completed ready to go, represented by the union.

And remember.... the city of Tulsa(and state) really don't care who occupies that facility, so long as it's occupied.
Yes, of course they'd prefer to keep the wages upward, but if the maint base were to be spun off/new tenant and another sign displayed out on Mingo Rd, the city and state would be ok with that-I think.

 

[Buck]

And remember.... the city of Tulsa(and state) really don't care who occupies that facility, so long as it's occupied.
Yes, of course they'd prefer to keep the wages upward, but if the maint base were to be spun off/new tenant and another sign displayed out on Mingo Rd, the city and state would be ok with that-I think.

Agreed, it would matter little to the city who occupies as long as the city tax revenues were not reduce by a large amount. However the higher wage does tend to allow for better personal economic return and therefore, in the end higher tax revenue. More spending higher real state tax rates and so on.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Labor Has a Legitimate Lien on Capital
by Gregg Shotwell
When Steve Miller, the vulture capitalist who drove Delphi into the ditch of America's dreams, declared, "Bankruptcy is a growth industry," he was smiling, but he wasn't joking.

Bankruptcy in the US isn't a sign of economic distress or mismanagement. It's a business plan -- calculated, cunning, and void of redeeming social value. American Airlines is the latest in a long line of financial obscenities that make vulture capitalists salivate.

If we had a president we could believe in, he would not only call out the National Guard to protect the constitutional rights of citizens at Occupy protests, he would defend the vested benefits earned by workers with the full moral and institutional authority of his office. It won't happen.

We must cease and desist from unrealistic expectations and mount our own counteroffensive. US courts routinely aid and abet the extortion of workers and the plunder of pension plans. Capitalism isn't above the law in the United States, it is the law. Peace and solidarity activists are hounded, harassed, and arrested but the forcible transfer of wealth from the working class to the investing class is protected concerted activity.

American Airlines' debt doesn't outweigh its cash and assets. In fact, American Airlines is financing its own bankruptcy. That's not distress, it's brass-knuckle union-busting. The business press makes no bones about American Airlines' plan to profit off the broken backs of labor contracts. In fact, they crow about it. American Airlines ordered 460 new planes from Boeing and Airbus less than five months ago at a cost of $38 billion. Those contracts will be honored even as American Airlines plans to dump pensions underfunded by about $10 billion for approximately 130,000 workers and retirees.

American Airlines doesn't pretend to offer a business plan that promises better management. The only benefits American Airlines purports to extract from bankruptcy are pension evasion and concessions from unions facing a court-ordered firing squad.

The crib notes for this business plan read: bankruptcy = profit. The longhand reveals the moral compunction of a crocodile.

The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) estimates that a default at American Airlines could be the largest in US history. The PBGC itself is teetering on the edge of insolvency. In 2004, a report by the Center on Federal Financial Institutions said the PBGC "is insolvent on the basis of Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) and would be shut down if it were a private insurer."

That was before the PBGC absorbed $6.2 billion in pension obligations from Delphi.

US bankruptcy courts protect the assets of US corporations invested outside the United States from creditors. You can bet your mother's paycheck American Airlines' parent company, AMR Corp., has cash and assets stashed in ports all over the world. Labor has a legitimate lien on Capital. A pension isn't a gamble or an investment -- it's earned with hard steadfast work.

A company that cancels its pension obligations should not be permitted to profit from it. The trend toward bankruptcy as a growth industry in the United States is a clear indication that we aren't in a recession. We are experiencing a restructuring at the expense of everyone who works for a living.
."

Bankruptcy at American Airlines shouldn't be allowed to fly.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Shotwell may be contacted at <[email protected]>. See, also, <www.soldiersofsolidarity.com>, <www.factoryrat.com>, and <www.warriorsoflabor.com>.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[FWAAA]

American Airlines' debt doesn't outweigh its cash and assets. In fact, American Airlines is financing its own bankruptcy. That's not distress, it's brass-knuckle union-busting. The business press makes no bones about American Airlines' plan to profit off the broken backs of labor contracts. In fact, they crow about it. American Airlines ordered 460 new planes from Boeing and Airbus less than five months ago at a cost of $38 billion. Those contracts will be honored even as American Airlines plans to dump pensions underfunded by about $10 billion for approximately 130,000 workers and retirees.

Mr Shotwell should become acquainted with basic accounting principles, so he wouldn't publish incorrect info like the bolded portion above. He appears to share the same lack of familiarity with financial statements as many people who post here. Rock Salomon of the fringe anti-APFA group made the same mistake.

AMR's assets include its $4 billion of cash; AMR's approximately $29 billion of debt, liabilities and other obligations exceeds its assets by about $5 billion. It's available for all to review in various sources, including the most recent 10-Q.

 

[Bob Owens]

Mr Shotwell should become acquainted with basic accounting principles, so he wouldn't publish incorrect info like the bolded portion above. He appears to share the same lack of familiarity with financial statements as many people who post here. Rock Salomon of the fringe anti-APFA group made the same mistake.

AMR's assets include its $4 billion of cash; AMR's approximately $29 billion of debt, liabilities and other obligations exceeds its assets by about $5 billion. It's available for all to review in various sources, including the most recent 10-Q.

Who really cares? Is it unusual for a 75 year old company that enters into a lot of long term leases (because most of the facilities that they operate out of are not for sale) to have more liabilities than assetts? Isnt cash flow more critical and the ability to service debt more important than the figure or ratio of assetts to liabilities?

If anything if we were to apply the same principles to people then AA would be looking healthier than any of us.

When I bought my home for $150,000 I borrowed $100,000, the terms were to pay it back over 30 years and my total payments would have been over $260,000. So when I bought my home I had an assett worth $150,000 but I my liability was $260,000. Sure I could pay it off sooner and reduce my liability but so can AA. Unlike AA I am not immortal and need to reduce debts and build assetts in order to retire.

I'm 50 years old, I'm likely to live another 29 years. My property taxes which really is simply rent paid to the government to live in my own house are currently $11,000 and triple every 20 years, so my liability for property taxes alone is $812,000.

I have three kids, the cost to put them through college (training costs) is around $240,000.

Then I have to maintain a the place I live and feed myself, (maintenanace) say $30,000 per year, $870,000


Needless to say my liabilities I passed my assetts on the first item.

I wonder, how much of that $29 billion is AAdvantage miles and leases on stuff they dont use?

 

[Overspeed]

Who really cares? Is it unusual for a 75 year old company that enters into a lot of long term leases (because most of the facilities that they operate out of are not for sale) to have more liabilities than assetts? Isnt cash flow more critical and the ability to service debt more important than the figure or ratio of assetts to liabilities?

If anything if we were to apply the same principles to people then AA would be looking healthier than any of us.

When I bought my home for $150,000 I borrowed $100,000, the terms were to pay it back over 30 years and my total payments would have been over $260,000. So when I bought my home I had an assett worth $150,000 but I my liability was $260,000. Sure I could pay it off sooner and reduce my liability but so can AA. Unlike AA I am not immortal and need to reduce debts and build assetts in order to retire.

I'm 50 years old, I'm likely to live another 29 years. My property taxes which really is simply rent paid to the government to live in my own house are currently $11,000 and triple every 20 years, so my liability for property taxes alone is $812,000.

I have three kids, the cost to put them through college (training costs) is around $240,000.

Then I have to maintain a the place I live and feed myself, (maintenanace) say $30,000 per year, $870,000


Needless to say my liabilities I passed my assetts on the first item.

I wonder, how much of that $29 billion is AAdvantage miles and leases on stuff they dont use?

Wow. No wonder AMR outplayed you.

Your house appreciated in value did it not? So your house is an appreciating asset and therefore if you were to sell it today it would be worth more than you paid or owed. So your assets exceed your housing liability. In AMR's case all the aircraft AA owns (assets) are depreciating over 20 years to the point once their usable life has been consumed they cannot be mortgaged at 10 times their purchased price after 20 years can they? Part of the reason why DC10s are in the desert and we don't fly them.

Property taxes pay for services that you use, fire department, police, sewers, sidewalks, schools, etc... Property tax is "rent"? What? Are you for real? Also, your property tax is used to lower your taxable income for tax purposes. It helps, not hurts you.

Training costs are assumed either to cover a requirement (e.g. HAZWOPER) or to improve your employees' value. If you call your kids college training costs then the assumption is that they will get better jobs than had they not gone to college. So that would not be a liability since it is not a debt you have yet to pay unless it's a loan. If that's the case it is against a future enhancement to your kid's future value in the job market. Of course sending kids to college is not a simple cost and benefit analysis. I did not ask my kid to present a business case as to why they should go to college and why I should give them the money.

Maintenance on your house is a necessary expense that you must incur to maintain the value of your appreciating asset (i.e. your house). Food on you however is to maintain the Owens revenue machine (i.e. your the plane that makes money but you must feed and maintain it to make money). You could ground Bob Owens after maintenance costs become higher and buy a new Bob Owens NG which will have lower maintenance costs.

So the first item did not exceed your liabilities did not exceed your assets. To the contrary that was the best decision you made however it sounds like you did not understand it then or now. You spend too much time making extremely implausible arguments that will not get us a contract or improve our position in BK.

You got what you were told would happen time and time again. BK which would result in ending our pensions, raising our healthcare costs, outsourced jobs, and closed line maintenance stations. Keep spinning and misdirecting. The bottom line is the union negotiating committees gambled and got served.

 

[Hopeful]

You got what you were told would happen time and time again. BK which would result in ending our pensions, raising our healthcare costs, outsourced jobs, and closed line maintenance stations. Keep spinning and misdirecting. The bottom line is the union negotiating committees gambled and got served.

I have to agree with this one.....Whatever anyone believes about the filing, whether or not it was truly necessary, or the company is just breaking the union, whatever..........The reality is that THEY FILED......and the workers are going to pay a price for it.

But don't worry boys and girls,,,the company's bluffing.........
Tell me about the bluff in a month or two when your contract is rewritten and possibly your paycheck is lightened...


this will all be more palatable when I see every level of manager take big hits in reductions..After all, if the conventional wisdom is that thousands upon thousands of jobs will be elimintated, only fair that managements numbers be reduced as well.

 

[Birdman]

You got what you were told would happen time and time again. BK which would result in ending our pensions, raising our healthcare costs, outsourced jobs, and closed line maintenance stations. Keep spinning and misdirecting. The bottom line is the union negotiating committees gambled and got served.

We don't all cower in your dystopian society, mindlessly following the edicts of the internAAtional nor do many of us consider Bob Owens as being even remotely responsible for the BK filing. What you and other hindsight antagonists refuse to accept is the fact that everything we would have gained monetarily by the ratification of the "concessionary" contract could now be lost in less time than we lost the 2001 gains. Do the math, the $20,000+ gains in the 2001-02 time span were erased in 2003-04 and you can multiply that times 4.x to date. So in reality the compAAny loaned us $20,000, took it back and let us keep any investment interest. There are no bonafide guarantee's that what we contractually gain will last but you can rest assured that no one will have to "fight like hell" to preserve the internAAtional's paychecks.

A dystopia is the idea of a society in a repressive and controlled state, often under the guise of being utopian, as characterized in books like Brave New World and Nineteen Eighty-Four. Dystopian societies feature different kinds of repressive social control systems, various forms of active and passive coercion. Ideas and works about dystopian societies often explore the concept of humans abusing technology and humans individually and collectively coping, or not being able to properly cope with technology that has progressed far more rapidly than humanity's spiritual evolution. Dystopian societies are often imagined as police states, with unlimited power over the citizens.

 

[Buck]

Leave it to Birdman to force me to use the dictionary again------> dystopian

 

[Birdman]

Leave it to Birdman to force me to use the dictionary again------> dystopian

You have something else to do?

 

[FWAAA]

Who really cares? Is it unusual for a 75 year old company that enters into a lot of long term leases (because most of the facilities that they operate out of are not for sale) to have more liabilities than assetts? Isnt cash flow more critical and the ability to service debt more important than the figure or ratio of assetts to liabilities?

Who really cares? Looks like your colleague Chuck does, otherwise he wouldn't have gone to the trouble to cut and paste Mr Shotwell's incorrect rantings and Chuck wouldn't have bolded the portion containing the allegation that "cash" is not part of "assets."

Is it unusul? No, not for a company staring bankruptcy in the face. Yes, cash flow is critical, but AA's cash flow is not sufficient to service the debt and pay all the bills. That's why the company has continuously borrowed since 2003 and has sold additional stock since 2003 and has sold off non-core assets since 2003 - all in an attempt to raise cash.

If anything if we were to apply the same principles to people then AA would be looking healthier than any of us.

When I bought my home for $150,000 I borrowed $100,000, the terms were to pay it back over 30 years and my total payments would have been over $260,000. So when I bought my home I had an assett worth $150,000 but I my liability was $260,000. Sure I could pay it off sooner and reduce my liability but so can AA. Unlike AA I am not immortal and need to reduce debts and build assetts in order to retire.

You have the same deficiencies as Mr Shotwell when it comes to balance sheets. If you bought a house for $150k and borrowed $100k, then your net worth is $50k (asset of $150k less the debt of $100k = $50k net worth). The total of your payments is $260 but that does not define your debt. The liability side of AMR's balance sheet does not include the total payments due on its debt - only the payoff balances, like the $100k debt on your house.

I'm 50 years old, I'm likely to live another 29 years. My property taxes which really is simply rent paid to the government to live in my own house are currently $11,000 and triple every 20 years, so my liability for property taxes alone is $812,000.

Each year, your property taxes become a liability for that year, but you do not have a current liability of $812k, just the current $11k.

I have three kids, the cost to put them through college (training costs) is around $240,000.

Then I have to maintain a the place I live and feed myself, (maintenanace) say $30,000 per year, $870,000

Those are anticipated lifetime expenditures, not liabilities or debt. Using your logic, AA has a fuel liability (using 2011 prices) of $240 billion over the next 29 years. And a wage liability (since the employees have contracts) of about $200 billion over the next 29 years.

A balance sheet is a snapshot of what a company has right now (assets) and what it owes (liabilities). A healthy company has more of the first than the second, so if it were liquidated, there would be money left over (like for the stockholders). AMR (including its $4 billion cash) owes at least $5 billion more than it has.

I wonder, how much of that $29 billion is AAdvantage miles and leases on stuff they dont use?

Don't know how much represents debt for stuff they don't use, but the AAdvantage liability is approximately $300 million for award flights from issued miles and another $1.1 billion or so represents deferred revenue for miles sold to partners. When AA sells miles to Citi or Hilton or Avis, it does not put all the money into revenue when the miles are sold. Some is recognized immediately but the rest is recognized over 28 months. The cash from mileage sales is placed in cash and the deferred revenue (28 month recongnition) is a liability until that revenue is recognized.

 

[TWU informer]

That was Scathing

 

[Chuck Schalk]

maintenance executive retiring

By D.R. STEWART World Staff Writer
Published: 12/6/2011 7:19 PM
Last Modified: 12/6/2011 7:19 PM


A week after filing a Chapter 11 bankruptcy petition, executives at AMR Corp., the parent of American Airlines, said key senior leaders of the company — including a strong advocate for the airline’s in-house maintenance operations — are retiring.
AMR CEO Thomas Horton said Robert W. Reding, American’s executive vice president of operations, and Mark L. Burdette, vice president of employee relations, will retire Dec. 31.

Monte Ford, senior vice president and chief information officer, has resigned, effective Dec. 31, Horton said.

In addition, Beverly Goulet, American’s vice president of corporate development and treasurer, has been named chief restructuring officer, Horton said.

“We are fortunate to have so many talented leaders to fill some big shoes during a very critical time,” Horton said. “The changes we’re announcing today will ensure continuity in each role, while enabling us to broaden our team’s experience and capabilities — something that will be important as we lead American through the restructuring and reaffirm its position of leadership in the global airline industry.”

Reding, a 40-year veteran of the airline industry, will retire at the end of the year after 12 years with American.

Reding’s role will not be filled, Horton said, but some of his responsibilities will be assumed by James B. Ream, who has been named senior vice president of operations. With Reding’s retirement, Ream will assume responsibility for flight operations, operations planning & performance, operations finance & planning and the safety, security and environmental departments, in addition to his duties overseeing the airline’s maintenance & engineering operations, Horton said.

Reding served in a variety of management positions with American and American Eagle Airlines, its regional airline affiliate. Prior to moving to American, he was CEO of Canadian Regional Airlines and Reno Air, which merged with American in 1999.

Reding was an advocate for American’s maintenance bases during the last 10 years when many other U.S. airlines were outsourcing their heavy maintenance to U.S. and foreign maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) providers.

American’s Maintenance & Engineering Center in Tulsa employs 6,000 aircraft mechanics and is the largest non-government MRO in the world.

Don Videtich, international representative of the Transport Workers Union, which represents American’s mechanics and related work groups, said Reding has been supportive of American’s maintenance operations and the value of keeping the work in house and in the United States.

But Ream also has supported the company’s in-house MRO operations, Videtich said.

“Our experience with him (Ream) is not that much different than Bob Reding,” Videtich said. “I would liken this to Mr. Horton establishing around himself a team of guys who are going to take the company in a certain direction. In Continental’s bankruptcy, they put a team of 20 new executives together.

“They’re doing leadership changes simultaneously with the bankruptcy. It remains to be seen what it all means.”

Michael Boyd, president of the Boyd Group International, said the retirements of Reding and Burdette may simply mean their long service in the airline industry have earned them retirement pay and benefits too good to turn down.

“I think it’s a $1.8 million lump sum retirement (bonus) alone (for Reding),” Boyd said. “Reding’s been in the business for 30 or 40 years. I wouldn’t read too much into that (retirement).” Boyd said AMR executives will be cutting near-term costs but incurring long-term expenses and problems if they elect to downsize the company’s in-house maintenance capabilities in favor of outsourcing.

“I don’t believe it (maintenance) can be done any cheaper at an airline like American,” Boyd said. “You already have the expertise and the team in place — and they want to fix airplanes.

“Maintenance is not the problem: It has to do with debt and pensions. Period.”

In its bankruptcy filing, AMR listed assets of $24.72 billion and liabilities of $29.55 billion.

AMR has $4.1 billion in cash and short-term investments and more than $12 billion in long-term debt, company documents show.

AMR shares closed Tuesday at 70 cents, up 28 cents or 67 percent. More than 175.5 million shares were traded, more than eight times its average daily volume of 19.3 million shares.



By D.R. STEWART World Staff Writer

Copyright 2011 World Publishing Co. All rights reserved. This material