TWU negotiations.........what?

[FWAAA]

There seems to be some contradiction in these statements. Why would BK change the fact that "There is no analysis that suggests that selling off M&E would save us money"? All those proclaiming O/H is toast by looking at the past practice of airline BK's ignore the fact that there is no longer a glut of skilled labor and excess MRO capacity. There is still an immediate need for AA to keep maintenance in tact for not only the expiring yield on their 737's and 757's, but the vast lease return maintenance that must be performed. Remember, they did not predict getting a grip on yield until the middle of next year. The fact is, the more confusion there is in the rank and file members, the easier it will be to manipulate us into an untenable position.

I'm confused about this part. I expect AA to reject the leases on every MD-80 and perhaps some of the leased 757s, which would free AA of any obligation to do anything to the airplanes (including maintenance) other than make them available for the lessors to pick up. When AA rejects the lease, it rejects all the obligations in that contract, including any required maintenance prior to return to the lessor. That's one of the benefits of bankruptcy - it allows you to walk away from your contractual promises. Only in cases where AA wants to keep flying the plane (probably at much reduced lease rates) will AA be obligated to perform maintenance.

Of course, it's possible that some lessors may want AA to perform various maintenance on the rejected aircraft, but that will be subject to negotiation and payment by the lessors to AA just like any other third party insourced maintenance activity.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Yep - the "workers" at the international HQ.

FUGM.

 

[Goey]

In regard to the stAAll tactics Bob has shared, I too think the compAAny has been pondering this move for some time. Why would they wastefully disperse millions of $$'s in lump sums to the major TWU work groups before they reached an agreement with the pilots if they weren't considering a BK filing if those talks failed? That's not exactly negotiating in good faith. Also, the mediators self withdrawal raised very high suspicion.




There seems to be some contradiction in these statements. Why would BK change the fact that "There is no analysis that suggests that selling off M&E would save us money"? All those proclaiming O/H is toast by looking at the past practice of airline BK's ignore the fact that there is no longer a glut of skilled labor and excess MRO capacity. There is still an immediate need for AA to keep maintenance in tact for not only the expiring yield on their 737's and 757's, but the vast lease return maintenance that must be performed. Remember, they did not predict getting a grip on yield until the middle of next year. The fact is, the more confusion there is in the rank and file members, the easier it will be to manipulate us into an untenable position.

Birdman
While I believe you are correct that there may not be enough capacity at existing MRO's but if AA were to sell or spin of OH and commit to the new operator there business that would be motivation for someone coming in to a turnkey operation. Now consider the TWU would make a deal to represent OH in this scenario they would not care what OH would make as long as they have dues payers. We have all heard Horton does not like maint. and OH even less so hold on its going to get interesting. So when people state T-town is cheap to operate while that may be true AA has not given us the cost out compared to other MRO'S. So what does AA gain by dumping OH well it's all about liabilities, while T-town may be cheaper produce a better product none of this matters to the numbers guys and Wall Street, so AA gets rid of payroll, pensions, health benefits which looks good on the books. Then you also have to take into account then AA can then right off the MRO cost as a business expense and no longer a liability. Some other things to consider a fairly firm rumor has surfaced that the lease deals with the 737 or AB or both are on a 4 1/2 years lease and supposedly at the end of the lease AA returns the a/c and gets a new one or the lessor does the OH and rolls the cost into the new lease. Good business move but decreases the need for AA OH. Now we all have heard Lufthansa and Boeing have toured T-town this past year we'll see if any of this becomes reality, as I said hold on its not going to be fun.
Goey

 

[Birdman]

I'm confused about this part. I expect AA to reject the leases on every MD-80 and perhaps some of the leased 757s, which would free AA of any obligation to do anything to the airplanes (including maintenance) other than make them available for the lessors to pick up. When AA rejects the lease, it rejects all the obligations in that contract, including any required maintenance prior to return to the lessor. That's one of the benefits of bankruptcy - it allows you to walk away from your contractual promises. Only in cases where AA wants to keep flying the plane (probably at much reduced lease rates) will AA be obligated to perform maintenance.

Of course, it's possible that some lessors may want AA to perform various maintenance on the rejected aircraft, but that will be subject to negotiation and payment by the lessors to AA just like any other third party insourced maintenance activity.

You have a valid point. I assume there will be intense negotiations in regard to return condition of these a/c and considering AA is the industry standard on turn times and quality on the MD-80, we would naturally be the best candidate. It may also be that these planes are worthless and not worthy of spending a dime on which will put many in Tulsa at risk.

 

[odie01]

http://podcast.1170kfaq.com/DesktopModules/Orizonti_NukeNews/getLink.aspx?pid=48&tid=1852&newsid=61021




TWU TOPIC ON Counter clock listen from 18:55-21:53



Pat Campbell talk show in Tulsa, OK has asked TWU Local 514 Leadership to come on his show to state (our) Union employees case on "labor costs being to high at American Airlines"


RESULT: 514 wont go on and state our case or answer questions.


Local 514 Leadership has had enough time to have a plan and be prepared to answer questions on Mechanics and Related's stance/case on Labor Costs. 514 is UNPROFESSIONAL as usual, they cant even represent our best interests on a radio show.


http://podcast.1170kfaq.com/DesktopModules/Orizonti_NukeNews/getLink.aspx?pid=48&tid=1852&newsid=61021

 

[Bob Owens]

I'm confused about this part. I expect AA to reject the leases on every MD-80 and perhaps some of the leased 757s, which would free AA of any obligation to do anything to the airplanes (including maintenance) other than make them available for the lessors to pick up. When AA rejects the lease, it rejects all the obligations in that contract, including any required maintenance prior to return to the lessor. That's one of the benefits of bankruptcy - it allows you to walk away from your contractual promises. Only in cases where AA wants to keep flying the plane (probably at much reduced lease rates) will AA be obligated to perform maintenance.

Of course, it's possible that some lessors may want AA to perform various maintenance on the rejected aircraft, but that will be subject to negotiation and payment by the lessors to AA just like any other third party insourced maintenance activity.

Does Boeing have a secret parking lot full of airplanes ready to be rolled off the lot? Whereas cars are built then sold airplanes are sold then built. AA is not Boeings sole customer so even if AA sheds the leases in BK they will need to hold onto the MD80 s and the owners will not let AA dump them back in junk condition, so until the new planes come the planes will be maintained. Boeing is no doubt gearing up, they just TA d a four year extension on their contract with the IAM with 8% increase and a $5000 signing bonus.Their ramp up will put more of a strain on the supply of mechanics. We may see mechanics quit the airlines and go to Boeing with their superior pay and benefits.

While I'm in general agreement that the new aircraft will be less labor intensive I think that the pace at which old aircraft are replaced by new ones will not be as fast as the rate at which mechanics leave the industry. So while the number of mechanics needed per aircraft will decline I believe that he number of mechanics available will decline even faster.

 

[Overspeed]

Does Boeing have a secret parking lot full of airplanes ready to be rolled off the lot? Whereas cars are built then sold airplanes are sold then built. AA is not Boeings sole customer so even if AA sheds the leases in BK they will need to hold onto the MD80 s and the owners will not let AA dump them back in junk condition, so until the new planes come the planes will be maintained. Boeing is no doubt gearing up, they just TA d a four year extension on their contract with the IAM with 8% increase and a $5000 signing bonus.Their ramp up will put more of a strain on the supply of mechanics. We may see mechanics quit the airlines and go to Boeing with their superior pay and benefits.

While I'm in general agreement that the new aircraft will be less labor intensive I think that the pace at which old aircraft are replaced by new ones will not be as fast as the rate at which mechanics leave the industry. So while the number of mechanics needed per aircraft will decline I believe that he number of mechanics available will decline even faster.

Just like you believed AMR was bluffing about BK? Yeah, your credible.

 

[FWAAA]

Does Boeing have a secret parking lot full of airplanes ready to be rolled off the lot? Whereas cars are built then sold airplanes are sold then built. AA is not Boeings sole customer so even if AA sheds the leases in BK they will need to hold onto the MD80 s and the owners will not let AA dump them back in junk condition, so until the new planes come the planes will be maintained. Boeing is no doubt gearing up, they just TA d a four year extension on their contract with the IAM with 8% increase and a $5000 signing bonus.Their ramp up will put more of a strain on the supply of mechanics. We may see mechanics quit the airlines and go to Boeing with their superior pay and benefits.

While I am not cheerleading for AA to ground 150-200 airplanes in the near-term, I would not be surprised to see dozens of MD-80s parked. Once the holidays are over, the slow winter season could see AA get substantially smaller. Sure, AA might be able to renegotiate the leases (since there's no market for MD-80s right now) but Horton's plans may include grounding them even if they're rent-free, as they still burn large quantities of fuel. Guess it depends on how large the temporary wage concessions are. If AA can trim wage expenses by $100 million to $150 million a month, that will help buy fuel to keep them in the air.

While I'm in general agreement that the new aircraft will be less labor intensive I think that the pace at which old aircraft are replaced by new ones will not be as fast as the rate at which mechanics leave the industry. So while the number of mechanics needed per aircraft will decline I believe that he number of mechanics available will decline even faster.

If you're right about that, then that argues in favor of grounding more MD-80s so the dwindling supply of AA mechanics can focus on keeping the 738s, 757s (the ones AA isn't getting rid of), 763s and 777s in the air.

 

[tech2101]

Does Boeing have a secret parking lot full of airplanes ready to be rolled off the lot? Whereas cars are built then sold airplanes are sold then built. AA is not Boeings sole customer so even if AA sheds the leases in BK they will need to hold onto the MD80 s and the owners will not let AA dump them back in junk condition, so until the new planes come the planes will be maintained. Boeing is no doubt gearing up, they just TA d a four year extension on their contract with the IAM with 8% increase and a $5000 signing bonus.Their ramp up will put more of a strain on the supply of mechanics. We may see mechanics quit the airlines and go to Boeing with their superior pay and benefits.

While I'm in general agreement that the new aircraft will be less labor intensive I think that the pace at which old aircraft are replaced by new ones will not be as fast as the rate at which mechanics leave the industry. So while the number of mechanics needed per aircraft will decline I believe that he number of mechanics available will decline even faster.

Wow.

There is much you do not understand about the process your company has entered.

You are not doing your constituents any favors. You really need to listen to some of these people who have been there, done that. There are also good financial minds on this board that you choose to ignore... at you and your member's peril.

I wish you all the best.

 

[Overspeed]

Wow.

There is much you do not understand about the process your company has entered.

You are not doing your constituents any favors. You really need to listen to some of these people who have been there, done that. There are also good financial minds on this board that you choose to ignore... at you and your member's peril.

I wish you all the best.

That is damn good advice!

 

[Mr Red]

Just like you believed AMR was bluffing about BK? Yeah, your credible.

I think you need to get it right, Bob like the rest of us said STOP BLUFFING AND FILE !!!!The threats are OVER, move on !
Stop being a waste of air!

 

[Bob Owens]

Just like you believed AMR was bluffing about BK? Yeah, your credible.

Credibility relates to honesty, funny how you fail to see the hypocrisy of your statement when it comes from behind an alias. Pathetic.

 

[odie01]

Just got this email

TWU line stations hired their own HIGH PROFILE attorney to oversee AA & International during BK restructuring negotiations. More info to follow.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Just got this email

TWU line stations hired their own HIGH PROFILE attorney to oversee AA & International during BK restructuring negotiations. More info to follow.

If this is true, then I must thank them for stepping up and doing the right thing. No way that i can trust the international to act alone. I do hope that my local is getting in on this.

 

[Hopeful]

Just got this email

TWU line stations hired their own HIGH PROFILE attorney to oversee AA & International during BK restructuring negotiations. More info to follow.

I have news for you...The TWU OWNS the contract.....The locals as well as the negotiating committee will be told to sit in the corner with their lawyers and not to speak until spoken to. The TWU is the one that will have the day in court, NOT the locals...NOT their lawyers....They may, as you said, "OVERSEE" the process, but that's it...

Little and company have now taken control of the process as well as negotiations......From my source, who happens to be one of the TWU elite making well over $160,000 a year, that this is the way it will go and Little and Drummond have had enough of Owens and his supporters on the negotationg committee.

The TWU is still the bargaining agent for ALL represented employees....Not one for OH and one for the line.