TWU negotiations.........what?

[FrequentFlierCA]

And remember their "bankruptcy proof" retirements, Carty set up, are still in place!

While that's great for senior management, what are you guys going to do if and when AMR goes Chapter 11? I hate to even think about this, but the company could hand your retirement off to the PBGC just like the airlines who went through the courts before you. That's why I don't understand the borderline kamikaze rhetoric on this board with regard to sticking it to the company. If you push too hard then, in the end, you'll just be sticking it to yourselves.

 

[TWU informer]

While that's great for senior management, what are you guys going to do if and when AMR goes Chapter 11? I hate to even think about this, but the company could hand your retirement off to the PBGC just like the airlines who went through the courts before you. That's why I don't understand the borderline kamikaze rhetoric on this board with regard to sticking it to the company. If you push too hard then, in the end, you'll just be sticking it to yourselves.

What do you suggest?

We accept BBQ Sandwhiched and small bonus awards while we have no idea what work rule changes the company is seeking? Continue to watch management admit they cannot mange the airline without a union business partner to make decisions, while they receive huge bonus awards regardless of profits?

Might sound crazy to you but I would trust my pension to the PGBC long before I would trust the TWU with my retirement medical.

Exactly what have you sacrificed for the last 5+ years? Nothing? So what do you know about what we are goign through anyhow?

Or are you just another employee of the hired outside firm to propagate fear and company positions on the internet blogs and bulletin boards?

You can blame those of us that are disgruntled all you want, but the truth is the direction Arpey and the BOD's is steering the ship is what has created all the anger to begin with. It wont be the Mechanic and Related group that completes a scorched earth policy because Jim Little will eventually come through for the company. It is the Pilot group that will scorch the grass until bare earth is exposed.

 

[local 12 proud]

While that's great for senior management, what are you guys going to do if and when AMR goes Chapter 11?

Whats to say a bankruptcy isn't forthcoming already?

I hate to even think about this, but the company could hand your retirement off to the PBGC just like the airlines who went through the courts before you. That's why I don't understand the borderline kamikaze rhetoric on this board with regard to sticking it to the company. If you push too hard then, in the end, you'll just be sticking it to yourselves.

You got it all wrong FF, "The CompAAny" is the one doing the sticking (f..king) its employees.

Live to fight another day is old and worn out, let the chips fall!

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

What do you suggest?

We accept BBQ Sandwhiched and small bonus awards while we have no idea what work rule changes the company is seeking?

Might sound crazy to you but I would trust my pension to the PGBC long before I would trust the TWU with my retirement medical.

Exactly what have you sacrificed for the last 5+ years? Nothing? So what do you know about what we are goign through anyhow?

Or are you just another employee of the hired outside firm to propagate fear and company positions on the internet blogs and bulletin boards?

First of all, I think the personal attacks are unwarranted. You don't know anything about what I've sacrificed in my life. I lost my job just before 9/11 and spent the six months after that on unemployment, so I know a little about lean times. And as I've said in previous posts, I'm a customer of American Airlines, so you can save your conspiracy theories for the new X Files movie.

What I'm advocating is that you have a serious look at the realities of your situation. They suck. The triple whammy of oil, a weak economy and competition from better-positioned airlines (mainly WN) means that now is just about the worst possible time to be negotiating a new contract. In the end each of you will have to make a judgment call. The bonus awards are something - surely not what you deserve - but if you push too hard you'll get less than nothing when the court guts your contract.

 

[TWU informer]

First of all, I think the personal attacks are unwarranted. You don't know anything about what I've sacrificed in my life. I lost my job just before 9/11 and spent the six months after that on unemployment, so I know a little about lean times. And as I've said in previous posts, I'm a customer of American Airlines, so you can save your conspiracy theories for the new X Files movie.

What I'm advocating is that you have a serious look at the realities of your situation. They suck. The triple whammy of oil, a weak economy and competition from better-positioned airlines (mainly WN) means that now is just about the worst possible time to be negotiating a new contract. In the end each of you will have to make a judgment call. The bonus awards are something - surely not what you deserve - but if you push too hard you'll get less than nothing when the court guts your contract.

A Customer of American Airlines that knows a little about lean times, has absolutely zero credibility with regard to our internal problems and/or labor negotiations.

Again you spew the fear of courts. After the SERP, and the long lasting management bonus award program that has yet to be modified, I will no longer llisten to, believe, or respond to management fear tactics. Go back and tell whoever sent you here to get the lawyers ready.

 

[MCI transplant]

While that's great for senior management, what are you guys going to do if and when AMR goes Chapter 11? I hate to even think about this, but the company could hand your retirement off to the PBGC just like the airlines who went through the courts before you. That's why I don't understand the borderline kamikaze rhetoric on this board with regard to sticking it to the company. If you push too hard then, in the end, you'll just be sticking it to yourselves.

<_< ----- Sorry Freq.! But if anyone knows anything about bankruptcy's, we do! Us redheaded stepchildren (exTWAer's) have been through two of them, and have at least one retirement coming from the PBGC. But like he man says! These are new times, with new bankruptcy laws!! The head of the PBGC has stated he would sue the next @#$% Airline that tryed to dump it's retirement on them! And frankly I don't believe AA wants to go there! Oh, they'll threaten! And if they did, I believe that would be the event to trigger another form of Re-regulation in this Industry! The Airline Industry is vital to this countries economy! And today it's also in the self destruct mode! With the price of Fuel going nowhere but up, this Industry, in it's present form, can not survive! Now that's reality! Even today Congress is debating the reorganization of the FAA. Having the nations largest Airline go into Chapter.11, just might do it! And "maybe" if, and when they did, there would be a "more Labor friendly" President in office!!? --------- So there is more to look at than just a blanket threat here! But one thing is for curtain! If congress does re-regulate, it would mean higher fares for the general public!!!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

While that's great for senior management, what are you guys going to do if and when AMR goes Chapter 11? I hate to even think about this, but the company could hand your retirement off to the PBGC just like the airlines who went through the courts before you. That's why I don't understand the borderline kamikaze rhetoric on this board with regard to sticking it to the company. If you push too hard then, in the end, you'll just be sticking it to yourselves.

FF,

AMR goes into Chapter 11? Why? They have the twu to get leading concessions... again! The company is trying to get the twu to handle our retirement. That way when they go into BK they will not have that hurdle as far as AMTs go.

Push hard you say? Sticking it to ourselves? Listen, and PLEASE listen closely... The company AND union already stuck it to labor five years ago. There has ALWAYS been a reason not to increase pay & benefits. The time has come to pay the Piper. The union has run out of tricks to fool the membership about the company blah, blah, blah. The company will always cry poor come contract time. Morale is in the BOTTOM of the crapper and frankly, we are fed up. As a FF if you don't want to pay higher fares to cover the cost of fuel then drive.

I refuse to subsidize cheap air fare! :angry:

 

[MCI transplant]

FF,

AMR goes into Chapter 11? Why? They have the twu to get leading concessions... again! The company is trying to get the twu to handle our retirement. That way when they go into BK they will not have that hurdle as far as AMTs go.

Push hard you say? Sticking it to ourselves? Listen, and PLEASE listen closely... The company AND union already stuck it to labor five years ago. There has ALWAYS been a reason not to increase pay & benefits. The time has come to pay the Piper. The union has run out of tricks to fool the membership about the company blah, blah, blah. The company will always cry poor come contract time. Morale is in the BOTTOM of the crapper and frankly, we are fed up. As a FF if you don't want to pay higher fares to cover the cost of fuel then drive.

I refuse to subsidize cheap air fare! :angry:

:angry: ------ AMEN!!!!

 

[frontline]

FF,

AMR goes into Chapter 11? Why? They have the twu to get leading concessions... again! The company is trying to get the twu to handle our retirement. That way when they go into BK they will not have that hurdle as far as AMTs go.

Push hard you say? Sticking it to ourselves? Listen, and PLEASE listen closely... The company AND union already stuck it to labor five years ago. There has ALWAYS been a reason not to increase pay & benefits. The time has come to pay the Piper. The union has run out of tricks to fool the membership about the company blah, blah, blah. The company will always cry poor come contract time. Morale is in the BOTTOM of the crapper and frankly, we are fed up. As a FF if you don't want to pay higher fares to cover the cost of fuel then drive.

I refuse to subsidize cheap air fare! :angry:

I'm sorry but this is just a stupid argument that totally ignores what's happening in the real world. First, we don't have any control over airfare. It's a competitive thing and - even though this sucks for the company - AA can't raise it enough to cover costs.

I want my big payout as much as any of you, but I'm sure as hell not going to commit career suicide to get it. Did we get it "stuck" to us five years ago? Maybe, but we agreed to it. And maybe there always is a reason not to pay up to us working folk, but it's not like the company is turning big (or any) profits at the moment. Can't give what they don't have.

 

[FWAAA]

I refuse to subsidize cheap air fare! :angry:

More big talk.

Sure you refuse. Right, we believe you. You've spent your entire career subsidizing cheap tickets. You've subsidized cheap tickets with your substandard wages since your first day at AA. You've subsidized cheap tickets for about 1,200 work days since the concessions were imposed on you in 2003.

And all of a sudden, you're refusing to subsidize cheap tickets. Riiiiiigggghhhht. Sure.

We've heard this claim before. See Boy Who Cried Wolf

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

More big talk.

Sure you refuse. Right, we believe you. You've spent your entire career subsidizing cheap tickets. You've subsidized cheap tickets with your substandard wages since your first day at AA. You've subsidized cheap tickets for about 1,200 work days since the concessions were imposed on you in 2003.

And all of a sudden, you're refusing to subsidize cheap tickets. Riiiiiigggghhhht. Sure.

We've heard this claim before. See Boy Who Cried Wolf

Its going to get worse before it gets any better. It is a shame the flying public will do most of the suffering.
Next time you fly out and encounter a maintenance delay. My suggestion to you is buy a calender watch because the delays will be getting longer and longer.

Your other alternative of course is another carrier.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

Its going to get worse before it gets any better. It is a shame the flying public will do most of the suffering.
Next time you fly out and encounter a maintenance delay. My suggestion to you is buy a calender watch because the delays will be getting longer and longer.

Your other alternative of course is another carrier.

I've never understood how this helps the labor groups. If revenue decreases that will just be another excuse management will give for not being able to give you a raise. Seems self-defeating to me.

 

[TWU informer]

I've never understood how this helps the labor groups. If revenue decreases that will just be another excuse management will give for not being able to give you a raise. Seems self-defeating to me.

What did you sacrifice in the 2003 retructuring agreement?

What is your stake in the outcome of our labor negotiations?

 

[Bob Owens]

While that's great for senior management, what are you guys going to do if and when AMR goes Chapter 11? I hate to even think about this, but the company could hand your retirement off to the PBGC just like the airlines who went through the courts before you. That's why I don't understand the borderline kamikaze rhetoric on this board with regard to sticking it to the company. If you push too hard then, in the end, you'll just be sticking it to yourselves.

Our pensions fall below the max so the impact wouldnt be as severe on us as the pilots. Last year AA put $1200 away for my pension. So in other words they funding my pension primarily with promises since there is no way they are going to be able to turn that $1200 a year into the $3000 a month or so they are promising. We know first hand what AAs "promises" are worth.

The airlines that went through bankruptcy switched to 401K matches, so they may not be getting promised as much but since the money is there they will likely get what they are promised.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

I've never understood how this helps the labor groups. If revenue decreases that will just be another excuse management will give for not being able to give you a raise. Seems self-defeating to me.

We havent had a raise for 6 years.
All I ever hear are excuses.
"Self defeating"
If thats what you want to call it
I prefer "i dont give a rats arse"
Now that sounds a lot better than "self defeating"