TWU negotiations.........what?

[strikeforce]

FWAAA, you seem like a fairly knowledgeable guy, but I disagree with a previous statement referencing the starting wage for mechs as (41k as "not terrible"...
I think it's an outrage that the Co wants experienced mechs and only pays 20/hr. A. a/p sch grad is worth more than that. I'm not going to beat it to death, but I do believe WN starts there mechs out at around 27/hr-which is more like it. And I would add a 36 mo step pay progression for top out. The mech brings exp-pay the man!
This is just one area I see the union has failed the aircraft tech miserably...

The unions have destroyed the AMT profession.....they don't represent OUR best interest, otherwise WE wouldn't be in this quagmire! It's about saving dues....and, the union will BRAG about how many jobs they saved although wages go down and the out of pocket expenses go up. So, who's side are they really on????? When is our membership going to wake up to the fact that the TWU INTL isn't interested in enhancing the AMT's lifestyle....only theirs!

 

[FWAAA]

FWAAA, you seem like a fairly knowledgeable guy, but I disagree with a previous statement referencing the starting wage for mechs as (41k as "not terrible"...
I think it's an outrage that the Co wants experienced mechs and only pays 20/hr. A. a/p sch grad is worth more than that. I'm not going to beat it to death, but I do believe WN starts there mechs out at around 27/hr-which is more like it. And I would add a 36 mo step pay progression for top out. The mech brings exp-pay the man!
This is just one area I see the union has failed the aircraft tech miserably...

Fair points. I don't think that $41k starting pay is terrible for a job that tops out at $69k, but it would be far too low for one that tops out at $100k. And I agree that a shorter progression to top out makes sense unless someone gets substantially faster as they get older or they get a lot more knowledgable as they get older. $30/hr sounds fair if the top pay is $50/hr as long as it doesn't take too long to get there.

 

[787nightmare]

Fair points. I don't think that $41k starting pay is terrible for a job that tops out at $69k, but it would be far too low for one that tops out at $100k. And I agree that a shorter progression to top out makes sense unless someone gets substantially faster as they get older or they get a lot more knowledgable as they get older. $30/hr sounds fair if the top pay is $50/hr as long as it doesn't take too long to get there.

Well thanks...
Actually a guy does get better with more experience-as you can imagine-but the catch is, over the years as you age, you start to slow down. The joints (wrists,knees,back,hips)start to ache. But there's no replacement for experience. Twu just let's mgt exploit there weakness.

Btw, I "Like" your wage figures...anyway to sell AA mgt on that?

 

[FWAAA]

Well thanks...
Actually a guy does get better with more experience-as you can imagine-but the catch is, over the years as you age, you start to slow down. The joints (wrists,knees,back,hips)start to ache. But there's no replacement for experience. Twu just let's mgt exploit there weakness.

Btw, I "Like" your wage figures...anyway to sell AA mgt on that?

Dunno. You'll need to ask your worthless "union" why its table position isn't seeking $50/hr in NYC or CHI or LAX or other high-cost cities. UPS mechanics make $50/hr in SDF - one of the lowest-cost cities in the nation.

The $41k current starting pay isn't terrible in Tulsa, another very low-cost place to live. It's ridiculous in the high-cost cities.

 

[strikeforce]

Dunno. You'll need to ask your worthless "union" why its table position isn't seeking $50/hr in NYC or CHI or LAX or other high-cost cities. UPS mechanics make $50/hr in SDF - one of the lowest-cost cities in the nation.

The $41k current starting pay isn't terrible in Tulsa, another very low-cost place to live. It's ridiculous in the high-cost cities.

Let's ask Bob Owens if the membership had a say regarding "pay". WE don't have a say on anything regarding the CBA. C'mon, didn't you know that the secret society of geniuses know more than 11,000 dumb AMT's???

 

[Rogallo]

Let's ask Bob Owens if the membership had a say regarding "pay". WE don't have a say on anything regarding the CBA. C'mon, didn't you know that the secret society of geniuses know more than 11,000 dumb AMT's???

TWU Int'l....

 

[Bob Owens]

Let's ask Bob Owens if the membership had a say regarding "pay". WE don't have a say on anything regarding the CBA. C'mon, didn't you know that the secret society of geniuses know more than 11,000 dumb AMT's???

We do have a say, when we vote on what gets brought back. The problem is the union leadership routinely provides misleading information. Case in point, the release from the TWU international describes the Fleet TA as a four year deal with a 9% increae instead of a seven plus year deal with concessions that will eliminate jobs and likely cost them around $100,000 each by the time they die by giving up the pre funded retiree medical and the matching funds.

These half truths have been standard fare as long as I've been here.

When I was hired we were making much less than our peers at UAL, top wage was less, we had less vacation, less sick time and other concessions however the TWU would claim that we had a better pension because our multiplier was higher, ours was, it was .0167 as opposed to UAL's .0165. The catch was we lost the first year, so the advantage was cancelled out.

Then came LTD, we started paying for this, some of our peers still don't pay for this.

Then came Flex Benifits.

Then came Prefunding, now, after the company had this concession in place for 20 years they are trying to get us to agree to the removal of millions of members dollars from a bankruptcy protected fund and hand half of them over to the company to pay the company's obligations to their retirees.

Then came SRPs which devastated airline run overhaul in the US, with AA, AA had this cost saving measure well established when the post 9-11 downturn sent competitors into BK. Since there was no feasible way that they could put this cost saving structure in place they simply outsourced the work.

Then came giving he company more concessions outside of BK than they could expect to get in BK. Sure we kept our pensions and retiree medical but we more than paid the actual costs of retaining them by only getting five holidays at half pay, one week less vacation, straight time for training, and other inferior work rules.

Now we see the international staying very quiet about what exactly will be given up by giving in to the companies demands, they only stress and headline what they are getting and distort the timeline.

In the end it usually comes out, the members vote based on what the International puts out, when the members finally realized they were sold out the international says "don't blame us, blame your negotiating committee" or " hey, you guys voted for it". They are not accountable to us as they are not put there by us. They automatically chair all committees and they can dissolve and overrule any committee but somehow they are to blame and the International claims they don't control the process, which is bull, Article 47 has it in black and white what the true role of the committee is, witnesses.

 

[Mr Red]

The unions have destroyed the AMT profession.....they don't represent OUR best interest, otherwise WE wouldn't be in this quagmire! It's about saving dues....and, the union will BRAG about how many jobs they saved although wages go down and the out of pocket expenses go up. So, who's side are they really on????? When is our membership going to wake up to the fact that the TWU INTL isn't interested in enhancing the AMT's lifestyle....only theirs!

And the TWU has been a leader in the destruction !!!There will be no AA B/K,they had a free one already,Didn't pay a Lawyer a dime.Haven't paid income Tax in years,Get tax credits for retire health care from Obama care, don't fully fund retirement and have a pile of cash in the bank!!! They are just playing the AMR game!!!

 

[TWU informer]

We do have a say, when we vote on what gets brought back. The problem is the union leadership routinely provides misleading information. Case in point, the release from the TWU international describes the Fleet TA as a four year deal with a 9% increae instead of a seven plus year deal with concessions that will eliminate jobs and likely cost them around $100,000 each by the time they die by giving up the pre funded retiree medical and the matching funds.

These half truths have been standard fare as long as I've been here.

When I was hired we were making much less than our peers at UAL, top wage was less, we had less vacation, less sick time and other concessions however the TWU would claim that we had a better pension because our multiplier was higher, ours was, it was .0167 as opposed to UAL's .0165. The catch was we lost the first year, so the advantage was cancelled out.

Then came LTD, we started paying for this, some of our peers still don't pay for this.

Then came Flex Benifits.

Then came Prefunding, now, after the company had this concession in place for 20 years they are trying to get us to agree to the removal of millions of members dollars from a bankruptcy protected fund and hand half of them over to the company to pay the company's obligations to their retirees.

Then came SRPs which devastated airline run overhaul in the US, with AA, AA had this cost saving measure well established when the post 9-11 downturn sent competitors into BK. Since there was no feasible way that they could put this cost saving structure in place they simply outsourced the work.

Then came giving he company more concessions outside of BK than they could expect to get in BK. Sure we kept our pensions and retiree medical but we more than paid the actual costs of retaining them by only getting five holidays at half pay, one week less vacation, straight time for training, and other inferior work rules.

Now we see the international staying very quiet about what exactly will be given up by giving in to the companies demands, they only stress and headline what they are getting and distort the timeline.

In the end it usually comes out, the members vote based on what the International puts out, when the members finally realized they were sold out the international says "don't blame us, blame your negotiating committee" or " hey, you guys voted for it". They are not accountable to us as they are not put there by us. They automatically chair all committees and they can dissolve and overrule any committee but somehow they are to blame and the International claims they don't control the process, which is bull, Article 47 has it in black and white what the true role of the committee is, witnesses.

Yes Bob, that is not complete list of truth but none the less sums up the problem.

I watch with interest to see if your sworn oath of allegiance to that you posted along with your communications and involvement actually change the downward spiral.

I do hope you succeed, but I would have to bet against you if I wanted a chance at winning a gamble.

 

[odie01]

Looks like the twu is hard at work for Dispatch
http://aanegotiations.com/twuTimelineUpd.asp

http://aanegotiations.com/twu-at-a-glance.asp

 

[odie01]

Hey Fleet, Gless worked out a Enhanced Profit sharing plan for ya! Time to make another video
http://aa.twu.org/Default.asp

 

[Buck]

I believe this is the appropriate thread: Leading Edge

Maintenance
Q: Wall Street is recommending that airlines sell the mainte-nance function of their operations to cut costs. Is there any talk at Headquarters about that?

Snook: There are no immediate plans to do that. We want to do as much of our work in-house as we can, if we can be competitive doing it. We have taken great pride in the fact that we are the one major carrier that has kept the vast majority of our maintenance work in-house. I think we have a great product as a result.

Q: Would the company save money by outsourcing M&E?

Snook: There is no analysis that suggests that selling off M&E would save us money. I do not believe it is on the table. I cannot predict what would happen in a bankruptcy scenario. Our plan is to keep M&E inside the organization.


There is more information in the link:

 

[paul1]

It will be interesting, if we do go into bk. will there be any thing left of AA. Its easy to say now, go into bk it will be no worse. Well it can be alot worse. The TWU has no plan in place if we are released by the end of Nov. except that the company will come up with the real deal at the last hour of the 30 day cooling of period. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE!!!!!

Usair can pick up the parts they want (routes, not people) just because delta and united surived bk, many others failed eastern, pan am, midway the list goes on. No we are not to big to fail, and thats what the other airlines are looking for so they can increase there market shares.

By AA failing this will also help some of the problems for other airlines no shortage of pilots and mech. great we can all start at the bottom again. lower pay the worst shifts etc. etc and by AA going away the other airlines will be able to keep there wages low.

Yes we gave up a great deal in 2003, but we voted it in. The company continues to take, but are options are few and far in between. A strike good luck the TWU has NO plan. Saty informed good luck with that one two>

 

[Hopeful]

It will be interesting, if we do go into bk. will there be any thing left of AA. Its easy to say now, go into bk it will be no worse. Well it can be alot worse. The TWU has no plan in place if we are released by the end of Nov. except that the company will come up with the real deal at the last hour of the 30 day cooling of period. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE!!!!!

Usair can pick up the parts they want (routes, not people) just because delta and united surived bk, many others failed eastern, pan am, midway the list goes on. No we are not to big to fail, and thats what the other airlines are looking for so they can increase there market shares.

By AA failing this will also help some of the problems for other airlines no shortage of pilots and mech. great we can all start at the bottom again. lower pay the worst shifts etc. etc and by AA going away the other airlines will be able to keep there wages low.

Yes we gave up a great deal in 2003, but we voted it in. The company continues to take, but are options are few and far in between. A strike good luck the TWU has NO plan. Saty informed good luck with that one two>

Why do you continually spew "will there be anything left of AA." Is AA any different than US, UAL, DL, NW when they filed?
As for "release" I have news for you, AA will probably file BEFORE anyone gets released.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Gimme Credit analyst Vicki Bryan took a hard look at AMR's numbers in her investor report Monday and pointed out that despite annual revenue rising 35 percent since 2003, AMR is still posting significant losses.

"The main culprit, however, has not been AMR's labor costs. It was spiking fuel expense, which is up 187 percent from $2.8 billion per year in 2003 to the current $7.96 billion," Bryan wrote.

Bryan told investors that AMR's top executives are receiving compensation packages worth 10 times their base pay and are earning more than the top executives at United Continental and are close to Delta Air Lines' executive pay. Those two airlines are posting consistent profits.


enough said.............