TWU negotiations.........what?

[Buck]

Buck,

If I mistook your original statement as a shot at me then I apologize. these are tense times,many of us are on edge as our careers our on the line and no one in power seems to care.

No reason to shoot at you, you are not my enemy.

 

[Bob Owens]

Josh,

In the words of Tony Soprano are you trying to get Bob Owens "Whacked" <_<

He'll need to get in line for that!

 

[Frank Szabo]

View attachment 9218

Couldn't resist ...

 

[strikeforce]

regarding the TWU defined benefit plan....does anyone know a dollar amount....whether hourly, bi-weekly or monthly, the company sets aside per TWU employee??? Maybe Bob Owens knows????

 

[Buck]

regarding the TWU defined benefit plan....does anyone know a dollar amount....whether hourly, bi-weekly or monthly, the company sets aside per TWU employee??? Maybe Bob Owens knows????

I started at the beginning and after 27 years I pay $7.84 bi-weekly.

 

[Buck]

Rumor from a STL manager, that a contract will be placed before the membership on or near the 17th of November and of course it is a take it or self help boys.......





Did you feel that?

Was that another earthquake?

 

[Hopeful]

Rumor from a STL manager, that a contract will be placed before the membership on or near the 17th of November and of course it is a take it or self help boys.......





Did you feel that?

Was that another earthquake?

Of course! Why else do you think the negotiating committee voted in favor of asking the NMB for release should there be no T/A the week of Nov 17th!
They voted that way feeling that a T/A will be sent back to the members for a vote... the company's final offer of course!

 

[strikeforce]

Of course! Why else do you think the negotiating committee voted in favor of asking the NMB for release should there be no T/A the week of Nov 17th!
They voted that way feeling that a T/A will be sent back to the members for a vote... the company's final offer of course!

YOU THINK!!!!!

There's NO mystery on how the TWU conducts negotiations.....is there????

Karnack says the T/A will mirror fleets????

 

[strikeforce]

I started at the beginning and after 27 years I pay $7.84 bi-weekly.

are you talking pre-funding or pension???

I'm talking about pension benefits. AA must have a formula where they can calculate the cost per hour, per TWU employee. Does anyone know the cost per hour or where I can find this information???

 

[Buck]

are you talking pre-funding or pension???

I'm talking about pension benefits. AA must have a formula where they can calculate the cost per hour, per TWU employee. Does anyone know the cost per hour or where I can find this information???

Pre-funding.

Ask the TWU a former president of Local 514 he had a look at the company books. In fact he even got into their pockets......

Or you could just ask Carmine....

 

[Observer]

Rumor from a STL manager, that a contract will be placed before the membership on or near the 17th of November and of course it is a take it or self help boys.......





Did you feel that?

Was that another earthquake?

From a STL manager????? Really????? Such BS....................

 

[Buck]

From a STL manager????? Really????? Such BS....................

Of course it is BS

 

[Bob Owens]

are you talking pre-funding or pension???

I'm talking about pension benefits. AA must have a formula where they can calculate the cost per hour, per TWU employee. Does anyone know the cost per hour or where I can find this information???

All I can say is that the company admitted that there would be no cost savings by switching to a DC plan in negotiations, that it would actually require them to lay out more cash now, that over the long term they expected savings.
You have to remember that a properly funded and managed pension generates enough money so that they often require no additional funding from the company. Some workers in the plan die without ever collecting a check. Many dont stay long enough to build up a pension. With a DC plan they bank on people not putting in enough to get the match but if they do the company has to put that money in regardless of how well the market is doing.

Read the book "Retirement Heist" by Ellen Shultz. Its a numbers game, when they changed the accounting rules corporations had to carry the potential liabilities of pensions and retiree benefits on their books. So if they shed the pensions and retiree benefits it looks like they made money, then they can reward themselves with huge bonuses for their performance. Many of todays "troubled pensions" were overfunded but corporations found a way of stealing these funds and dumping stuff in there for the executives to make it look like our pension checks were killing corporate competitiveness. Its a huge scam, one where they are stealing what they promised us and giving it to the executives. Where do you think the money for the outrageous salaries they pay executives are coming from? The shareholders? No, from us.

If AA gets what it wants with the Prefunding they not only get a positive cash windfall of well over $100 million from our matching funds but they also get to write off the liability of providing retiree benefits. So the deal would provide real cash gains plus paper gains.

In reality they arent going after the DB because its better for the long term health of the company , they are going after it for the short term benefit of their pockets.

 

[strikeforce]

All I can say is that the company admitted that there would be no cost savings by switching to a DC plan in negotiations, that it would actually require them to lay out more cash now, that over the long term they expected savings.
You have to remember that a properly funded and managed pension generates enough money so that they often require no additional funding from the company. Some workers in the plan die without ever collecting a check. Many dont stay long enough to build up a pension. With a DC plan they bank on people not putting in enough to get the match but if they do the company has to put that money in regardless of how well the market is doing.

Read the book "Retirement Heist" by Ellen Shultz. Its a numbers game, when they changed the accounting rules corporations had to carry the potential liabilities of pensions and retiree benefits on their books. So if they shed the pensions and retiree benefits it looks like they made money, then they can reward themselves with huge bonuses for their performance. Many of todays "troubled pensions" were overfunded but corporations found a way of stealing these funds and dumping stuff in there for the executives to make it look like our pension checks were killing corporate competitiveness. Its a huge scam, one where they are stealing what they promised us and giving it to the executives. Where do you think the money for the outrageous salaries they pay executives are coming from? The shareholders? No, from us.

If AA gets what it wants with the Prefunding they not only get a positive cash windfall of well over $100 million from our matching funds but they also get to write off the liability of providing retiree benefits. So the deal would provide real cash gains plus paper gains.

In reality they arent going after the DB because its better for the long term health of the company , they are going after it for the short term benefit of their pockets.

Bob, DB plans offer a more stable monthly income for most, but for corporations they're rolling the dice hoping the worker dies as soon as possible after retirement and the spouse dies the day after...this way they pocket the money. I believe WE all would be better off with a lump sum payment plan like the pilots. I asked for a dollar figure based on hourly wages....say for example the company puts $20 per hour into the DB plan....I would be willing to save the company $5 an hour and have the company put $15 per hour in a 401K or IRA of my choosing x 2080 hrs =$31,200 per year x 14 years till I reach 60=$436,800 or 19 years till 65=$592,800. And, that's without any investment gains. At retirement I walk away with a pretty good chunk of change and it's mine to keep whether I live or die. I would gladly exchange the DB plan for a lump sum plan. For the company the savings are huge. Take the $5 per hour savings using the example above x 2080 hrs = $10,400 per mechanic x 11,000 mechanics = $114.4M per year.

Back to my question....does anyone at the TWU know the dollar amount the company sets aside for each employee....per hour, bi-weekly or monthly, so I can calculate a lump sum plan such as the one above. And, how many would exchange their DB plan for lump sum plan if in fact the company was placing $10, $15 or $20 an hour into the plan?????? Do the math????

 

[TWU informer]

All I can say is that the company admitted that there would be no cost savings by switching to a DC plan in negotiations, that it would actually require them to lay out more cash now, that over the long term they expected savings.
You have to remember that a properly funded and managed pension generates enough money so that they often require no additional funding from the company. Some workers in the plan die without ever collecting a check. Many dont stay long enough to build up a pension. With a DC plan they bank on people not putting in enough to get the match but if they do the company has to put that money in regardless of how well the market is doing.

Read the book "Retirement Heist" by Ellen Shultz. Its a numbers game, when they changed the accounting rules corporations had to carry the potential liabilities of pensions and retiree benefits on their books. So if they shed the pensions and retiree benefits it looks like they made money, then they can reward themselves with huge bonuses for their performance. Many of todays "troubled pensions" were overfunded but corporations found a way of stealing these funds and dumping stuff in there for the executives to make it look like our pension checks were killing corporate competitiveness. Its a huge scam, one where they are stealing what they promised us and giving it to the executives. Where do you think the money for the outrageous salaries they pay executives are coming from? The shareholders? No, from us.

If AA gets what it wants with the Prefunding they not only get a positive cash windfall of well over $100 million from our matching funds but they also get to write off the liability of providing retiree benefits. So the deal would provide real cash gains plus paper gains.

In reality they arent going after the DB because its better for the long term health of the company , they are going after it for the short term benefit of their pockets.

What?

In the first paragraph you say switching to a Defined Contribution plan cost more in the short term.

Then in the last sentence you say just the opposite, that they are going after the DB for short term benefit of their pockets.

Which is it? I am having trouble following you again. I understand the scam and stealing part in the middle of your post. But the beginning and end contradict each other badly.