Flying low
Veteran
- Jul 19, 2011
- 629
- 232
"saving the company from bankruptcy" would be the emergency.....
TWU negotiations.........what?
- Thread starter Chuck Schalk
- Start date
"saving the company from bankruptcy" would be the emergency.....
I hope the Fleet guys educate themselves as far as PreFunding before they give away the company match and are left to fend for themselves by paying out of pocket for medical coverage when they retire. Those funds are basically deferred compensation and the company has gotten the Fleet guys to agree to give half of their fund to the company in exchange for return of their own contributions, which would be taxed at the max rate. They are giving away 50 cents on the dollar to screw themselves out of retiree medical. They lose the tax advantage now of saving for retiree health benefits and the match that has accumulated since they turned 30. In Aircraft Maintenance the company is looking for the same thing, and they admitted in their cost out they would get an immediate $57 million windfall. Thats around $5000 per worker that would be signed over to the company, in other words you would be funding your own increases with your future benefits, its a Lose-Lose proposition despite the companys spin"You no longer have to prefund retiree medical" , we never did, it was always voluntary, if you want to not have to pay a lot more when you retire.
Some may not be that concerned because the current rates the company is charging the non-union folks they ripped off are low, but they should recall how when we went with Flex Benefits the benefit dollars not only covered our benefits but many of us had funds left over to buy Flex vacation, now the benefit dollars are gone and we pay thousands of dollars plus copays , deductables etc. Once they get everyone they can to give up prefunding I expect those rates to skyrocket.
Perhaps many dont realize that Prefunding provides not only Early Retiree medical but also coverage when you are on Medicare, my 72 year old Mother pays over $200 a month for similar coverage as a retiree from Dow Chemical (Union Carbide). My father and her where promised free retiree medical but they had no Union, like our agents who were promised and lost the same thing.
So lets say you give up your $10,000 fund for $5000 (estimate based on what the company admitted they would get back from M&R)and you clear $3000 after taxes. That would only pay for a little over a year of coverage or less by the time the average worker retires.
The sad thing is if Fleet agrees to this and the Trust is dissolved for them it gives the company even more of an incentive to go BK, not less, because they could probably go after those who are already retired simply by asking the Judge to relieve them of that liability. They would have grabbed the $50 plus million in matching contributions, possiibly slid those funds into Trusts for executive benefits,(remember the SERPS in 2003?) then tell the courts that the retiree medical is a huge liability and they can no longer provide it for "free", they could not only shed those who recently retired but all the fleet guys who retired.
Think about it, if they are planning to go BK what a coup it would be to take away one of the few things we have thats protected in BK, the Trust fund for retiree health benefits. They could not get it in BK but if we agree to give it to them before BK then shame on us!!
I know people are desperate and things are hard but this deal is worse than taking money out of your 401K, since after all this fund has a 100% match, has had one since the first penny you put into it, and you would be agreeing to give it all back for a fraction of your own contributions now.
Vote No.
OP
Chuck Schalk
Veteran
- Nov 17, 2006
- 1,042
- 1,149
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #4,263
where is high speed steel explaining how great the fleet proposal is and explain his saving jobs theory again
cricket........cricket.........cricket
cricket........cricket.........cricket
Or Overspeed?
AMR *is* likely to face bankruptcy in the intermediate term in my opinion.
Can the membership elect Bob Owens for international president? Perhaps he'd be better from the perspective of union members than a former manager at AA as leader. While I may disagree with some of Bob's opinions and statements about the company (ie AAdvantage gives away free travel and reduces revenues or the whole concept of investing in aircraft and facilities for passengers instead of salaries and benefits) but I respect his positions. If he's representative of the memberships feelings maybe everyone would be better served with new leadership.
Josh
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
Josh,
Either this is sarcasm or you are ignorant as to how the twu is structured. The membership does not elect international officers let alone the president of the whole twu. That is reserved for the good old boy network to appoint. That is why AMP was created and in my opinion Bob would be a great 1st President for AMP.
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
I think the T/A for Fleet Service is bad and it is TUL O/H's fault......
Maybe if we sell off Fleet Service the line would be happy?
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
BAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
Flying low
Veteran
- Jul 19, 2011
- 629
- 232
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
OP
Chuck Schalk
Veteran
- Nov 17, 2006
- 1,042
- 1,149
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #4,272
Ok Buck, keep the wheel churning in your pathetic attempt to deflect from the real question.
Say Hello to High speed steel in the turbine building
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
Well I am not in the Turbine Building. However I will keep the wheel churning. I am not attempting to deflect anything. As you might have noticed that my position is for the line to have GEO and Line premiums. I just tire of the Line Mechanics that come on here and again and again state that there needs to be a seperation from O/H for the line to gain what the feel is needed.
So explain to me what the real question is?
Is the real question or issue a much needed contract with the company?
Or is it a I got mine issue?
It surprises me that you, Chuck would attempt to gain more than your fellow human beings. In another thread on this site you want those that have to share with those who do not.
Now can will get back on topic and talk about negotiations and stop dividing what we do have going into negotions before we get to a contract. Yes the Line premium and GEO pay needs to be discussed. But is it not true that we have negotiators to discuss these issues with the company. I would like more compensation for you and the others in high cost areas, however I am not willing to take what I have now and any increase and give it to the line to prosper or survive. There should be way the negotiators can work with the cities to retain their talent. I am sure that gate fees and landing fees are different in the larger traffic areas.
What other negotiated ways can line pay and geo pay be acheived?
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
Pretty damn pathetic how those that used to have commonality are now at odds.
Maybe the name of the union, or even the Consitution has nothing to do with our weakness.
OP
Chuck Schalk
Veteran
- Nov 17, 2006
- 1,042
- 1,149
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #4,275
Buck,
If I mistook your original statement as a shot at me then I apologize. these are tense times,many of us are on edge as our careers our on the line and no one in power seems to care.
If I mistook your original statement as a shot at me then I apologize. these are tense times,many of us are on edge as our careers our on the line and no one in power seems to care.
