What many in Tulsa would like to see is Bob Owens as their president with 6000 roll call votes.
TWU negotiations.........what?
- Thread starter Chuck Schalk
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What many in Tulsa would like to see is Bob Owens as their president with 6000 roll call votes.
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How can one loosing their position?
TWU informer
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By posting the names along with votes on release for one.
Like it or not, imwithstupid is right, Bob fears losing his position and does conform to the TWU secrecy.
No different than the members, sitting around waiting for someone in authority to tell them it is time to demonstrate your resolve. For all the chest pounding that goes on here, there doesn't seem to be any real unionism. Just finger pointing and blaming.
OP
Chuck Schalk
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Wait a minute Dave, I work along side with Bob Owens and I can put my word on it that Bob Owens is not afraid of losing his position as a matter of fact he pushes the envelope of the issues which puts him in harms way. The challenges Bob faces is the lack of support on him challenging the issues in the Presidents Council and the Negotiating Committee. What other President speaks out publicly? Bob is not the one to be criticized for his efforts. it is the silent one's that need to be grilled on their support of secrecy, lack of leadership, acting like puppets in committee, not informing the membership, not challenging the company or our own union officials on issues.....etc
We do not have these problems in Local 562 but apparently other locals do. The call to action is towards the silent one's who hide behnd the wall of the TWU Iron curtain.
strikeforce
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I don't have any authority.......Let the three ring circus act begin and start the demonstration, already!!!!!!!! Game ON!!!!!!!!!
When did I do that?
Really? I think some fear I wont. If I recall the International sent Steve Luis, Steve Gilboy , Todd Gibbs and Johnny Griffith to JFK the week the ballots went out to campaign against me. They told the guys that Tulsa was on the same page, supported Geo Pay and that they could not afford to have new faces brought in at the time. They also accused Steve Gukelberger of screwing up the Stores negotiations and said that newly elected Bob Zimmerman was like"a deer in the headlights" in negotiations. Less than a year later Luis and Gilboy both had International Titles and both voted to get rid of geo pay.
I admit that I want to continue with what I started but I would not say that I fear losing my position. I've been thrown out before and I still take on the International for their shortcomings.
I'd rather be accused of being no different than the members than more like management than union, which unfortunately is where many who get elected , then appointed, end up. I feel its important for Presidents to realize that they are no different than the members, that we are here to represent the members to the company and the International and we are not here to represent the International to the members. The fact is that due to our deeply flawed structure, and Jim Little admits that its flawed the International retains control over our contract to a degree thats inconsistant with the rest of the TWU. So as much and as well as they pin the blame on the Presidents council and the negotiating committee they are still responsible, to dont like the fact that my speaking exposes what they would like to keep secret from the members. The only things that we should keep secret from the members, and only on a temporary basis, are things that we dont want the company to know that we know.
As far as posting who voted how I've never hid how I feel on this, the company will not move unless they are faced with the possibility of self help. Others feel that we need to continue with informal talks, I see no value in them, they do, its not a case of right and wrong its a case of opinion. Are there things I'm not saying at this time, sure, but eventually it will come out how things went down, from my perspective anyhow. You could always ask your representatives how they voted, I doubt they would lie when they know that sooner or later it will get out, but I have to consider whether posting names at this time would polarize those who I may disagree on this issue of when we ask to be released and not if, and lose any chance that later on they may see things more as I do. I'd rather not give some an excuse and I dont feel that posting names would give me a better opportunity to get others to see what I see. It has not been lost to me that there are people who have more at stake if we get to a strike situation and that may be a reason to try and avoid it if at all possible, I just dont think that we can avoid another concessionary deal unless the company is convinced that we are willing to take that chance. I think that the company is threatening that if any group files and gets a release that they will file and despite my opinion that I do not feel that there is enough capacity at present to pick up all of AA's OH work, however I could be wrong, having seen what happened at competitors gives the threat that they would farm out OH more teeth than the threat that they may farm out Line Maint or simply liquidate.
I guess you feel it takes balls to throw out accusations from behind an alias.
snip "Less than a year later Luis and Gilboy both had International Titles and both voted to get rid of geo pay." Bob Owens
What international position does Gilboy and Luis hold? And if they voted to do away with geo pay, what did they get in return or what would they have to give up to get geo pay? Is Owens implying that Luis and Gilboy received international positions by voting against geo pay. It makes no sense for the TWU to want us to make less money, but it is a serious accusation to say our negotiators are corrupt.
Sounds like Owens is giving half the info or making haphazard accusations. Which ever Owens is doing, he is weakening the TWU negotiating committee by creating a feeling of corruption in the committee to the membership, without giving the whole story.
What international position does Gilboy and Luis hold? And if they voted to do away with geo pay, what did they get in return or what would they have to give up to get geo pay? Is Owens implying that Luis and Gilboy received international positions by voting against geo pay. It makes no sense for the TWU to want us to make less money, but it is a serious accusation to say our negotiators are corrupt.
Sounds like Owens is giving half the info or making haphazard accusations. Which ever Owens is doing, he is weakening the TWU negotiating committee by creating a feeling of corruption in the committee to the membership, without giving the whole story.
Frank Szabo
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You really need to open your eyes and get a grip on reality.
Are you related to Flatline?
odie01
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I get it, your Imwithstupids buddy.
Show the proof of local Presidents not acting in our best interest, in a union meeting at NY's local and have all the proof put into the meetings minutes, rather then make accusations on a forum. I personally think there is a lot of give and take in a contract negotiation and there are a lot proposals that are taken in and taken out until the final agreement is made.
The TWU is OUR union right now, until if or when AMP takes a vote, it doesn't do any good when a local President makes accusations of not having the members best interest at heart when talking of other local Presidents. That just creates distrust of our union/negotiation committee.
The TWU is OUR union right now, until if or when AMP takes a vote, it doesn't do any good when a local President makes accusations of not having the members best interest at heart when talking of other local Presidents. That just creates distrust of our union/negotiation committee.
I asked very easy questions, but all I get in return is a flipant remarks. Answer my questions with some proof. Bob has no problem damning these other presidents, but we have only his accusations without hearing the whole context of how any of the votes or proposals went. We have only Bob's version.
I don't know flatline.
OP
Chuck Schalk
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Obviously Duke787, you never sat in on the Presidents Council or Negotiations. If you want to open a can of worms lets talk about 2003 negotiations.
Some of things that happen at the president's council and negotiations is controversial and subject to opinion.
Opinions are fine, that's the beauty part about forums, but a local president saying that other presidents are getting international jobs because they voted down geo pay is another.
"Less than a year later Luis and Gilboy both had International Titles and both voted to get rid of geo pay." Bob Owens
TWU informer
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The truth is real simple.
The TWU holds secret negotiations and keep relevant information from the members on a regular basis.
There is no champion willing to take on that establishment and expose the truth and the facts. This includes Bob Owens.
Therefore Bob is just as much an agent in the continutation of the problem as those he demeans here on a regular basis.
Maybe my use of the word "fear" was off base when describing Bob, but there is some reason why he is unwilling to expose the facts.
If not fear of losing his position, then what reason?
IIRC he has more than once stated that he doesnt want to be thrown off the committee because representation of his local members would be diminished.
That sounds like fear to me. There is a difference between fear and being coward. Bob is no coward, this I know. But he does fear being removed as a result of sharing the facts, the truth, and exposing specific facts that prove the TWU sucks and needs to be replaced.
What I dont understand is why the 8 for release wouldnt ban together and expose the 9 opposed.
If the release issue was really the tool that would end this standoff as Bob claims, then why not take a stand and allow the membership to see that the TWU farce regarding the "I VOTE NO and AUTHORIZE A STRIKE" on the ballot, which the membership majority chose as our path, was not only a farce, but their appears to be a group of 9 and some International Reps, that once again could care less what the membership directs the leadership to do.
Instead they ALL appear like a giant cat in a litter box covering their collective turds.
The TWU holds secret negotiations and keep relevant information from the members on a regular basis.
There is no champion willing to take on that establishment and expose the truth and the facts. This includes Bob Owens.
Therefore Bob is just as much an agent in the continutation of the problem as those he demeans here on a regular basis.
Maybe my use of the word "fear" was off base when describing Bob, but there is some reason why he is unwilling to expose the facts.
If not fear of losing his position, then what reason?
IIRC he has more than once stated that he doesnt want to be thrown off the committee because representation of his local members would be diminished.
That sounds like fear to me. There is a difference between fear and being coward. Bob is no coward, this I know. But he does fear being removed as a result of sharing the facts, the truth, and exposing specific facts that prove the TWU sucks and needs to be replaced.
What I dont understand is why the 8 for release wouldnt ban together and expose the 9 opposed.
If the release issue was really the tool that would end this standoff as Bob claims, then why not take a stand and allow the membership to see that the TWU farce regarding the "I VOTE NO and AUTHORIZE A STRIKE" on the ballot, which the membership majority chose as our path, was not only a farce, but their appears to be a group of 9 and some International Reps, that once again could care less what the membership directs the leadership to do.
Instead they ALL appear like a giant cat in a litter box covering their collective turds.
