TWU negotiations.........what?

[strikeforce]

I agree that signing ones name carries the same risk, you carry that risk even if you dont get license pay.

I agree that we have to put the Line vs AO BS behind us but some of the issues coming up here should have come up a long time ago. People working weekends and shifts have never been properly compensated, and the reason was pretty clear, the majority of the people in AO and those who made it to Days on the line, which greatly outnumbered those forced to work undesirable shifts would not push for it. It was pure "I got mine" and the leadership (most of whom had the seniority to avoid those shifts as well) never made any attempt to correct that.

While majority rules in a union if you ever want unity the wishes , needs and desires of the minority must be given attention as well. Thats where leadership comes in. Leadership has to speak to the majority to insure that the majority doesnt trample over the minority and cause divisions. Might doesnt make right, it only makes winners and losers. The majority has to realize that compromise is the price that must be paid if they desire unity. Its unrealistic to expect the minority to support the majority if their needs are not addressed, especially if those needs are economic. This is a concept that for many years the leadership that came out of Tulsa (Yingst, Burchette, Wilson) simply could not grasp, their legacy was a deeply divided membership. At one point in 2009 in an Article 12 Subcommittee meeting Luis said right in front of the company basically that since I was from a "little local" my opinion didnt matter. Not exactly an attitude that fosters unity. The leadership we see out of Tulsa now seems to have a much better grasp of this concept. The fact is they inherited and still carry the big hammer but they dont swing it around and are willing to consider the little guys perspective.

If you work undesirable hours there should be a meaningful benifit to compensate for the negative impact of working those hours. People who work such hours tend to suffer a long list of ailments, psycological and physical.

With the company now demanding that ao go to the same type of scheduling as the line ao now looks at having to work weekends differently. many people in ao relocated specifically for the normality that having weekends off and not working midnights provide. We've always had to deal with those schedules, outside in all types of weather (another consideration) and do so with a premium of between less than 2% for a guy on days working Sat/Sun to around 5% for a guy on nights. At one point, back in 2003, the President of Tulsa was pushing to trade the line premium for an extra holiday, another example of poor leadership attempting to exploit majority rule and divide the membership even further.

I have enough seniority where I dont have to work nights but I think night shift premium should at the very least be 10% as it is in many industries, except Aviation.

The offer on the table does start to address these things.

Bob I commend your efforts in speaking for the minority, Line. I agree we need to stop the arguement between line and oh, and work for the benefit of all the members. Although the union proposal starts to chip away at the disparity between AA Line and SWA, UPS & Fed Ex, the ao question regarding the breaking point hourly cost factor for AA will come into play either in this proposal or in future proposals. The union just can't ignore the going rate for line mechanics, such as SWA, while negotiating for ao. I understand it's difficult because the union has to be mindful of the majority, but the further disparity between AA line and other competitors will only increase animosity between line and oh, and ultimately will result in mechanics looking for other agents to represent them. similar to what's happening today.

 

[odie01]

I agree that signing ones name carries the same risk, you carry that risk even if you dont get license pay.

I agree that we have to put the Line vs AO BS behind us but some of the issues coming up here should have come up a long time ago. People working weekends and shifts have never been properly compensated, and the reason was pretty clear, the majority of the people in AO and those who made it to Days on the line, which greatly outnumbered those forced to work undesirable shifts would not push for it. It was pure "I got mine" and the leadership (most of whom had the seniority to avoid those shifts as well) never made any attempt to correct that.

While majority rules in a union if you ever want unity the wishes , needs and desires of the minority must be given attention as well. Thats where leadership comes in. Leadership has to speak to the majority to insure that the majority doesnt trample over the minority and cause divisions. Might doesnt make right, it only makes winners and losers. The majority has to realize that compromise is the price that must be paid if they desire unity. Its unrealistic to expect the minority to support the majority if their needs are not addressed, especially if those needs are economic. This is a concept that for many years the leadership that came out of Tulsa (Yingst, Burchette, Wilson) simply could not grasp, their legacy was a deeply divided membership. At one point in 2009 in an Article 12 Subcommittee meeting Luis said right in front of the company basically that since I was from a "little local" my opinion didnt matter. Not exactly an attitude that fosters unity. The leadership we see out of Tulsa now seems to have a much better grasp of this concept. The fact is they inherited and still carry the big hammer but they dont swing it around and are willing to consider the little guys perspective.

If you work undesirable hours there should be a meaningful benifit to compensate for the negative impact of working those hours. People who work such hours tend to suffer a long list of ailments, psycological and physical.

With the company now demanding that ao go to the same type of scheduling as the line ao now looks at having to work weekends differently. many people in ao relocated specifically for the normality that having weekends off and not working midnights provide. We've always had to deal with those schedules, outside in all types of weather (another consideration) and do so with a premium of between less than 2% for a guy on days or afts working Sat/Sun to around 5% for a guy on nights. At one point, back in 2003, the President of Tulsa was pushing to trade the line premium for an extra holiday, another example of poor leadership attempting to exploit majority rule and divide the membership even further.

I have enough seniority where I dont have to work nights but I think night shift premium (Line and AO)should at the very least be 10% as it is in many industries, except Aviation, (because airline workers and their leaders at other carriers were just as self centered as they were here).

The offer on the table does start to address these things.

Well said Bob,
Ask Jack if we can give the company 30 days to look it over.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob I commend your efforts in speaking for the minority, Line. I agree we need to stop the arguement between line and oh, and work for the benefit of all the members. Although the union proposal starts to chip away at the disparity between AA Line and SWA, UPS & Fed Ex, the ao question regarding the breaking point hourly cost factor for AA will come into play either in this proposal or in future proposals. The union just can't ignore the going rate for line mechanics, such as SWA, while negotiating for ao. I understand it's difficult because the union has to be mindful of the majority, but the further disparity between AA line and other competitors will only increase animosity between line and oh, and ultimately will result in mechanics looking for other agents to represent them. similar to what's happening today.

The main thing that separates our AO and that of SWA and other carriers is the volume of work. Its my understanding that their AO makes the same as their Line. You also have to remember that our competitors didnt have SRPs (OSMs)which gave AA a huge cost advantage by bringing AA's average wage way down. According to the data they send out, I believe its around $27/hr. (OSMs only top out at $22/hr and many have their A&Ps but dont get paid for them.) In this proposal the majority of the AMTs would be around $40/hr. Those who work in high cost areas and nights would get the most, but the numbers are small, maybe 600 or so out of over 11,000 in the contract would see $43.96 ($2/hr less than SWA pays all their mechanics) and the company has the option to lower that even more by moving more work to days or to cheaper areas of the country that dont get the GEO pay. Most of the AMTs in AO would be just under $40 ($5/hr less than SWA)and the OSMs would top out at $25. I dont have the numbers in front of me but for simplification lets lump all the Cleaners, parts washers etc into OSMs and all the AMTs, A&Ps, Machinists, welders etc together. We figure 2000 OSMs and 4000 AMTs in AO. If the 2000 OSMs are maxing out at $25/hr and the 4000 AMTs are getting around $40 the maxed average pay is $35, which is less than SWA and many competitors are paying their mechanics($10/hr less than SWA, $15/hr less than UPS). So yes competitors have much fewer but they pay much more. The higher the number of OSMs the lower the average pay, plus as top paid OSMs upgrade they would be replaced by entry level OSM at $10.88/hr (if they can get them), bringing the average down even more not only for AO but for all Maintenance.

 

[odie01]

Fact: Something known to be true; truth or reality of something; actual course of events.

Democracy: free and equal representation of people.

Accountability: Responsible to somebody or for something; capable of being explained.

Truth: The thing that corresponds to fact or reality.

Four simple words that belong in the vocabulary of any union but we know these words are not only absent within the TWU but they strike fear into the heart of the TWU International. Since the drive began to have AMP certified at American Airlines what has the TWU done to validate their reason to represent you? The TWU has removed information posted at work that educates you about these four basic principles of craft unionism. The TWU has relied upon those loyal to the “good old boy network” to keep the membership in the dark.

“If you tell the truth, you have nothing to fear.” Yet the TWU International can NOT speak the truth when it comes to the meaning of fact, truth, democracy and accountability. As an individual who pays the TWU money every month have you asked yourself why this is? The answer is because the TWU doesn’t think YOU are smart enough to control YOUR union. Remember “Change from within”? The TWU wanted the membership to get involved in the union, but NOW that the membership wants to take control of the union all of a sudden the membership is incapable?

The drive to have a representational election between the TWU and AMP is approaching and the message the AMP organizers have spoken since day one of the drive remains factual, truthful, democratic and accountable. The time has come to ask yourself a question about what type of future you want for yourself and those who come after us and maintain the very aircraft we will be flying on when we retire. That question is “Am I tired of not having industry leading wages?”. Then ask yourself “Am I willing to accept continued ineptness and unaccountability from those I pay to provide a service?”.

The TWU International fears these four fundamental words because they go against the very structure of the TWU foundation. AMP is your union, for you controlled by you. AMP considers everyone in our craft and class valuable and skilled. If you wish to see your craft and profession be held hostage by people you cannot even vote for then remain motionless on your knees but if you wish to have a craft union that is based upon fact, truth, democracy and accountability sign an AMP Authorization card. It’s that simple!

GO AMP!

Please forward this to all the AA title I & II contacts in your address book.

AMP website is www.AMPNATIONAL.org

AMP Facebook is www.facebook.com/AMP.AA.2010

 

[1AA]

Read that United/Continental have reached a T/A. Anybody hear the same and if so any details on their T/A?

 

[Bob Owens]

Read that United/Continental have reached a T/A. Anybody hear the same and if so any details on their T/A?

No details yet. Hope they didnt undersell us. If they did we have to make sure that all the UAL guys know what we are asking for, what the IBT got at UPS, and hope they reject it like we did.

We need to work on closing the gap, airline mechanics wages were never this far apart. Even when I worked for the fly-by nighters those wages were closer to the majors, which were all around the same, than the majors are to each other.

We should plan on getting to the $50/hr mark within the next five years or before they use the shortage to push through FAR 66. We need to get there by leapfrogging off each other not whipsawing like we've been doing for years.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- While vacationing in the Los Angles area a few years back, I was listening to one of their local talk shows on the car radio. The speaker put out some information that got my attention. He stated that in the Los Angles area that year, the professions with the highest devorce rates were: number one----- The Police, and Fire Depts.---- and number two------- (you guessed it!) The Airline workers! -------- Surpise! Surpise!! One of the main reasons for this, at least in his reasoning, was because of the "odd hours", and "days off" that they had to work!

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ------- While vacationing in the Los Angles area a few years back, I was listening to one of their local talk shows on the car radio. The speaker put out some information that got my attention. He stated that in the Los Angles area that year, the professions with the highest devorce rates were: number one----- The Police, and Fire Depts.---- and number two------- (you guessed it!) The Airline workers! -------- Surpise! Surpise!! One of the main reasons for this, at least in his reasoning, was because of the "odd hours", and "days off" that they had to work!

Police and firemen just have to put in their 20 and go. Combine the odd hours with the lousy pay and its no wonder Airline Workers cant keep their mates.

 

[odie01]

AMP shirt day for the William Collins Tulsa base conferences on Monday 3/21.

If the twu had any balls, it would be boycotted

 

[Interested]

AMP shirt day for the William Collins Tulsa base conferences on Monday 3/21.

If the twu had any balls, it would be boycotted

If the TWU and AMP had any balls it would be boycotted.

 

[odie01]

If the TWU and AMP had any balls it would be boycotted.

Unfortunately AMP does not have the authority YET to lead its members, so we will at least make a statement by waring AMP shirts. Do you think Sam will have anything to say at the meeting?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Unfortunately AMP does not have the authority YET to lead its members, so we will at least make a statement by waring AMP shirts. Do you think Sam will have anything to say at the meeting?

I am sure Sam will say whatever the International tells him to say. My goodness! Wearing AMP shirts threatens the twu's existence!

GO AMP!

 

[Bob Owens]

I am sure Sam will say whatever the International tells him to say.

He doesnt strike me that way at all. I've never felt that what he says isnt what he believes.

 

[odie01]

AMP AFW informational meeting on April 16. Members of the Amp Steering Committee and legal will be present.

Location is the Holiday Inn Express Fort Worth 6351 North Freeway 76131.

Times to be announced.

Please forward this to all the AA title I & II contacts in your address book.

AMP website is www.AMPNATIONAL.org

AMP Facebook is www.facebook.com/AMP.AA.2010

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

He doesnt strike me that way at all. I've never felt that what he says isnt what he believes.

Thanks for the input and observation Bob. After Steve Louis who I really thought was the real deal, what with Bob Zimmerman preaching that Steve was "no burchette", only to find out that both Steve and Bob were HUGE yes men Sam kinda is guilty by association of being the Tulsa President. Time will tell.