TWU-IAM Finally Getting Ready for JCBA Negotiations

[NYer]

What makes you think our pay increases were a direct result of outsourcing? And I do not nor any line mechanic i know want to outsource any work. We have all seen the quality when those aircraft return from the heavy checks or aircraft modifications. As for the advantage turning to the line, you won't have to worry about what happens in tulle..because what airlines have done in bk is shed much OH work...TUL has more to fear what the company will do to them rather than the line guys. We would have been more than happy with GEO pay which the TUL president said NO WAY...

 
Unless I'm in a high cost city I wouldn't want GEO pay. I wouldn't want to lose pay in order to subsidize a raise for someone else. That is just a common sense approach.
 
The pay raises were in conjunction with the rest of the CBA, that is the only conclusion to make. We didn't see raises for a decade and when we did see it, it was tied to cost cuts elsewhere. All the other airlines that have more pay than we do also have less mechanics, it is a direct correlation. They pay out of one pocket with what they save from the other pocket. 
 
If you're in favor of keeping jobs then you have to also be aware that it will affect the pay rates and other benefits. Other airlines don't have high paying positions and a lot of those positions available. The higher the pay, the less jobs there are. You guys like to compare the pay rates, well if you're honest with yourselves then you will compare the entire picture, and not just what is convenient.
 
All other unions are fighting the same things, even AMFA, and it is something that needs to be acknowledged if we are to find alternatives to gain in pay and keep jobs. The biggest arguments to change the union is not that you'll get higher pay...is that you can fire the leadership is they don't do their job. Well, there will be a lot of firings because the reality of the situation is not being debated honestly. It is being done with misrepresentations, finger pointing and name calling.

 

[NYer]

The M&R numbers never hit 18000 and that's including the TWA people. The 12500 I mentioned (a rough estimate) was for Title 1 only. But the loss of jobs occurred under the TWU's watch BEFORE BK.

 
So the TWU was the only one that saw drops in their Membership over the last decade. Is that it?

 

[1AA]

Happy Presidents Day. Holiday pay right? 2.5 pay right? Union workers on straight pay today. What a concept. Sadly fellow employees still retained the holidays we lost and they do not pay union dues. Please tell me why the twu is looking out for my best interest.

 

[NYer]

Happy Presidents Day. Holiday pay right? 2.5 pay right? Union workers on straight pay today. What a concept. Sadly fellow employees still retained the holidays we lost and they do not pay union dues. Please tell me why the twu is looking out for my best interest.

 
You'd figure it would be easier to just go to an AMFA represented airline than try to vote out the TWU.
 
I mean they've been trying for more than 50 years....Just go to the AMFA airline. I'm sure there is plenty of positions available...

 

[swamt]

swamt. I'm curious about something? I'm asking this as an honest question to you? I think you are with SWA and represented by AMFA? AMFA became the bargaining rep for SWA in 2002. Did AMFA secure any contracts for their mechanics between 2002 and 2008?

I saw this online.

Southwest Airlines and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) are proud to announce that the parties have reached a tentative agreement with a four-year term. The Company is pleased with this "cost neutral" contract which delivers raises in exchange for work rule improvements and contract flexibility. The current collective bargaining agreement became amendable on August 16, 2008.

http://www.swamedia.com/releases/Southwest-Airlines-and-AMFA-Mechanics-Reach-Tentative-Agreement

So "Cost Neutral" means that at least for that contract AMFA did not gain anything in added labor expenses against SWA.

That contract became amendable late 2012. This was the last update I read from your negotiators. 
 
Following this utterly unproductive negotiation session, we advised the Company that we were going to utilize the remainder of the day and the following day to work as a Committee.
The next session is scheduled for February 19, 2015, and we will work on Maintenance Control specific items. We would like to thank those who took their time to observe these negotiations. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact your representative. We also appreciate your support.
Sincerely,
Your Negotiating Committe

http://www.amfa32.com/index.cfm?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&homeID=466724

What I'm asking and you can twist it or attack me or any other Union if you like but can you cite any examples where AMFA has come into an airline and achieved gains for their members driving the airlines costs up and are still the bargaining representative at that airline? Has AMFA been successful with the 600 members they represent at Alaska Airlines? Have they secured both higher pay and benefits and more jobs over the course of their history there?

Would you mind posting a few examples of their victories for people who may be interested in them who are readers?
 

If you have been reading here for awhile you would know of many postings that AMFA has done at SWA way better than our previous union did.  Just a few examples are;  Since AMFA has came on they have doubled the heavy lines of maint in DAL.  They have added HC protections to heavy lines, and several back shops, brought in more "C" check lines as well as more mod lines to in house maint. and added more work to back shops.  While all the other airlines were laying off and taking concessions from their employees AMFA was able to extend contracts rather than taking away from the employees.  AMFA has also nego an additional year increases at the end or final year of amendment, instead of waiting for the new contract for that final raise.  AMFA is also a very transparent union, the members actually have much much more control of the union.  Being able to attend nego's stops all the rumors and mis-information that we use to experience all the time when the teamsters were here.  All the groups at SWA are experiencing very slow nego's not just AMFA.  The company is dragging feet to assure the ROIC is met for the investors for 2014 and 2015.  Our pilots group have filed for mediation because the company was stuck on dragging their feet, our group may very easily be headed in the same direction.   I have no idea about the percentage of happy members at Alaska, however, I never heard of any negative from their side though.  There are several more.  The fiasco at NWA would have happened with any union that could have been there, however, with that said I do blame AMFA for not calling the strike sooner, they gave the company way too much time to prepare right under their noses and they took to long to react.  I really hope you guys get a good contract.  But if you want more control of your union, a mechanic majority within the union, and observing nego's, I would have to AMFA would be the better choice.  

 

[swamt]

swamt,
So far AMFA has only produced good results when not faced with any kind of adversity. The past contracts that AMFA negotiated at WN were mostly extensions of an existing contract. How many years has AMFA been negotiating under tough conditions at WN and produced nothing? The two previous negotiations under difficult conditions resulted in loss of most AMT jobs at NWA and at UAL the "meh" CBA negotiated resulted in the IBT successfully taking the membership away from AMFA.
 
Fire the TWU to get the awful track record of AMFA at UAL/NWA and no progress at WN...I'd have to say no. The APA and APFA have taken away good deals thus far and if we can just get to the table and past all of GP's jockeying for power I see a good raise for all if us here without firing the TWU and the big risk of going with AMFA.

Read post above.  And what has the ibt done at UAL since they came in?  Nothing.  They made all kinds of promises and never delivered on a single one of them.  They are the same union and still have no single seniority list done.  The ibt promised pensions, top industry contract, a quick seniority list and so on, they still have none of that.  Hence the AMFA card drive at UAL.  And as you know, we have been thru this numerous times already, it was the IAM at UAL that nego the language of the outsourcing and AMFA inherited the language when they won representation...

 

[paul1]

any body with a current usair seniority list. amt's

 

[1AA]

You'd figure it would be easier to just go to an AMFA represented airline than try to vote out the TWU.
 
I mean they've been trying for more than 50 years....Just go to the AMFA airline. I'm sure there is plenty of positions available...

So I guess your happy with straight pay today while fellow AAER'S are enjoying holiday pay or the day off celebrating a three day weekend. One does not have to leave aa for that. Wake up will you.

 

[WeAAsles]

If you have been reading here for awhile you would know of many postings that AMFA has done at SWA way better than our previous union did.  Just a few examples are;  Since AMFA has came on they have doubled the heavy lines of maint in DAL.  They have added HC protections to heavy lines, and several back shops, brought in more "C" check lines as well as more mod lines to in house maint. and added more work to back shops.  While all the other airlines were laying off and taking concessions from their employees AMFA was able to extend contracts rather than taking away from the employees.  AMFA has also nego an additional year increases at the end or final year of amendment, instead of waiting for the new contract for that final raise.  AMFA is also a very transparent union, the members actually have much much more control of the union.  Being able to attend nego's stops all the rumors and mis-information that we use to experience all the time when the teamsters were here.  All the groups at SWA are experiencing very slow nego's not just AMFA.  The company is dragging feet to assure the ROIC is met for the investors for 2014 and 2015.  Our pilots group have filed for mediation because the company was stuck on dragging their feet, our group may very easily be headed in the same direction.   I have no idea about the percentage of happy members at Alaska, however, I never heard of any negative from their side though.  There are several more.  The fiasco at NWA would have happened with any union that could have been there, however, with that said I do blame AMFA for not calling the strike sooner, they gave the company way too much time to prepare right under their noses and they took to long to react.  I really hope you guys get a good contract.  But if you want more control of your union, a mechanic majority within the union, and observing nego's, I would have to AMFA would be the better choice.  

This is admittedly very good. A refreshing change from all the other posters who can only sell the notion of joining in by bashing all the other guys. And you express what you feel the Union has done for those they represent so far.

In this post you've clearly displayed what you like about your product without expressing that it doesn't have flaws but the ideology behind it is what you feel is the major selling point.

Bravo.

 

[swamt]

This is admittedly very good. A refreshing change from all the other posters who can only sell the notion of joining in by bashing all the other guys. And you express what you feel the Union has done for those they represent so far.

In this post you've clearly displayed what you like about your product without expressing that it doesn't have flaws but the ideology behind it is what you feel is the major selling point.

Bravo.

One other major reason we at SWA replaced the ibt.  With AMFA the membership can recall and remove anyone in any position.  This has been done at SWA once already.  It is alot easier to remove an individual than it is to remove an entire union.  At the industrial unions the membership has no control of recalling officers.  This process helps keep nego's, ALR's and all National level officers to walk a straight line.  Also, there has been 3 attempts to replace AMFA at SWA.  2 by the ibt and one by the TWU, all 3 failed big time, didn't even get a kick start if you will.  Most are pretty happy with AMFA.
BTW,  I have read some comments since you asked the question.  SWA does have heavy maint.    

 

[2ndGENAMT]

One thing you have to remember is Tulsa out numbers CLT and PIT and they will vote the jobs away in CLT and PIT. Welcome to the wonderful world of the twu and local 514. Some people don't know that in this association there is a ratio that has to be adhered to. That means shut down Pit and the iam loses 400 jobs out of pit,but because of the ratio the iam loses nothing because twu has to give the iam the same number of members to the iam from another station. So the end result is the iam will not fight for pit or any other iam station because they will be getting dues money from the twu membership. HOW DO YOU LIKE YOUR ASSOCIATION NOW DUMBASS.

Or AA shows 400 TWU members the door and the Ratio is unchanged.

 

[Hackman]

This is admittedly very good. A refreshing change from all the other posters who can only sell the notion of joining in by bashing all the other guys. And you express what you feel the Union has done for those they represent so far.

In this post you've clearly displayed what you like about your product without expressing that it doesn't have flaws but the ideology behind it is what you feel is the major selling point.

Bravo.

To all TWu wanna believer rampers and the washed up former US Air stock cleck paid to represent the worthless IAm in constant nonsensical posting of IAm industrial union drivel and tripe: 
 
We, the FAA licensed AMT's don't care about your opinions on what union we the AMT's chose to represent us. The failed TWu, the failed IAm, and the failed IBt are all yours, you can have all of them. You have NO say in our AMT craft and class decisions. NONE. 
 
Like the pilots and F/A's, we the AMT's, and we alone, will decide at our own chosing who will represent our craft and class.
 
The company unionism must be gone from the AMT's careers.

 

[700UW]

So go get AMFA, you havent been able too.
 
And this is a message board, its an exchange of information, facts, debates etc...
 
Is that too hard to understand?
 
And its all about class and craft, utility, cleaners, gse, plant etc....

 

[WeAAsles]

To all TWu wanna believer rampers and the washed up former US Air stock cleck paid to represent the worthless IAm in constant nonsensical posting of IAm industrial union drivel and tripe: 
 
We, the FAA licensed AMT's don't care about your opinions on what union we the AMT's chose to represent us. The failed TWu, the failed IAm, and the failed IBt are all yours, you can have all of them. You have NO say in our AMT craft and class decisions. NONE. 
 
Like the pilots and F/A's, we the AMT's, and we alone, will decide at our own chosing who will represent our craft and class.
 
The company unionism must be gone from the AMT's careers.

Well Gene:

Thank you for your comment. Since this is an open Forum I thought I should let you know that I don't care what your opinions of my opinions are. Nope doesn't concern me in the slightest. I'm gonna put em out there whenever I feel like it and if that disturbs you well, Cest La Vie.

 Me h34r: You :angry2:

 

[NYer]

So I guess your happy with straight pay today while fellow AAER'S are enjoying holiday pay or the day off celebrating a three day weekend. One does not have to leave aa for that. Wake up will you.

 
I'd rather keep my sick accruals deposited into my sick bank, which other "AAER'S" lost this January. They're now on a use it or lose it package.....no payouts, no rollovers.
 
As a matter of fact, they also go to a "use it or lose it" vacation model in which they take their vacation the same year the accrue it and if you don't take it you lose it...no payouts, no rollovers.
 
On the other hand, they sure are lucky they get an extra vacation day..... =/ (oh brother!)