TWU-IAM Finally Getting Ready for JCBA Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

 Ok so your buddies are NOT exactly mechanics...... Why don't you ask them who they blame NOW for outsourcing? AMFA is not on the premises. Are they happy just to have jobs? Where are they willing to draw the line in givebacks? 

Dude TWU didn't corner the market on givebacks. APA, APFA, AFA, ALPA, CWA, IAM, IBT, Non Union, Management, Support Staff, Vendors, Creditors, Stock Holders, Lease Holders, Banks (Who am I forgetting?) all had givebacks as well since (gulp) deregulation and the intervening years in between.

Give me a solution how to stop it when you have Union members voting for the very politicians who want to slit their throats? How about rampant apathy? Tell me how do you argue against the apathetic members who are happy enough with their Flat Screens and I Phones?

You tell me man?

Oh and I have buddies who ARE exactly mechanics (As you classify them)

 

[MetalMover]

Dude TWU didn't corner the market on givebacks. APA, APFA, AFA, ALPA, CWA, IAM, IBT, Non Union, Management, Support Staff, Vendors, Creditors, Stock Holders, Lease Holders, Banks (Who am I forgetting?) all had givebacks as well since (gulp) deregulation and the intervening years in between.

Give me a solution how to stop it when you have Union members voting for the very politicians who want to slit their throats? How about rampant apathy? Tell me how do you argue against the apathetic members who are happy enough with their Flat Screens and I Phones?

You tell me man?

Oh and I have buddies who ARE exactly mechanics (As you classify them)

OKAY! Then why the fear of AMFA since EVERY UNION HAS AGREED TO GIVEBACKS? WHY IS AMFA ANY DIFFERENT..MAN????????????????
 
The TWU started the concession train in 1983......They set the stage for the industry. Long before BK.

 

[WeAAsles]

OKAY! Then why the fear of AMFA since EVERY UNION HAS AGREED TO GIVEBACKS? WHY IS AMFA ANY DIFFERENT..MAN????????????????
 
The TWU started the concession train in 1983......They set the stage for the industry. Long before BK.

I was 18 in 1983. What the hell do I know why those probably dead negotiators brought that back and why the membership passed it. Jeez man 33 years ago I was riding in my friend Danno's Skylark convertible blasting Van Halen and Y and T trying to pick up metal chicks.

Look back just a little bit in the thread and I told you what people I talk to think about AMFA. It's up to you guys to convince them they're wrong and break out their pens to sign.

You should have always been trying to sell people on the AMFA ideology. Not always trying to say that the other guy sucks more than we do.

That ain't why I sign up for cable.

 

[MetalMover]

I was 18 in 1983. What the hell do I know why those probably dead negotiators brought that back and why the membership passed it. Jeez man 33 years ago I was riding in my friend Danno's Skylark convertible blasting Van Halen and Y and T trying to pick up metal chicks.

Look back just a little bit in the thread and I told you what people I talk to think about AMFA. It's up to you guys to convince them they're wrong and break out their pens to sign.

You should have always been trying to sell people on the AMFA ideology. Not always trying to say that the other guy sucks more than we do.

That ain't why I sign up for cable.

The bottom line is the TWU started it all. Way before bankruptcy might I add. There was no gun pointed at their heads. They were and still are notorious for not only pitting work group against work group but mechanic against mechanic. The line people have had to suck it up when it came contract time to the benefit of OH. It has been the same pattern contract after contract. We were denied GEO pay because we would have been making more than TUL. Never mind TUL has been comfortable economically to live. The response has been, "If you don't like the way things are, move to TUL" The majority TUL did not want to line to get anything more than they did. So I welcome those getting laid off to high cost areas like NY ORD and LAX......Yet I still do not want to see outsourcing regardless of how TUL felt towards the line. But they are going to bear the brunt of change because that is the future. New generation aircraft that have extensive time to the heaviest check. When that day comes, the aircraft go and new ones come in. The retirements of the MD80 are hitting them hard as that also takes the engine work away as well. Add in the 757 retirements..Well you can figure out the rest. So the OH people and "related" have to fear attrition more than they do AMFA and the line people.

 

[xUT]

WeAA,
Under AMFA's watch at AS, AS closed their OAK Heavy Maintenance Base, cutting 250 jobs and outsourcing the work.

Sure, just don't mention how the UA Indy facility was closed in one day and put over 2000 M&R on no pay.
Then later closed UA in OAK as well.
Guess under whose watch that happened?
Hint: IAM

 

[WeAAsles]

The bottom line is the TWU started it all. Way before bankruptcy might I add. There was no gun pointed at their heads. They were and still are notorious for not only pitting work group against work group but mechanic against mechanic.

Was that the TWU or the negotiators chosen by their membership who supported what they wanted? You task your President with negotiating what your wants are too don't you?

The line people have had to suck it up when it came contract time to the benefit of OH. It has been the same pattern contract after contract. We were denied GEO pay because we would have been making more than TUL. Never mind TUL has been comfortable economically to live. The response has been, "If you don't like the way things are, move to TUL" The majority TUL did not want to line to get anything more than they did. So I welcome those getting laid off to high cost areas like NY ORD and LAX......Yet I still do not want to see outsourcing regardless of how TUL felt towards the line.

Good. This is what you should be letting them know and trying to express to them. Line mechanics do not want to hurt O/H and related Brothers and Sisters. 

But they are going to bear the brunt of change because that is the future. New generation aircraft that have extensive time to the heaviest check. When that day comes, the aircraft go and new ones come in. The retirements of the MD80 are hitting them hard as that also takes the engine work away as well. Add in the 757 retirements..Well you can figure out the rest. So the OH people and "related" have to fear attrition "more" than they do AMFA and the line people.

"More" implies that they should have some measure of fear IMO. Read the rest of what you just wrote.

"The line people have had to suck it up when it came contract time to the benefit of OH. It has been the same pattern contract after contract. We were denied GEO pay because we would have been making more than TUL. Never mind TUL has been comfortable economically to live. The response has been, "If you don't like the way things are, move to TUL" The majority TUL did not want to line to get anything more than they did. So I welcome those getting laid off to high cost areas like NY ORD and LAX"

That sounds a bit like a vendetta to me. A bit of glee in knowing that it's now going to be their turn to "suck it up" Maybe they do have it coming? I don't know? That's up to an individual perspective? Maybe if they had relented to GEO pay the line guys would be more sympathetic? Maybe not? People are greedy no matter how much they make. But it absolutely doesn't help to sell your argument for your union of choice.

You guys will probably have the numbers very soon if you don't already. What you do with that power will be up to you? The majority decides against the minority.

 

[700UW]

One thing you have to remember the PMUS guys have a lot of jobs in CLT, and PIT Heavy Maintenance, they wont vote their jobs away.
 
One thing you all forget about.

 

[767 mechanic]

One thing you have to remember is Tulsa out numbers CLT and PIT and they will vote the jobs away in CLT and PIT. Welcome to the wonderful world of the twu and local 514. Some people don't know that in this association there is a ratio that has to be adhered to. That means shut down Pit and the iam loses 400 jobs out of pit,but because of the ratio the iam loses nothing because twu has to give the iam the same number of members to the iam from another station. So the end result is the iam will not fight for pit or any other iam station because they will be getting dues money from the twu membership. HOW DO YOU LIKE YOUR ASSOCIATION NOW DUMBASS.

 

[Real tired]

One thing you have to remember is Tulsa out numbers CLT and PIT and they will vote the jobs away in CLT and PIT. Welcome to the wonderful world of the twu and local 514. Some people don't know that in this association there is a ratio that has to be adhered to. That means shut down Pit and the iam loses 400 jobs out of pit,but because of the ratio the iam loses nothing because twu has to give the iam the same number of members to the iam from another station. So the end result is the iam will not fight for pit or any other iam station because they will be getting dues money from the twu membership. HOW DO YOU LIKE YOUR ASSOCIATION NOW DUMBASS.

My number one fear, and didn't even have to say it.  Thanks.
 
But tell the average PIT guy that, and the reply will be, "yeah right, they've been closing PIT for 25 years."  Or, "endless work, just as it's always been."

 

[MetalMover]

My number one fear, and didn't even have to say it.  Thanks.
 
But tell the average PIT guy that, and the reply will be, "yeah right, they've been closing PIT for 25 years."  Or, "endless work, just as it's always been."

400 people left in PIT?? What was the highest number at that base? And they are still in denial?

 

[MetalMover]

"More" implies that they should have some measure of fear IMO. Read the rest of what you just wrote.

"The line people have had to suck it up when it came contract time to the benefit of OH. It has been the same pattern contract after contract. We were denied GEO pay because we would have been making more than TUL. Never mind TUL has been comfortable economically to live. The response has been, "If you don't like the way things are, move to TUL" The majority TUL did not want to line to get anything more than they did. So I welcome those getting laid off to high cost areas like NY ORD and LAX"

That sounds a bit like a vendetta to me. A bit of glee in knowing that it's now going to be their turn to "suck it up" Maybe they do have it coming? I don't know? That's up to an individual perspective? Maybe if they had relented to GEO pay the line guys would be more sympathetic? Maybe not? People are greedy no matter how much they make. But it absolutely doesn't help to sell your argument for your union of choice.

You guys will probably have the numbers very soon if you don't already. What you do with that power will be up to you? The majority decides against the minority.

Since when does recalling historical events equate to a vendetta? You are missing the point that TUL voted what they felt was best for them based on what the TWU wanted in order to pass concessionary contracts. At the end of the day jobs were still lost, numbers decreased and outsourcing increased. Tell me something, with this wonderful association, who do you think survives in terms of base work? LAA base or LUS bases? 

 

[xUT]

Sure, just don't mention how the UA Indy facility was closed in one day and put over 2000 M&R on no pay.
Then later closed UA in OAK as well.
Guess under whose watch that happened?
Hint: IAM

 
 

One thing you have to remember the PMUS guys have a lot of jobs in CLT, and PIT Heavy Maintenance, they wont vote their jobs away.
 
One thing you all forget about.

 
Couldn't address the iam failings.
Typical...

 

[WeAAsles]

Since when does recalling historical events equate to a vendetta? You are missing the point that TUL voted what they felt was best for them based on what the TWU wanted in order to pass concessionary contracts.

How do you get that? TUL Members voted for what they thought best suited them as much as you would have made the same choice what you thought was best for you.

What, did the International President go to every member and say "You better vote for this or else?" or "Vote for this so you can screw the line mechanics?"

At the end of the day jobs were still lost, numbers decreased and outsourcing increased. Tell me something, with this wonderful association, who do you think survives in terms of base work? LAA base or LUS bases?

What does the Association have to do with any bases either closing or surviving? Is the company planning on turning over operational decisions to the association? Eventually it's not going to be LAA or LUS people. Everyone will just be AA. 

 

[Vortilon]

Alright, so what if maybe the data "lumps" in every "Non Licensed" "Member" into what I guess you consider to be "your" class and craft? If the NMB recognizes them to be a part of the bargaining unit, shouldn't they count as well? Or would you rather segregate them as part of the overall "in house" maintenance costs that the airline needs to provide?

I'm sure that the company would love nothing better than to outsource all those unlicensed jobs your group represents to the lowest bidder they can find (Bet you wouldn't mind that either) Then of course you licensed guys could go after some of those cost savings the company is getting.

And you wonder why some "persons" don't want to sign those cards you guys have tried to hand to them.

 

 
I have never advocated outsourcing jobs of any type.  Back when NWA's AMTs went on strike; because if they voted YES, 52% - of the membership would have been put to the street.  Guess which types were slated for layoff?  At AA, we call them YES voters.  Did NWA's AMFA represented AMTs throw them under the bus?   I think you know the answer, they went down together.  I have never seen unity like that at the TWU!  BTW, NWA never recovered from that strike.  If not for DAL absorbing them, NWA's fate was uncertain at best.
 
As far as lumping the unlicensed types in our classification, yeah I'm no fan of that.  It has never been beneficial to AMTs.  Having these YES voters watering down our votes.  This is a typical TWU tactic to not only maintain dues flow, but it serves to make it harder for the AMTs to get a real aircraft mechanics union in.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
I have never advocated outsourcing jobs of any type.  Back when NWA's AMTs went on strike; because if they voted YES, 52% - of the membership would have been put to the street.  Guess which types were slated for layoff?  At AA, we call them YES voters.  Did NWA's AMFA represented AMTs throw them under the bus?   I think you know the answer, they went down together.  I have never seen unity like that at the TWU!  BTW, NWA never recovered from that strike.  If not for DAL absorbing them, NWA's fate was uncertain at best.

After plenty of searches on the topic and reading many of the conversations on here the conclusion I draw is that blame for the entire debacle can be laid at the feet of many different parties. There is a lesson to be learned in there somewhere? Any conversation on the issue is subjective and debatable.
 
 
As far as lumping the unlicensed types in our classification, yeah I'm no fan of that.  It has never been beneficial to AMTs.  Having these YES voters watering down our votes.  This is a typical TWU tactic to not only maintain dues flow, but it serves to make it harder for the AMTs to get a real aircraft mechanics union in.

Your yes voters are members too. For the most part I think they live in geographic locations where they were able to at least survive on the 03 concessions even if it did leave a bad taste in the mouth. I lived in DFW at the time and abstained from choosing. I left that choice in the hands of the members since I was conflicted. High COL members have never been a doubt in my mind as to their direction against givebacks, emphatic no. But the membership is not just on the East coast there brother.

The concessions just before the BK I was going with a no vote. Not because I wasn't sure the company was going to go BK either way but because I couldn't in conscience vote 80 medically restricted people onto the street. Now the BK vote was a yes for me. I didn't need the TWU to tell me what the likely outcome would be if no had passed since I could read the history right here on the net. No voters disagree with all that history, SMH. But as far as it being a TWU or leadership tactic, that too is subjective.

I think if we had GEO pay or a COLA in our contracts then some of those past decisions would have been easier to make. I personally find it shameful that members in LOW COL areas are against the idea of providing relief to brothers and sisters in HIGH COL areas. I think there's a lot of animosity because of that and would really like to FINALLY see that addressed in the upcoming JCBA talks. 

Anyway, sorry I went off on a little tangent.