TWU-IAM Association thread

[Bob Owens]

Metal I want to give the Association a chance. I have very high future expectations for it and would like to see the two Unions work even more closely on issues and initiatives that help ALL of us. I don't want to hear that they just got us our JCBA's and said see you when we need to do this again. You guys have a lot of issues on your plate especially when it comes to all of the outsourcing to other countries that the work is not being sufficiently supervised by the FAA. I've watched those programs and they scare the crap out of me for getting on a plane anymore. I wish there was a website where I could put in a tail number and view the Maintenance record on that plane. I see a major catastrophe waiting to happen. 

I highlighted those two words in red because it means something. There were other people running the TWU when all that stuff happened to ALL of us. "Maybe" a little more underhanded and dirty tricks were played on you guys? (Line) "Maybe"??? But there are people who took over that at least IMO you can "listen" to? Trust needs to be earned and that doesn't happen overnight. I really don't believe that the guys in office right now would have done this Association without a vote of the members? I have to think that you know what happened at the last convention? I'm sure that you know the people who were removed after that? (Not knocking them but stating the reality)

Anyway the proof as they say will be in the pudding. I won't say I told you so because whatever eventually comes to sit on your desk may not be what you find acceptable? The vote of the members will decide that even if and I'm sure, some will come on here after and say "The Sheep voted it in"

Why not merge Unions? I would find that more acceptable than being shared like a commodity between the two organizations. We know the answer to that, because this deal is about them, not us. Even if we get a great deal, I want a single Union that represents us as one, not one that keeps us divided. Not one where if I move I belong to a completely different Union. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Why not merge Unions? I would find that more acceptable than being shared like a commodity between the two organizations. We know the answer to that, because this deal is about them, not us. Even if we get a great deal, I want a single Union that represents us as one, not one that keeps us divided. Not one where if I move I belong to a completely different Union.

They already tried that remember? CWA. It didn't go over very well.

 

[Bob Owens]

They already tried that remember? CWA. It didn't go over very well.

Wonder why?
 
Little wasn't doing it for the good of the membership, he was doing it for the good of Jim Little.  The CWA made no sense, ATU, would make sense for the Transit side, IBT would make sense, even the dying IAM would make more sense than the CWA. Perhaps its an AFL vs CIO thing.  IAM and IBT have AFL roots while the TWU and CWA have CIO roots. 
 
 
IAM- Unlike the Knights of Labor who accepted everyone, Talbot’s union (IAM) consisted mainly of all-white U.S. born citizens. The union excluded blacks, women, and non- citizens.
 
At first the AFL didnt want the IAM because of their elitist, racist, misogynistic stance on membership. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Wonder why?
 
Little wasn't doing it for the good of the membership, he was doing it for the good of Jim Little.  The CWA made no sense, ATU, would make sense for the Transit side, IBT would make sense, even the dying IAM would make more sense than the CWA. Perhaps its an AFL vs CIO thing.  IAM and IBT have AFL roots while the TWU and CWA have CIO roots. 
 
 
IAM- Unlike the Knights of Labor who accepted everyone, Talbot’s union (IAM) consisted mainly of all-white U.S. born citizens. The union excluded blacks, women, and non- citizens.
 
At first the AFL didnt want the IAM because of their elitist, racist, misogynistic stance on membership. 

I did read that story. The IAM started in the South where the TWU has its roots in the greatest (All inclusive, eventually) city in the world. The South has never lost that mindset as we read about almost daily.

But anyway. Are you advocating that you would be ok to see the TWU absorbed into the IAM one day? Or are you now advocating the airline division? I'm confused now?

That scenario would have to be the IAM only because they are bigger still than us and have more money and probably political influence.

Usairways did somewhat take over AA but the larger name was kept because the brand has more value to International flyers.

 

[WeAAsles]

Or ready for it? IAMATWU. "International Association of Machinists, Aerospace and Transport Workers Union"

Nah can't happen. Too many leather chairs would have to go. Well a guy can always dream I guess.

 

[proAMT]

How can the TWU/IAM Alliance claim to represent the memberships best interest when it has been approved by the federal government and the airline but not the people it is supposed to represent? Who is this organization accountable to if it is not accountable to the people it is supposed to represent?

NO VOTE NO PEACE

An election unites-no election divides

Reunite the membership, become legitimate, fulfill the promise made to the membership, lets vote!

 

[enough already]

http://aero-news.net/emailarticle.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=fa85750e-f6fb-493e-bb51-a19caf42fbf4

 

[bigjets]

My biggest concern is the term of the agreement. I don't want anything that would lock us into bottom of the industry like our Pilots and Flight Attendants (when you factor in PS) for five more years. Whatever happened to the two year contracts we used to get? Thats the way to go especially now because our contracts guarantee NOTHING, the carrier always has the option to go C-11, but it does lock us in. The contracts provide guarantees to the company, not to us. There is nothing stopping AA from filing for BK even when they are pulling down $4billion in profits and the clowns on the bench in NYC will pretty much rubber stamp anything , with few exceptions, that the creditors committee approves of.

What concerns me is that the loud mouths will convince just enough of the dreamers into not signing a good contract, because of their own sense of right and wrong.

 

[WeAAsles]

What concerns me is that the loud mouths will convince just enough of the dreamers into not signing a good contract, because of their own sense of right and wrong.

I'm sure they're getting the backdrops to those videos ready before they have even a clue to what's actually going to be offered and finally accepted by their own elected negotiators.

 

[1AA]

Oh we know what is going to be offered or forced upon us. No guessing for the M&E folks.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

What concerns me is that the loud mouths will convince just enough of the dreamers into not signing a good contract, because of their own sense of right and wrong.

A good contract for the TWU leaders who own the contract is one that will get 50% +1 of the vote and doesn't impact their dues flow!

It takes a special kind of Stupid to think that treating one group differently than another who are both under the same agreement will work. The retiree medical is what killed the 2010 TA, you just don't tell one group they can keep IT and their sick bank while another has to pay for it with their earned sick bank.

That is like telling one of your offspring to clean their room while the other can leave it a mess.

Several on these forums are a Special Kind Of Stupid who believe some Vote No coalition was responsible for the TA failure.

 

[Vortilon]

A good contract for the TWU leaders who own the contract is one that will get 50% +1 of the vote and doesn't impact their dues flow!

It takes a special kind of Stupid to think that treating one group differently than another who are both under the same agreement will work. The retiree medical is what killed the 2010 TA, you just don't tell one group they can keep IT and their sick bank while another has to pay for it with their earned sick bank.

That is like telling one of your offspring to clean their room while the other can leave it a mess.

Several on these forums are a Special Kind Of Stupid who believe some Vote No coalition was responsible for the TA failure.

 
 
Well Put....

 

[WeAAsles]

A good contract for the TWU leaders who own the contract is one that will get 50% +1 of the vote and doesn't impact their dues flow!
It takes a special kind of Stupid to think that treating one group differently than another who are both under the same agreement will work. The retiree medical is what killed the 2010 TA, you just don't tell one group they can keep IT and their sick bank while another has to pay for it with their earned sick bank.
That is like telling one of your offspring to clean their room while the other can leave it a mess.
Several on these forums are a Special Kind Of Stupid who believe some Vote No coalition was responsible for the TA failure.

I was going to vote no in 2010 also. Didn't need a vote no coalition to educate me though. I was only 45. Simple as that.

But it does amaze me now how you're all ready to shoot "whatever" it winds up being down in flames before the two sides have even gotten in the room yet.

Battered wife syndrome?

 

[WeAAsles]

If to me what is eventually agreed to sux beyond belief I'll advocate against it and vote no and hope others agree with me. I'll easily live with the industry average till 2018 and go from there if I have to (I doubt it will be horrible though)

There are a few items in my group I think they may want or go after but I'll wait to see what the finished product winds up being before I judge it.

 

[Buck]

Oh we know what is going to be offered or forced upon us. No guessing for the M&E folks.

As one of those M&E folks, I would like to hear your opinion what you think we are going to be offered or have forced upon us.
 
I believe that Delta+7% is what the company is said, I guess that mean s $43 and some change with 50% outsourcing. 
 
Of course the TWU will intervene to keep as many employed, which has it's merit. However historically, there will be a cost.
 
The company will get what it wants,it normally does, the TWU will get to keep it's membership up and it will be the mechanics who will lose again.
 
The IAM they will attempt to protect their pension.
 
If the negotiated language is right, the mechanics can have their money but the IAMPF will be in the contract.