TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[Vortilon]

If you took in the numbers for the amount of work you had just prior to the bankruptcy, meaning the OH work in TULSA you would find that you were at the top of the industry in total compensation being gained against AA.

If that work had been given up in 2003 and equaled to the rest of the industry your per hour base (the survivors) would have been more than Delta, Northwest, United, Continental and USAIR. Do those jobs hold any value to you?

I would love to know if the majority of those who voted no for that association poll are line mechanics? Are any of those pollsters OH mechanics? Are you?

 
 
What are you talking about?  We gave up all the concessions the company wanted in exchange for keeping more people on staff in Tulsa, and they were eventually laid off anyway.  Not gonna fall for that crap again. 
 
This is why baggage handlers should not have anything to do with M&R negotiations.

 

[WeAAsles]

I don't see how you can include "work" into compensation. 
Compensation includes hourly wage, overtime, holiday pay and yes even vacations. What OH work gets done in TULSA has no bearing on my paycheck, Sorry I don;t agree with your logic.

Of course work is factored into your compensation. If the company doesn't have enough work because of trimming or outsourcing jobs or work, eventually you no longer have a job going up the ladder once it get's to your seniority. 
 
I did hear that some out there were advocating during the BK that Tulsa mechanics should not be able to bump the line mechanics? Now under that scenario you would probably be one of the survivors of the massacre.

 

[MetalMover]

Of course work is factored into your compensation. If the company doesn't have enough work because of trimming or outsourcing jobs or work, eventually you no longer have a job going up the ladder once it get's to your seniority. 
 
I did hear that some out there were advocating during the BK that Tulsa mechanics should not be able to bump the line mechanics? Now under that scenario you would probably be one of the survivors of the massacre.

Actually they could shut TULE completely and I will still be a survivor. But am I advocating that? NOI!
I don't wish to see any work eliminated. But what I object to is this illusion of contracts past where we needed to give more concessions in order to save OH jobs.
 I wonder how the TUL machine would have reacted if asked to give concessions in order to save LINE jobs?

 

[Vortilon]

 
Since the "25 or so" guys you asked in the ready room don't care about the Preferential Hiring that would help Members get back on the job or back home, then I guess it shouldn't mean anything to those that it helps. After, a union isn't about helping others...it's just about what it can do for you and those other "25 or so" guys in the ready room.
 
For others, it is important that there is assistance for those guys to get back on the job and not have to wait for a JCBA or a representational battle that a few seem to cherish.
 
....And by your comments, it seems you're a Conservative.....if that's accurate, then it really explains many things.

 
 
Yeah you're funny...not.
 
As for you Karl Marx like comment what the union can do and who for.  It has been very evident to the line AMTs, who the TWU is against.
 
Nobody is against some mechanism that allows people back on the job - Just depends on what was asked for in exchange.  The majority of us are tired of the TWU writing checks against AMT pay and benefits for their political gain.
 
As much as we pay in dues, you would think the International parasites would be able to cobble something together for these displaced workers you speak of.  BTW how many actually would currently benefit from this preferential hiring program?

 

[WeAAsles]

 
 
What are you talking about?  We gave up all the concessions the company wanted in exchange for keeping more people on staff in Tulsa, and they were eventually laid off anyway.  Not gonna fall for that crap again. 
 
This is why baggage handlers should not have anything to do with M&R negotiations.

New planes.

Anyway I just want to hear some of you guys fess up and I would get off this thread because I would have no point in being here knowing what it's about.

I want to hear this

"Look I don't really care if other people have work because I would rather have less jobs and more pay instead. I live in New York and it's incredibly expensive here and I can't get ahead. I need more money and if that means sacrificing jobs in TUL or Alliance or Title 2 then so be it. I can't worry about other people because I can't afford it and I have my own family to be concerned about"

Travis was the only one who said something like this a few months back and I commended him and gave him a green for his honesty. I may not agree with his position but I respected him for having the balls to be honest at least. Can you say what you want and be honest about it?

BTW knock down what I get paid and there might be more for you as well? It's ok I'm not a part of a Class and Craft really. I'm a part of a group.

 

[WeAAsles]

Actually they could shut TULE completely and I will still be a survivor. But am I advocating that? NOI!
I don't wish to see any work eliminated. But what I object to is this illusion of contracts past where we needed to give more concessions in order to save OH jobs.

Honesty be honest. What do you really think? Go ahead and say it. And it wasn't an illusion. New planes create less work.


I wonder how the TUL machine would have reacted if asked to give concessions in order to save LINE jobs?

They would have looked after there own best interests first. I've talked about this before. I don't think someone working in TUL should be making the same wages as a guy working on the East coast.  They should have shifted some of their compensation your way a long time ago but it would have failed a vote by the members had it even been attempted. And the President who agreed to it would have been chucked out on his keester.

 

[MetalMover]

New planes.

Anyway I just want to hear some of you guys fess up and I would get off this thread because I would have no point in being here knowing what it's about.

I want to hear this

"Look I don't really care if other people have work because I would rather have less jobs and more pay instead. I live in New York and it's incredibly expensive here and I can't get ahead. I need more money and if that means sacrificing jobs in TUL or Alliance or Title 2 then so be it. I can't worry about other people because I can't afford it and I have my own family to be concerned about"

Travis was the only one who said something like this a few months back and I commended him and gave him a green for his honesty. I may not agree with his position but I respected him for having the balls to be honest at least. Can you say what you want and be honest about it?

BTW knock down what I get paid and there might be more for you as well? It's ok I'm not a part of a Class and Craft really. I'm a part of a group.

How about this idea? Stop knocking AMFA and let us choose our own destiny? This way your work group doesn't have to be weighed down my M&R!  Fair enough?

 

[WeAAsles]

A guy living in Tulsa OK on $50.000 per year would need this much to live in Queens NY.
 
$84,658
Price difference in New York (Queens), NY

• Groceries33%more
• Housing250%more
• Utilities39%more
• Transportation22%more
• Health Care13%more
  
  http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/
   

 

[MetalMover]

 

Actually they could shut TULE completely and I will still be a survivor. But am I advocating that? NOI!
I don't wish to see any work eliminated. But what I object to is this illusion of contracts past where we needed to give more concessions in order to save OH jobs.

Honesty. But it wasn't an illusion. New planes create less work.


I wonder how the TUL machine would have reacted if asked to give concessions in order to save LINE jobs?

They would have looked after there own best interests first. I've talked about this before. I don't think someone working in TUL should be making the same wages as a guy working on the East coast.  They should have shifted some of their compensation your way a long time ago but it would have failed a vote by the members had it even been attempted. And the President who agreed to it would have been chucked out on his keester.

 

Again, I am referring to contracts long ago beginning with 1983. 
As for geographical pay, that was tried and shot down not only by the OH crowd but MIA as well who weren't getting what the NY or CA boys were.
I can't tell how many DECADES I have heard "If you don't like it, move to Tulsa."
 
You see, I am old school. I never believed in the division between OH and the line. I believe that all mechanics should be paid the same. But the TWU created this TUL machine where they had the "roll call" vote to force any and everything down our throats. The line people were more than happy with GEO pay added and NOT at the expense of the OH guys to take a reduction.

 

[WeAAsles]

How about this idea? Stop knocking AMFA and let us choose our own destiny? This way your work group doesn't have to be weighed down my M&R!  Fair enough?

You guys start to fess up to what you're really about and what you want and I'll hitch a ride out of here. And you aren't weighting me down, I'm weighting you down. I'm a Baggage Handler making $65,000 a year in pay and benefits. If I was making far less or what the average Baggage handler in the US was making there would be more money in the till for you.

Don't you want some of my money?

 

[WeAAsles]

Again, I am referring to contracts long ago beginning with 1983. 
As for geographical pay, that was tried and shot down not only by the OH crowd but MIA as well who weren't getting what the NY or CA boys were.
I can't tell how many DECADES I have heard "If you don't like it, move to Tulsa."

And I heard the same CHIT from A Holes living in DFW as well about my friends who were still in NY. 12 years hearing it and advocating that you should make more. That's why I'm in MIA now. I support a COLA for High cost areas.

 

[MetalMover]

You guys start to fess up to what you're really about and what you want and I'll hitch a ride out of here. And you aren't weighting me down, I'm weighting you down. I'm a Baggage Handler making $65,000 a year in pay and benefits. If I was making far less or what the average Baggage handler in the US was making there would be more money in the till for you.

Don't you want some of my money?

Actually no iI do not. I say whatever one work group can get for themselves, more power to them. Each work group should negotiate on their own merits and industry comparisons,.
I want comparable compensations to my peers at the other major airlines. What another work group gets is no business of my work group.
The TWU has been too eager to sell ALL its members out in exchange for their lucrative  deals with AA past. 

 

[MetalMover]

And I heard the same CHIT from A Holes living in DFW as well about my friends who were still in NY. 12 years hearing it and advocating that you should make more. That's why I'm in MIA now. I support a COLA for High cost areas.

I admit that there are those that truly don't mind GEO pay. But apparently it was enough to get shot down.

 

[WeAAsles]

Actually no iI do not. I say whatever one work group can get for themselves, more power to them. Each work group should negotiate on their own merits and industry comparisons,.
I want comparable compensations to my peers at the other major airlines. What another work group gets is no business of my work group.
The TWU has been too eager to sell ALL its members out in exchange for their lucrative  deals with AA past. 

Ok but you have to understand that the more others make and the more jobs there are (Labor costs for AA) the less you are going to make in overall personal compensation. That's a fact.

 

[WeAAsles]

I admit that there are those that truly don't mind GEO pay. But apparently it was enough to get shot down.

Because the majority of people are greedy and don't care about anyone but themselves. The majority voted no to it so what are they then?