TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[700UW]

 
700UW
 
I see it's ok for you to name call when you get cornered.  WHY is that?
 
Double standard don't you think?

Just using your standard.
 
Why dont you tell Josh not to post, he claims he is just a passenger, and you asked/told him not to post, yet you dont say anything to him when he does?
 
Dont you need to go post and beg for more cards since you wont get enough?

 

[TWU informer]

Just stopped by to read and see if there were any new developments and when the NMB might figure out how to cater to the money for access to Government influence.
 
All I see is the playground is still active with the children.
 
"YOUR GRANDMA WEARS COMBAT BOOTS"
 
Everyone of your Grandma's
 
!!!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I see that this thread has gone astray as most of the others,  A few pages back I asked WeAAsles about his comments of the Local Prez. going to the IAM WIP center.
 
From the last few pages here It seems that most of the Posters are either Not AA or US employees. The few that are how is all this going to effect you when the merger between the TWU and IAM happens?
 
What is Fleets plan, How are you guys planning on dealing with the integration of employees in your title groups.
 
Are those of you that will be working for The Merged AA just going to sit back and let the TWU/IAM Association just happen and what ever the TWO top boys say is that going to be OK with all of YOU?
 
The CWA will have nothing to do with this so why talk about that here? Is that going to effect your class and craft? Some of you have baited AMT's into comment calling us elitist
 
Isn't what's going to happen here at AA any concern to any of YOU?
 
You have made comments about how the mechanics are flawed in their thinking to attempt to bring AMFA here so Tell us what is Fleets plan for this Association.
 
What questions have you asked the IAM/TWU Leadership on how this is going to effect you?. 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

The plan as I see it is to do what they can to disrupt and defeat the AMFA drive by cluttering the boards with useless information and insults.  Fleet service looks down on us (AANOTOK is the exception), but does not want us to leave their union.  But I am an AMT so of course I know nothing. 

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Just using your standard.
 
Why dont you tell Josh not to post, he claims he is just a passenger, and you asked/told him not to post, yet you dont say anything to him when he does?
 
Dont you need to go post and beg for more cards since you wont get enough?

 
700UW
 
My standard don't you have one of your own?
 
You say you have done so much you must have one of your own?
 
I have not said anything to Josh since he has kept his word, This is NOT an AMT or AMFA thread. its about the association and what is going to happen to each and every title group.
 
It's NOT about YOU either, or all the stuff you say you have done. No One cares.
But you take most of these threads that way. Or turn it into a circus of BS.
 
It's about the Association and the joining of these two industrial unions.
 
I now have asked several times what is the fleets plan and how is this going to effect them.? If any Stores guys are reading this how is this going to effect your work group as well?
 
Your an X stores clerk/utility, also an X USAir employee, an X IAM wanttobe with so much Love for the IAM, why don't you get actual employees to think about how all of this is going to effect them. Their futures, your career is over in the airlines, so you have said but you can't let it go.
 
many here are still working and need to get the information that is going to effect them and the families they support.
 
I don't need to beg for cards those who ask for one I will gladly give one too. I want what is best for my class and craft. If we get the cards this time or not that will soon known.
 
I have asked guys to do the home work on their own and even given them some direction to aid in the search for info. If they are too Lazy to use Google or Bing or any other search engine available to them to read what's going on and as well sort thru all the BS you and other have put here. it will be on them.
 
My career is coming to an end, I had hoped to remove the TWU before I retire, but with this merger and all the crap I may be gone before its all said and done.
 
I am hoping that the IAM/TWU/AA have not lobbied the NMB to approve this without a vote. I hope that the NMB isn't for sale.
 
Hoping for a VOTE to stop this Association and Bring AMFA in as the Bargaining union for the Mechanics at Both US/AA.

 

[southwind]

Why are you mentally challenged and cant comprehend?
 
Pay your bet.

Stop changing the subject!

 

[southwind]

The plan as I see it is to do what they can to disrupt and defeat the AMFA drive by cluttering the boards with useless information and insults. 

 
But that what 700 does best, hell, he's on every topic here promoting the IAM, even though he says he has nothing to do with them.

 

[WeAAsles]

A few pages back I asked WeAAsles about his comments of the Local Prez. going to the IAM WIP center.

Sorry. Sometimes I get lost in doing other things and of course work that it's hard to keep up. But I think anything you can learn is a good thing no matter who you learn it from. In regards to our Presidents going to the Wippinger center.
 

I now have asked several times what is the fleets plan and how is this going to effect them.? If any Stores guys are reading this how is this going to effect your work group as well?
 

It looks to me like you have been directing your Q and A's towards me so I'm going to respond for myself and what "I" think.

First I'll start with the fact that my group is very different than yours. Our group doesn't require any level of education past High School. Sure we have people with all sorts of levels of education but for the most part, if you have a high School diploma you can get and do our jobs and in time become very proficient at it.

We've taken cuts absolutely and no one should forget that but what I feel the TWU has given me came from over 70 years of collective bargaining raising the bar. The bar was raised so much that even after the cuts I make $269.00 per week more than the average High School graduate. (Not even considering benefits) That's $1076.00 per month more than the average. I actually make more than the average American worker and more than those who've completed an Associates degree. $93.00 per week more than the average American and $143.00 more per week than the Associates. I'm also expecting a decent raise when the JCBA talks are concluded BTW.

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

Now by the way the Average Baggage Handler only makes $12.00 per hour in the US. I currently make $23.00. Yes maybe with time in my chosen career outside of a Union shop I would make more than $12.00 per hour but then again there is my High School friend Gus Econnomu who works at one of those non union companies in JFK handling bags and cargo. He's been with this company for 10 years and only makes $14.50 per hour. Crappy benefits too BTW but at least he does have some.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Baggage_Handler_%28Aviation%2fAirline%29/Hourly_Rate

So this is what I see when I think about the TWU. I really don't care all that much about who is in what position banging what pretty secretary over the desk in his office. That's just a bunch of guys who want a leather chair of some kind and they can have it all they want. You got plenty that support your group who want their own leather chair as well. Don't be naive about that my friend.

You asked what do I expect or what do I want out of the association? Well for one thing I want peace. I don't want to fight against Union Brothers and Sisters over what union is better and what union I'm more comfortable with or what I like. It's not about me, it's about all of us. You don't think these guys will learn to get along and learn that there are bigger issues out there than us. I think your all wrong. I think they will learn and find that common ground (Call me naive) 

Between the IAM and the TWU they have Fleet almost locked up in the industry. Still working on Delta and Jet Blue but I think they'll come in soon and they just got Spirit and Frontier so they're bringing in those LCC's. I think once that's all locked up we'll have much better bargaining power and this association is the perfect link in working together to coordinate our efforts. The US Airline industry has finished it's restructuring and it's in the best position it's been in since before Deregulation in 1978. So I expect gains finally off the backs of those who should be paying us, the passengers. Fares are going to rise along with labor costs. (Read the analysts and what they have to say)

You and I have a fundamental ideological difference. You want to go small while I want to grow huge. You don't like or trust as you call them the Industrial Unions. None of them. I just don't feel insulating and isolating yourself is the answer. It just feels like you want to go hide in the closet from the big cruel world that's out there that wants to punch you in the eye. You don't call your group elitists but you only want to represent your class and craft and no one else. And yes there is the APA and APFA but I think they should be part of a much larger group as well. And I'd be telling them the same thing as I'm saying here if they were looking to isolate themselves.

Look maybe you'll get your cards before you retire and maybe you won't? If you do I wish you and all the guys you work with good luck. But the truth is that AMFA used to be a lot bigger than they are today and they are only down to about 2000 members left. That may not tell you something but it does tell me something. I'm just not into the idea of going small. I don't think it's going to work for your class and craft at the end of the day? 



 

 

[WeAAsles]

Another thing. People are saying that the TWU would smoke the IAM in a representational battle if there was one. I don't know about District 142 but I do know that the members are VERY involved over at District 141. They just had a recent election for reps and the turnout was over 70 percent. 

To vote you actually have to go and travel to one of the polling spots. They had over 70 percent turnout even with getting off their duffs to have to go somewhere. We do our local ballots by mail and what is the turnout for that?

You guys really so sure you want to battle it out with these guys?

 

[iluvaa]

I don't always agree with much you say but that was a well thought out answer. Much better than Nyers I'm scared of a vote so I don't want one

 

[scorpion 2]

ivin
Well, the lie incorporates the Creditors Committee and Judge Lane, not to mention all the other Creditors who needed to approve the Equity. This conspiracy theory is running deep.......

Another post that avoids an answer. The 4.8% equity was approved by the court and the creditors committee and not a fraction more. There was no extra equity provided by the company to cover a me-too clause because like you said the court and creditors would have had to sign off on it. That didn't happen. The international will try to tell you that the pilots got a better deal so we got more equity but the truth is we got 4.8 to begin with and still had 4.8 after the pilots ratified their CBA 4 months later. Instead of getting another holiday or a vacation day or something actually substantive we got me-too equity which was nothing more than a relabeling of what we already had.

 

[700UW]

Good information on these links:
 
Just for you Missing in Action AMFA.
 
http://www.iamdl142.org/AMFA/AMFA%20Risk.pdf
 
http://www.iamdl142.org/AMFA/Rebuttal%20to%20AMFA%20response%20concerning%20IAM.pdf
 
http://www.iamdl142.org/AMFA/AMFA%20License%20Premium.pdf
 
How come in the past nine years AMFA hasnt been able to negotiate an increase in license pay at WN?
 
How come WN has only averaged a .73 cents raise per year over the past nine years at WN?
 
Why does AS pay $348.98 per month for an 80/20 plan under AMFA yet a mechanic at US under the IAM only pays $81.64 a month?

 

[700UW]

Stop changing the subject!

Go back to school and learn to comprehend what you read.
 
And pay off your bet to Kevin.

 

[MetalMover]

Another thing. People are saying that the TWU would smoke the IAM in a representational battle if there was one. I don't know about District 142 but I do know that the members are VERY involved over at District 141. They just had a recent election for reps and the turnout was over 70 percent. 

To vote you actually have to go and travel to one of the polling spots. They had over 70 percent turnout even with getting off their duffs to have to go somewhere. We do our local ballots by mail and what is the turnout for that?

You guys really so sure you want to battle it out with these guys?

One thing I could tell you is that as much as anti-TWU, pro AMFA mechanics want the TWU gone, just about every mechanic I have had this conversation with does NOT want the IAM. If there were an election between the TWU and the IAM, I would say that the TWU would SMOKE the IAM simply because of shear numbers. No way are we jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

 

[MetalMover]

It looks to me like you have been directing your Q and A's towards me so I'm going to respond for myself and what "I" think.

First I'll start with the fact that my group is very different than yours. Our group doesn't require any level of education past High School. Sure we have people with all sorts of levels of education but for the most part, if you have a high School diploma you can get and do our jobs and in time become very proficient at it.

We've taken cuts absolutely and no one should forget that but what I feel the TWU has given me came from over 70 years of collective bargaining raising the bar. The bar was raised so much that even after the cuts I make $269.00 per week more than the average High School graduate. (Not even considering benefits) That's $1076.00 per month more than the average. I actually make more than the average American worker and more than those who've completed an Associates degree. $93.00 per week more than the average American and $143.00 more per week than the Associates. I'm also expecting a decent raise when the JCBA talks are concluded BTW.

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

Now by the way the Average Baggage Handler only makes $12.00 per hour in the US. I currently make $23.00. Yes maybe with time in my chosen career outside of a Union shop I would make more than $12.00 per hour but then again there is my High School friend Gus Econnomu who works at one of those non union companies in JFK handling bags and cargo. He's been with this company for 10 years and only makes $14.50 per hour. Crappy benefits too BTW but at least he does have some.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Baggage_Handler_%28Aviation%2fAirline%29/Hourly_Rate

So this is what I see when I think about the TWU. I really don't care all that much about who is in what position banging what pretty secretary over the desk in his office. That's just a bunch of guys who want a leather chair of some kind and they can have it all they want. You got plenty that support your group who want their own leather chair as well. Don't be naive about that my friend.

You asked what do I expect or what do I want out of the association? Well for one thing I want peace. I don't want to fight against Union Brothers and Sisters over what union is better and what union I'm more comfortable with or what I like. It's not about me, it's about all of us. You don't think these guys will learn to get along and learn that there are bigger issues out there than us. I think your all wrong. I think they will learn and find that common ground (Call me naive) 

Between the IAM and the TWU they have Fleet almost locked up in the industry. Still working on Delta and Jet Blue but I think they'll come in soon and they just got Spirit and Frontier so they're bringing in those LCC's. I think once that's all locked up we'll have much better bargaining power and this association is the perfect link in working together to coordinate our efforts. The US Airline industry has finished it's restructuring and it's in the best position it's been in since before Deregulation in 1978. So I expect gains finally off the backs of those who should be paying us, the passengers. Fares are going to rise along with labor costs. (Read the analysts and what they have to say)

You and I have a fundamental ideological difference. You want to go small while I want to grow huge. You don't like or trust as you call them the Industrial Unions. None of them. I just don't feel insulating and isolating yourself is the answer. It just feels like you want to go hide in the closet from the big cruel world that's out there that wants to punch you in the eye. You don't call your group elitists but you only want to represent your class and craft and no one else. And yes there is the APA and APFA but I think they should be part of a much larger group as well. And I'd be telling them the same thing as I'm saying here if they were looking to isolate themselves.

Look maybe you'll get your cards before you retire and maybe you won't? If you do I wish you and all the guys you work with good luck. But the truth is that AMFA used to be a lot bigger than they are today and they are only down to about 2000 members left. That may not tell you something but it does tell me something. I'm just not into the idea of going small. I don't think it's going to work for your class and craft at the end of the day? 



 

So basically as a baggage handler, you are doing better than the average worker. I bet you're doing as good as, if not better than OTHER baggage handlers in the industry. To that I say good for you.
 
The same cannot be said for aircraft mechanics.