Gary Yingst Vote letter is incorrect.....go figure?

[MetalMover]

Better than keeping the arrogant POS TWU or the POS alliance.

 

[WeAAsles]

Better than keeping the arrogant POS TWU or the POS alliance.

And you wonder why there are some of us who would be more than happy if the NMB came to the decision that an election was not necessary?  I rest my case.

 

[MetalMover]

And you wonder why there are some of us who would be more than happy if the NMB came to the decision that an election was not necessary?  I rest my case.

Of course you would be happy.. you're quite happy with The Worthless Union.
Nothing like Democracy, eh WeAAsles? No election? That works for you?
There are many of us who want them OUT.
 
Do you get to vote on any international appointments? Did you get a say in their exorbant salaries?

 

[WeAAsles]

Of course you would be happy.. you're quite happy with The Worthless Union.
There are many of us who want them OUT.
 
Do you get to vote on any international appointments? Did you get a say in their exorbitant salaries?

I'm very happy being UNIONIZED. The issue we are discussing is putting into all of our hands the chance to no longer be so. What my contentment or lack thereof is for the TWU, the IAM or the Association is irrelevant to what we have been discussing.

But to answer your question somewhat, NO. I am not happy that there may be a choice put out there for all of us that may take myself being unionized away from me. I have ZERO interest in that decision being put out to any of us basically on a technicality of the law because we are entering a merger.

On your last sentence if you knew who I was and what I was a part of trying to see accomplished it would absolutely surprise you. It was a ridiculous long shot but at least I was involved in trying.

 

[MetalMover]

I'm very happy being UNIONIZED. The issue we are discussing is putting into all of our hands the chance to no longer be so. What my contentment or lack thereof for the TWU, the IAM or the Association is irrelevant to what we have been discussing.

But to answer your question somewhat, NO. I am not happy that there may be a choice put out there for all of us that may take myself being unionized away from me. I have ZERO interest in that decision being put out to any of us basically on a technicality of the law because we are entering a merger.

On your last sentence if you knew who I was and what I was a part of trying to see accomplished it would absolutely surprise you. It was a ridiculous long shot but at least I was involved in trying

This is my point, WeAAsles. the TWU has left such a bad long lasting impression on us, that we might consider non-union. Can you understand the anger many of us feel towards the TWU? many of  us really didn't want the IBT, but we wanted change. I was willing to vote for IBT or AMFA or whoever got the vote first..
Do you not understand the strong arming tactics by not just the TWU, but the TWU/IAM team by not having an election where they said when the alliance was announced that there WOULD be an election?
I have had enough.

 

[WeAAsles]

This is my point, WeAAsles. the TWU has left such a bad long lasting impression on us, that we might consider non-union. Can you understand the anger many of us feel towards the TWU? many of  us really didn't want the IBT, but we wanted change. I was willing to vote for IBT or AMFA or whoever got the vote first..
Do you not understand the strong arming tactics by not just the TWU, but the TWU/IAM team by not having an election where they said when the alliance was announced that there WOULD be an election?
I have had enough.

Metal I have tried to point out so many other forces that were against all of us besides what is your perception that the blame lay solely on the TWU. What more can I say if that is what you want to believe?

Has the TWU made mistakes throughout my career, yes. Could I defend every action that they've ever undertaken, no. But at the same time can I blame them for everything we've gone through? HELL NO!

Not everyone who has been in leadership positions within the TWU should be dining with Adolf in Hell. I've known a lot of good guys who have tried there damnedest to do the best they can. But at least on this site every single one of them has a great big bullseye on their backs.

Don't think I don't understand many of your points of view. I know quite a bit more about things then most out there do. I just wish you all would do a little more digging to find out the differences between who the good guys are and the bad guys. Every union and every society has both.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Metal I have tried to point out so many other forces that were against all of us besides what is your perception that the blame lay solely on the TWU. What more can I say if that is what you want to believe?

Has the TWU made mistakes throughout my career, yes. Could I defend every action that they've ever undertaken, no. But at the same time can I blame them for everything we've gone through? HELL NO!

Not everyone who has been in leadership positions within the TWU should be dining with Adolf in Hell. I've known a lot of good guys who have tried there damnedest to do the best they can. But at least on this site every single one of them has a great big bullseye on their backs.

Don't think I don't understand many of your points of view. I know quite a bit more about things then most out there do. I just wish you all would do a little more digging to find out the differences between who the good guys are and the bad guys. Every union and every society has both.

WeAAsles
 
I fully understand that the effect of having NO union is a possibility at this point and you for one DON't want that for your work group or ours. Ok I get that.
 
I see your point, But there are so many like yourself that have got into our fight and distorted the facts and have lead  many of our class and craft members to think opposite of what we have told them so it has made my job as an AMFA organizer harder.
 
If we went AMFA you would still be with the TWU or maybe with the Assoc. and still have a union. All we the mechanics want is our own choice. Having to go back and forth here on this site and on the floor with TWU supporters that have no dog in the fight is why so many of the AMFA supporters get the way they do when you and O/S and reality check and 700Uw and other poke your noses into this.
 
That is just some reasons why some mechanics would rather cut off their nose to spite their faces and vote NO union they are JUST FED UP WITH THE TWU> 

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles
 
I fully understand that the effect of having NO union is a possibility at this point and you for one DON't want that for your work group or ours. Ok I get that.
 
I see your point, But there are so many like yourself that have got into our fight and distorted the facts and have lead  many of our class and craft members to think opposite of what we have told them so it has made my job as an AMFA organizer harder.

I do not distort facts. It's just that to many facts are an inconvenience. That's the part about this that admittedly pisses me off. People who give facts on both sides are bashed for doing so because they don't fit the agenda. People are easily led but it's not fair just to lead them for something you want or think is best for them.
 
If we went AMFA you would still be with the TWU or maybe with the Assoc. and still have a union. All we the mechanics want is our own choice. Having to go back and forth here on this site and on the floor with TWU supporters that have no dog in the fight is why so many of the AMFA supporters get the way they do when you and O/S and reality check and 700Uw and other poke your noses into this.

Alright I can give you that some threads I maybe should stay out of? But look at the topic in this thread. It doesn't specify maintenance and for all I know could have plenty of my fellow clerks reading? So all your followers who constantly bash the TWU could be influencing my workgroup as well. And that for sure puts me right smack in the middle. 

As for O/S and Realityck they're more than likely mechanics too? 700UW has said that I believe it's his wife who's a mechanic or something? What are you saying, that they should just sit down and shut up? C'mon and give me a break. Would you do that? They have more than the right to debate the issue especially when it directly affects them.
 
That is just some reasons why some mechanics would rather cut off their nose to spite their faces and vote NO union they are JUST FED UP WITH THE TWU> 

At least you admitted that that would be cutting off there noses to spite their faces to vote no union. To me you might as well lop off my Johnson.

Tell you what. I'm more than willing to stay out of threads that are 100% specifically associated with your class and craft and can not be mistaken by anyone to be anything else. But your guys don't do that and you know it. They spread all over the place on this forum. Hell they even invaded a thread talking about the freakin stock price. If you can get them to show a little restraint then I will too. Do we have a deal?

Oh and get Chuck to at least admit that voting "no union" is possible career suicide. I asked him about that awhile back and he just walked off into the bushes whistling and kicking a rock.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Tell you what. I'm more than willing to stay out of threads that are 100% specifically associated with your class and craft and can not be mistaken by anyone to be anything else. But your guys don't do that and you know it. They spread all over the place on this forum. Hell they even invaded a thread talking about the freakin stock price. If you can get them to show a little restraint then I will too. Do we have a deal?

Oh and get Chuck to at least admit that voting "no union" is possible career suicide. I asked him about that awhile back and he just walked off into the bushes whistling and kicking a rock.

WeAAsles
 
As you look at the subject matter on this site that has to do with the TWU most if not all were started by AMT's. Its the hate of the TWU that mechanics have that drive these different views.
 
I've been here at AA for 16 yrs and NOT once have I heard a peep from the stores/ramp about removing the TWU never seen a card drive for another union either.
 
Its always been about maintenance wanting to leave the TWU. So How can we influence anyone in those class and craft sections of AA/US. When we say we don't care about which union you belong too it does not effect us one way or the other we get accused of being elitist.  Its the same for the pilots and F/A WE don't care who represents them either it does not effect us at all.
 
I can't control what others do only myself. What Chuck has to say or does is not for me to question that is on him. He has seen more of the TWU's failings than I. As far as the others go I am in Miami and don't know too many from here that I could influence to stay away from stores/ramp issues.
 
Start threads that are for the ramp/stores, if mechanics get in them ask them to stay out.  If you stay away from subjects about  maintenance. I think the mechanics will stay away from Ramp/stores issues.
 
When AMFA supporters are talking about the Association it's how it effect the mechanics. Both at USAir and AA. So when they say would rather have NO union its for us Not thinking that it would effect the other TWU work groups. so do you get it? Now

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles
 
As you look at the subject matter on this site that has to do with the TWU most if not all were started by AMT's. Its the hate of the TWU that mechanics have that drive these different views.

Whoever started the thread doesn't matter. It's the subject line that people are drawn to and many times it can be easily misconstrued to be coming from any TWU member in any workgroup.
 
I've been here at AA for 16 yrs and NOT once have I heard a peep from the stores/ramp about removing the TWU never seen a card drive for another union either.

And I have 19 years and you are correct for the most part except for Tim Nelson and his loopy "Allied Ground Worker" delusions that set him up as the crown prince.
 
Its always been about maintenance wanting to leave the TWU. So How can we influence anyone in those class and craft sections of AA/US. When we say we don't care about which union you belong too it does not effect us one way or the other we get accused of being elitist.  Its the same for the pilots and F/A WE don't care who represents them either it does not effect us at all.

We have just as many elitists working in Fleet too my friend. Trust me on that.
 
I can't control what others do only myself. What Chuck has to say or does is not for me to question that is on him. He has seen more of the TWU's failings than I. As far as the others go I am in Miami and don't know too many from here that I could influence to stay away from stores/ramp issues.

You're correct about not being able to control others. And in all honesty if you were the only poster or many others were like you I probably would be on this site a lot less. But unfortunately you're pretty unique on here. Stop by D12 sometime next week and we'll get a Starbucks?
 
Start threads that are for the ramp/stores, if mechanics get in them ask them to stay out.  If you stay away from subjects about  maintenance. I think the mechanics will stay away from Ramp/stores issues.

Sure OK. Then show me some more threads that are exclusively regarding maintenance? There's one on the US Airways board if you notice I haven't made one single comment on. That one is very specific about who it's for.
 
When AMFA supporters are talking about the Association it's how it effect the mechanics. Both at USAir and AA. So when they say would rather have NO union its for us Not thinking that it would effect the other TWU work groups. so do you get it? Now

I've always gotten it. But I know who you guys are and what your agenda is. Not all the readers know the players. Just don't want to see them walk over a cliff in there confusion. Sheep have been known to do that.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

[SIZE=10pt]August 9, 2014[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]To the Membership,[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Local 591 has received several phone calls regarding the vote for the “TWU/IAM Association.”  By now the membership should have seen the joint filing by TWU and IAM International’s, which speaks to their desire for the “Association.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Of critical concern however is the unfortunate misinformation provided in a “Shop Steward Training letter,” written by Local 514’s Vice President, Gary Yingst, and Executive Board Member David Corbit.  This letter has also been posted on the Local 514 website and both mischaracterizes, and is causing confusion on how the National Mediation Board (NMB) would conduct the vote, by stating:  “The Association vote will be the same as any representation vote if the Association isn’t voted in we would lose our current CBA.”  In addition, another rumor has surfaced that, “the NMB ballot will only have two options – either the “TWU/IAM Association” or “No Representation.”   Local 514’s letter and the rumors are not correct.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]The first step in the process is the NMB will grant a “single carrier” ruling.  Once the single carrier ruling is awarded, several timed events take place.  First, there will be a period for an intervener to apply to be on the ballot, after that their will be an NMB sanctioned election.  As confirmed by the NMB, at the very least, the following options will be on the NMB ballot: “TWU/IAM Association,” “No Representation,” and “Other” (where a member can write their choice for “Representation”) a named “Intervener” may also be placed onto the ballot if enough cards are submitted and accepted by the NMB.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]To avoid additional confusion, the combined total for the “TWU/IAM Association,” “Other,” and “Intervener” (if there are any on the ballot) votes will count as “votes cast for Representation.” Only those votes for “No Representation” will be counted for an “open shop” or becoming an “at will employee” as referenced in the Yingst/Corbit letter.  So, as long as the total number of “Bargaining Representative” votes exceeds the “No Representation” votes cast, we will continue working under our collective bargaining agreement until a “New, Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement” is negotiated.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Since many of our Local 591 members may have read or received a copy of the Local 514 letter, I believe it unconscionable to leave the record “uncorrected.” My main reason for this letter is not to politicize or polarize the membership, but rather to make sure that the membership understands they have options, but a vote cast for “No Representation” is not in any of our collective best interests.  I have been told that some members feel that voting for “No Representation in protest” will prove a point to TWU, but in reality it will only hurt us as a “collective body.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]In closing, if you choose not to vote for the “Association” that is your right, I would strongly urge that you utilize the “other” option and write in a vote for “Representation” on the ballot.  As I expressed earlier, so long as the total votes “for Representation - including the “Association,” “Other,” and an “Intervener” (if any are on the ballot), exceeds the number of votes for “No Representation,” we will remain a union shop.  The individual perils of having “No Representation” are far more painful then the current TWU and IAM contracts that provide members with critical items such as,  “Limits on Outsourcing and Scope, Just Cause for Discipline, Seniority Rights, and Work Rules for a fair and equitable distribution of Overtime and Field Trips;” which all become management rights “without Representation.”   Once again, I urge you to challenge anyone who is pushing for “No Representation,” by considering the facts and outcome when given the opportunity to vote “For Representation” over “No Representation.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]As this process continues, Local 591 will continue to provide further detailed fact based information.  We urge you to submit your questions about this election through your elected representatives or the “contact us” tab on the local591.com website.  Local 591 will get you the answers.  We also encourage you to become familiar with the NMB Rules and Representation Manual, and have provided the links to both below.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]http://www.nmb.gov/about-nmb/nmb-rules/[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]http://www.nmb.gov/documents/representation/representation-manual.pdf[/SIZE]

Download:
 NMB Election.pdf 

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

But to answer your question somewhat, NO. I am not happy that there may be a choice put out there for all of us that may take myself being unionized away from me. I have ZERO interest in that decision 

What are you afraid of? Are you one of those people that can't hold down a job without UNION protection? 
 

 I know quite a bit more about things then most out there do.

You and 700UW both. 

 

[700UW]

What are you afraid of? Are you one of those people that can't hold down a job without UNION protection? 
 
You and 700UW both. 

Must you stalk me in every posting?
 
Get a life there brother, you are gonna cause another thread to be locked.

 

[WeAAsles]

What are you afraid of? Are you one of those people that can't hold down a job without UNION protection? 
 

You and 700UW both.

I don't want the company to know how many people such as yourself that there are among our ranks. It would only go to prove how effective the company and there lobbyists have been in turning the sheep towards the cliff.

 

[chellow]

I believe you left out an additional possibility, if we vote down the "TWU/IAM Association" from a vote held by each respected union, the IAM and TWU may have to battle it out independently with a vote held by the NMB.
 

 

[SIZE=10pt]August 9, 2014[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]To the Membership,[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Local 591 has received several phone calls regarding the vote for the “TWU/IAM Association.”  By now the membership should have seen the joint filing by TWU and IAM International’s, which speaks to their desire for the “Association.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Of critical concern however is the unfortunate misinformation provided in a “Shop Steward Training letter,” written by Local 514’s Vice President, Gary Yingst, and Executive Board Member David Corbit.  This letter has also been posted on the Local 514 website and both mischaracterizes, and is causing confusion on how the National Mediation Board (NMB) would conduct the vote, by stating:  “The Association vote will be the same as any representation vote if the Association isn’t voted in we would lose our current CBA.”  In addition, another rumor has surfaced that, “the NMB ballot will only have two options – either the “TWU/IAM Association” or “No Representation.”   Local 514’s letter and the rumors are not correct.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]The first step in the process is the NMB will grant a “single carrier” ruling.  Once the single carrier ruling is awarded, several timed events take place.  First, there will be a period for an intervener to apply to be on the ballot, after that their will be an NMB sanctioned election.  As confirmed by the NMB, at the very least, the following options will be on the NMB ballot: “TWU/IAM Association,” “No Representation,” and “Other” (where a member can write their choice for “Representation”) a named “Intervener” may also be placed onto the ballot if enough cards are submitted and accepted by the NMB.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]To avoid additional confusion, the combined total for the “TWU/IAM Association,” “Other,” and “Intervener” (if there are any on the ballot) votes will count as “votes cast for Representation.” Only those votes for “No Representation” will be counted for an “open shop” or becoming an “at will employee” as referenced in the Yingst/Corbit letter.  So, as long as the total number of “Bargaining Representative” votes exceeds the “No Representation” votes cast, we will continue working under our collective bargaining agreement until a “New, Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement” is negotiated.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Since many of our Local 591 members may have read or received a copy of the Local 514 letter, I believe it unconscionable to leave the record “uncorrected.” My main reason for this letter is not to politicize or polarize the membership, but rather to make sure that the membership understands they have options, but a vote cast for “No Representation” is not in any of our collective best interests.  I have been told that some members feel that voting for “No Representation in protest” will prove a point to TWU, but in reality it will only hurt us as a “collective body.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]In closing, if you choose not to vote for the “Association” that is your right, I would strongly urge that you utilize the “other” option and write in a vote for “Representation” on the ballot.  As I expressed earlier, so long as the total votes “for Representation - including the “Association,” “Other,” and an “Intervener” (if any are on the ballot), exceeds the number of votes for “No Representation,” we will remain a union shop.  The individual perils of having “No Representation” are far more painful then the current TWU and IAM contracts that provide members with critical items such as,  “Limits on Outsourcing and Scope, Just Cause for Discipline, Seniority Rights, and Work Rules for a fair and equitable distribution of Overtime and Field Trips;” which all become management rights “without Representation.”   Once again, I urge you to challenge anyone who is pushing for “No Representation,” by considering the facts and outcome when given the opportunity to vote “For Representation” over “No Representation.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]As this process continues, Local 591 will continue to provide further detailed fact based information.  We urge you to submit your questions about this election through your elected representatives or the “contact us” tab on the local591.com website.  Local 591 will get you the answers.  We also encourage you to become familiar with the NMB Rules and Representation Manual, and have provided the links to both below.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]http://www.nmb.gov/about-nmb/nmb-rules/[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]http://www.nmb.gov/documents/representation/representation-manual.pdf[/SIZE]

Download:
 NMB Election.pdf