TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[737823]

Lets see what is better 100% of billable hours or 50% of billable hours of ONLY Heavy Maintenance Visits?
 
What is better 50% of heavy maintenance billable hours or 35% of THE WHOLE Maintenance budget with provisions for PMAA to exceed that amount?
 
Please show the board specific examples of what was given away as you say in the 2008 transition agreement to achieve that scope?
 
(Hint you will be looking for a long time as you are spreading misinformation once again.)
 
Stick with the facts, and back it up and refute the reality and facts of what really transpired.
 
You are nothing more than the master of misinformation, everything I have posted today is backed up by the truth and in writing in the former HP/IBT M&R CBA, the 2005 and 2008 IAM/US CBA and the current TWU M&R CBA.
 
Nothing but the facts.

Let's see you left in 2005 (so you say) this is of no consequence to you why do you keep posting about the past? Both the IAM and TWU CBAs suck everyone gets it. Unlike the IAM the TWU membership removed Bobby Gless and Don Videtich can't say the same about the IAM. You said before Roach sold M&R out but yet he is still there. So is Sito. So is Buffy and the GLRs, AGCs and District officials. And if 50% is so great how do you rationalize all the jobs lost? The IAM failed them plain and simple. Why did utility get farmed out?

Josh

 

[700UW]

Like I said refute what I posted and back up your claims this is the second time I have asked you and yet you keep failing to do so.

Roach is no longer GVP of Transportation.

Strike two joshie.

And all the General Chairman from 2005 and 2008 are all retired.

Strike three joshie.

The 46% of the jobs that were eliminated were due to the 2005 contract abrogation.

Why do you keep posting misinformation, why do you keep deflecting and changing when you can't refute the facts?

 

[737823]

Correct Roach is no longer GVP has advanced to the number two rank as GST. Why did they allow someone who sold out M&R (your words) to climb up?

Josh

 

[700UW]

Third time refute my posts and back up your claims.

Admit you are wrong since this is the third time and yet no facts and no refute by you

 

[TWU informer]

Just heard that at the 514 stewards meeting yesterday the TWU/IAM are going to start joint talks without an NMB ruling.

 
There is your answer. Beg management for an agreement.
Then vote on the alliance.

 

[NYer]

Another post that avoids an answer. The 4.8% equity was approved by the court and the creditors committee and not a fraction more. There was no extra equity provided by the company to cover a me-too clause because like you said the court and creditors would have had to sign off on it. That didn't happen. The international will try to tell you that the pilots got a better deal so we got more equity but the truth is we got 4.8 to begin with and still had 4.8 after the pilots ratified their CBA 4 months later. Instead of getting another holiday or a vacation day or something actually substantive we got me-too equity which was nothing more than a relabeling of what we already had.

 
1.7% of the total 4.8% was result of the Me Too clause....The pilot CBA ratification had nothing to do with it since all unions needed to give 17% of the value of their contracts, instead of the original 20%.

 

[NYer]

 
 
Yeah you're funny...not.
 
As for you Karl Marx like comment what the union can do and who for.  It has been very evident to the line AMTs, who the TWU is against.
 
Nobody is against some mechanism that allows people back on the job - Just depends on what was asked for in exchange.  The majority of us are tired of the TWU writing checks against AMT pay and benefits for their political gain.
 
As much as we pay in dues, you would think the International parasites would be able to cobble something together for these displaced workers you speak of.  BTW how many actually would currently benefit from this preferential hiring program?

 
Well, you brought it up. What was asked in exchange? Enlighten us.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 

BTW knock down what I get paid and there might be more for you as well? It's ok I'm not a part of a Class and Craft really. I'm a part of a group.

 

Why not? The TWU knocked down AMT pay and benefits in 2003 so Fleet wouldn't have to give up as much. AMT lost 17.5% pay + Sick Time Pay + Longevity Pay + Vacation and holidays. Fleet lost 15% pay, kept longevity, kept Sick Time Pay and lost the same week vacation and holidays that AMTs did. So AMTs lost an extra 2.5% pay plus longevity and sick time pay. Is this how unions are supposed to work in your mind? Take more from one group so the others don't have to? This is why I want out of the TWU. In my opinion no other group should have gotten a single thing until the AMTs were restored the 2.5% and Sick Time Pay and Longevity Pay. But you would have screamed bloody murder wouldn't you? It's ok to screw the AMTs more when the givebacks come, but you better get yours when the raises come right? I refuse to be loyal to a union that treats me like a second class citizen. We are and have been the lowest paid AMTs in the entire airline industry for many years. Fleet at AA has not been even close to the bottom even after 2003. If I were in Fleet I would be ashamed that I condone the unfair treatment of my union "Brothers" the AMTs. But obviously we are only "Brothers" when it benefits you. It is plain that the only way that the AA AMTs can improve our pay and benefits is to leave the TWU who continues to force inferior benefits and unfair pay cuts on us while preserving these for the other groups. You have and continue to enjoy benefits that I and all other AMTs no longer have due to the unfair proportions of givebacks dictated by the TWU. I have said before that Fleet never said a word about the unfair treatment of the AMTs. That's fine, but don't jump in now and try to knock us for trying to get away from the TWU. You didn't care when they screwed us so you shouldn't care now. And if you don't care then quit making comments about it. You are happy with the TWU which means you are ok with them screwing the AMTs. This is part of the problem between Fleet and AMTs. We should not have less benefits than you do, but you don't ever bring that up do you? The more you tout the advantages of the TWU or the IAM or the alliance you prove you are a hypocrite. No union should discriminate against any other group. But it's fine with you as long as it's not your group.

 

[Rogallo]

 I don't know what to expect anymore.

 
Lower, right Bobby?

 

[Vortilon]

   

Why not? The TWU knocked down AMT pay and benefits in 2003 so Fleet wouldn't have to give up as much. AMT lost 17.5% pay + Sick Time Pay + Longevity Pay + Vacation and holidays. Fleet lost 15% pay, kept longevity, kept Sick Time Pay and lost the same week vacation and holidays that AMTs did. So AMTs lost an extra 2.5% pay plus longevity and sick time pay. Is this how unions are supposed to work in your mind? Take more from one group so the others don't have to? This is why I want out of the TWU. In my opinion no other group should have gotten a single thing until the AMTs were restored the 2.5% and Sick Time Pay and Longevity Pay. But you would have screamed bloody murder wouldn't you? It's ok to screw the AMTs more when the givebacks come, but you better get yours when the raises come right? I refuse to be loyal to a union that treats me like a second class citizen. We are and have been the lowest paid AMTs in the entire airline industry for many years. Fleet at AA has not been even close to the bottom even after 2003. If I were in Fleet I would be ashamed that I condone the unfair treatment of my union "Brothers" the AMTs. But obviously we are only "Brothers" when it benefits you. It is plain that the only way that the AA AMTs can improve our pay and benefits is to leave the TWU who continues to force inferior benefits and unfair pay cuts on us while preserving these for the other groups. You have and continue to enjoy benefits that I and all other AMTs no longer have due to the unfair proportions of givebacks dictated by the TWU. I have said before that Fleet never said a word about the unfair treatment of the AMTs. That's fine, but don't jump in now and try to knock us for trying to get away from the TWU. You didn't care when they screwed us so you shouldn't care now. And if you don't care then quit making comments about it. You are happy with the TWU which means you are ok with them screwing the AMTs. This is part of the problem between Fleet and AMTs. We should not have less benefits than you do, but you don't ever bring that up do you? The more you tout the advantages of the TWU or the IAM or the alliance you prove you are a hypocrite. No union should discriminate against any other group. But it's fine with you as long as it's not your group.

 
Very well said....

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 
Very well said....

Thank you. 

 

[TRAVIS]

Your beloved IBT at HP let Franke layoff almost all the mechanics, farmout all of heavy maintenance and was almost shutdown by the FAA for lack of oversight in maintenance.
 
 BILL FRANKE DID LAYOFF ALL MOST ALL THE MECHANICS, BLACK FRIDAY AS WE CALL IT AND JUST WEEKS FROM CHRISTMAS.)
IT WAS ALMOST A YEAR TO THE DAY AFTER BLACK FRIDAY WHEN WE VOTED IN THE IBT(OVER 90% VOTED YES) SO HERE YOU START WITH YOUR BS LIES .
THE OVERSIGHTS YOU MENTION WERE FROM VENDORS THE COMPANY WAS USING TO FARM OUR CHECKS OUT TO AS WE HAD NO CONTROL OVER WHAT WAS DONE.
THE IBT BROUGHT BACK LOTS OF WORK BACK IN HOUSE DUE TO A CLAUSE IN OUR CONTRACT THAT SAID IF WE DID WORK THAT WAS FARMED OUT THEN THAT WORK WAS TO RETURN BACK INHOUSE AND STAY IN HOUSE. 
 
In 2005 the Judge abrogated the IAM/US CBA and let the company farmout whatever they want.
 
THE IAM FAILED THE MEMBERS BIG DIFFERENCE WITH AWA WE WERE NON-UNION WHEN BILL FRANKE FARMED OUT THE HANGER.
 
In 2008 in the Transition agreement the IAM was successful in only letting the company farmout 50% of billable hours of HMV.
 
THE IAM SOLD US OUT TOO PUT THAT BS IAMNPF IN PLACE AND THAT IS A FACT BONE HEAD. 
 
I know it might be hard for you to grasp what has happened and what has been gained.
 
​I'm NOT THE ONE LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD.
 
At AA they can farmout out 35% of ALL of the maintenance budget, cant do that at US.
 
THE TWU FAILED IT'S MEMBERS.
 
AA can farmout line maintenance and anything else they want, cant happen at US.
 
AGAIN THE TWU FAILED IT'S MEMBERS.
 
So be blinded and just ignore the reality that US filed chapter 11 twice within two years.
HP and the IBT was the BOTTOM of the airlines in wages and scope in maintenance.
 
 AT THE START OF THE MERGER AND UP TO THE TA AWA WAS MAKING MORE MONEY THAN THE USAIR AMT'S AND HAD FULL SICK PAY MORE PAID TIME OFF HOLIDAYS WITH A 401K MATCH AND CHEAPER INSURANCE BY FAR.
 
Go ask the GSE mechanics at HP the nice raise they got under the transition agreement of 2008.
 
BUT WHAT DID THE IAM DO FOR THE AMT'S OR DO I NEED TO SPEND A WEEKEND STUDYING FOR MY ASE TEST TO GET A NICE RAISE!  
 
Go read the IAM/CBA that makes the company keep PHX hangar open along with PIT and CLT.
 
ASK THE PIT BOYS IN A YEAR!
 
And are you in the top 4,000 of mechanics at the New AA?
 
COOL BY LAW.
 
Dont ask for something that might show you out the door.
 
I DIDN'T ASK THE IAM TO FAIL! ALL I WANTED IS FOR THEM TO DO WHAT I PAY THEM FOR AND THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE.... 
 
The most important thing in any CBA is scope language they can pay you $50 an hour, but 10,000 of your fellow mechanic and related, maybe even including you will be shown the door, but you should be use to it if you were at HP under Franke.
 
SCOPE IS IMPORTANT BUT SO IS PAYING A PROFESSIONAL MECHANIC A FAIR WAGE FOR HIS PROFESSIONAL LICENSE.
I HAVE SAID THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN IF YOU WANT TO MAKE WHAT A AMT MECHANIC MAKES THEN GET OFF YOU A$$ AND GET YOUR OWN A&P LICENSE AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE LONGER THAN A WEEKEND. 

JUST MORE IAM BS AND TWIST OF THE TRUTH TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR THE IAM FAILURE TO ITS MEMBERS. 

 

[blue collar]

Good information on these links:
 
Just for you Missing in Action AMFA.
 
http://www.iamdl142.org/AMFA/AMFA%20Risk.pdf
 
http://www.iamdl142.org/AMFA/Rebuttal%20to%20AMFA%20response%20concerning%20IAM.pdf
 
http://www.iamdl142.org/AMFA/AMFA%20License%20Premium.pdf
 
How come in the past nine years AMFA hasnt been able to negotiate an increase in license pay at WN?
 
How come WN has only averaged a .73 cents raise per year over the past nine years at WN?
 
Why does AS pay $348.98 per month for an 80/20 plan under AMFA yet a mechanic at US under the IAM only pays $81.64 a month?

Your Union is trying to use percentages to make their argument appear better. Really, a 79% better negotiated raise and they're STILL at the bottom!? THATS what people look at, not the percent. That's the same argument WT uses to say how DL mechanics have it better off than anyone.

 

[WeAAsles]

   

Why not? The TWU knocked down AMT pay and benefits in 2003 so Fleet wouldn't have to give up as much. AMT lost 17.5% pay + Sick Time Pay + Longevity Pay + Vacation and holidays. Fleet lost 15% pay, kept longevity, kept Sick Time Pay and lost the same week vacation and holidays that AMTs did. So AMTs lost an extra 2.5% pay plus longevity and sick time pay. Is this how unions are supposed to work in your mind? Take more from one group so the others don't have to? This is why I want out of the TWU. In my opinion no other group should have gotten a single thing until the AMTs were restored the 2.5% and Sick Time Pay and Longevity Pay. But you would have screamed bloody murder wouldn't you? It's ok to screw the AMTs more when the givebacks come, but you better get yours when the raises come right? I refuse to be loyal to a union that treats me like a second class citizen. We are and have been the lowest paid AMTs in the entire airline industry for many years. Fleet at AA has not been even close to the bottom even after 2003. If I were in Fleet I would be ashamed that I condone the unfair treatment of my union "Brothers" the AMTs. But obviously we are only "Brothers" when it benefits you. It is plain that the only way that the AA AMTs can improve our pay and benefits is to leave the TWU who continues to force inferior benefits and unfair pay cuts on us while preserving these for the other groups. You have and continue to enjoy benefits that I and all other AMTs no longer have due to the unfair proportions of givebacks dictated by the TWU. I have said before that Fleet never said a word about the unfair treatment of the AMTs. That's fine, but don't jump in now and try to knock us for trying to get away from the TWU. You didn't care when they screwed us so you shouldn't care now. And if you don't care then quit making comments about it. You are happy with the TWU which means you are ok with them screwing the AMTs. This is part of the problem between Fleet and AMTs. We should not have less benefits than you do, but you don't ever bring that up do you? The more you tout the advantages of the TWU or the IAM or the alliance you prove you are a hypocrite. No union should discriminate against any other group. But it's fine with you as long as it's not your group.

I'm sorry but no, in 2003 I was not thinking about what anyone else was getting in cuts except myself. Kind of hard to think about someone else when you've been laid off to another station, forced to live with 3 other co-workers who drank too much for my tastes, being forced to sell my home and take a loss on what I paid for it and being separated from my wife that eventually led to a divorce. Next time I'll try to think about you instead of my own selfish needs.

Besides prove to me that your cuts by percentage to your total compensation among your workgroup were greater than mine? If they were then you are right and that's not fair. But now show me the proof? 

"But it's fine with you as long as it's not your group"

Wrong guy Jack. Go stare into your own mirror.

 

[scorpion 2]

I'm sorry but no, in 2003 I was not thinking about what anyone else was getting in cuts except myself. Kind of hard to think about someone else when you've been laid off to another station, forced to live with 3 other co-workers who drank too much for my tastes, being forced to sell my home and take a loss on what I paid for it and being separated from my wife that eventually led to a divorce. Next time I'll try to think about you instead of my own selfish needs.

Besides prove to me that your cuts by percentage to your total compensation among your workgroup were greater than mine? If they were then you are right and that's not fair. But now show me the proof? 

"But it's fine with you as long as it's not your group"

Wrong guy Jack. Go stare into your own mirror.

Did your dog run away too?