TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[MetalMover]

I'd just like to know if so many people hated it so much why have you all stuck around for 31 years now?

1983 was 31 years ago.

We tried but the TWU added dead and retired people as eligible voters.

 

[NYer]

MetalMover, Vortilion
 
WeAAsles heard all this over and over the reasons we want to be control of our class and craft.
 
he supports the TWU and that is his choice. He also supports being union, which we all can agree is needed here at AA.
 
To explain to him is just wasted time. The strength in numbers of the TWU/IAM or any other union is what he believes. 
 
We all just need to ask our fellow mechanics to get one card from the title 2 guys and the Tulsa non signers and that will push us over the TOP. Then if we do get a chance to submit the cards if the NMB does not find in favor of this association and block us we will at that point have the numbers to Finally Bring this to a VOTE. --Been trying for a decade with no success. At least you can count on the law of averages coming your way, eventually.
 
We all know that the TWU has favored one Group over another to insure they stayed in the Good Graces of AA. From the extra yr to get vested in the 1991 contract to the 5&5 of the 1995 contract to the screwing we took without a snap back clause in the 2003 contract. We know that we got a big raise due to the fight the AMFA guys did at NWA. --So that we're perfectly clear. We got a raise because AMFA and the NWA mechanics went on strike even though they were replaced and the 500 that were brought back did so under the terms of NWA. Really.
 
We now need to insure that there is no wedge between Tulsa's O/H base and the Line.
They are part of our class and craft and we just need to support them as we want them to support US. Show them and remind them of all the Times the TWU over the yrs has scammed us all.
 
The NMB is doing us a favor by this delay giving us time to collect cards. --A decade, you need more time?
 
Lets not squander this time by infighting, its time to get one card from someone who hasn't signed for the rest of the month. --By definition, "grass roots" efforts to bring another union onto the floor is infighting.
 
AMFA at AA in 2014. ...or 2015, 2016, 2017....eventually?

 

[FWAAA]

I have been around since the 1970's and turned down the first job offering by AA since it was a slap in the face. $ 9.50 to start and 12 yrs to top of the pay scale. I made more when I hired on at EAL my second carrier.

Wait a minute.   You turned down $9.50/hr in "the 1970's" at AA because it was too low?

$9.50/hr in 1977 (you didn't specify exactly when) is equivalent to $37.30/hr today (factoring in the inflation since 1977).   The pay was a lot better then than it is today.   AA was offering you the equivalent of today's top of scale as a starting wage.  

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
The "grass roots" have failed...over and over.
 
I'm glad the mechanics from NWA are "glad," unfortunately they lost their jobs and it was a miscalculation on the part of their leadership. You can try to "pretty it up," but they still allowed lower costs at that airline at the time.
 
There has been no success at AMFA that would cause a "grass roots" effort to grab a hold of the majority and win an election. You guys try to make the argument that the TWU, IAM and everyone else sucks so we need to grab the least effective representation in the industry just because we can fire them.
 
I'd rather make a change knowing I will be moving forward and my family will be moving up with me. We're too old to make a point and lose our jobs for a "cause" like the hearty folks at NWA.

 
NYer
 
if AA was going to put you or any else out they would of done it with the BK.
 
Its not that we can VOTE them out its that we don't have to accept the BS anymore WE can Hold them accountable.
 
The union is Supposed to work for US Not the other way around.
 
Just How many of your Union officials even show up to work? How many are off scamming? How many say "MY scam protect Yours" ?.
 
If we get AMFA and FAIL then all of YOU can say "WE TOLD YOU SO" and then Laugh at us.
 
But as Union people or you should be then support what we wish for ourselves and lets get a VOTE to see if the TWU or this Association survives.

 

[NYer]

That's only one reason. The divide and conquer tactics that have driven a wedge between line and OH is another. But what has been in place was TUL's "roll call" vote. Whatever TUL wanted TUL got. But that changed somewhat, hasn't it?  It will change further as OH numbers decrease while the line's numbers increase. You do realize they are hiring line mechanics throughout the system, don't you? I bet that "roll call" vote doesn't look all that good now.
Was the TWU NOT the first to introduce the B scale? Mechanic work transferred to fleet service?
 
You can keep quoting about the loss of AMFA numbers all you want. Many of us still want change.
I think that the main reason for those TWU supporters being anti-AMFA is their alleged apathy for those who work OH and OH work in general. 

 
I guess a vote is not good if it goes against you.
 
Correct, many want change and it seems many more don't.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Wait a minute.   You turned down $9.50/hr in "the 1970's" at AA because it was too low?

$9.50/hr in 1977 (you didn't specify exactly when) is equivalent to $37.30/hr today (factoring in the inflation since 1977).   The pay was a lot better then than it is today.   AA was offering you the equivalent of today's top of scale as a starting wage.  

 
Wrong I was making over $20.00 with Eastern when we walked. I had 10yrs. I started at EAL making more. My first interview was 1989 with AA.They offered that money then not 1977.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
WeAAsles 
 
I see your back to trying to get an A&P to down talk the fleet guys in hopes of calling the mechanics elitist again.

No. I'm just saying out loud what others have said and even you agreed with me that many think that way.
 
You have had this discussion before why do you need to rehash it again and again?
 
If we leave the TWU and or the IAM/TWU association what does it do to you?
 
What does the mechanics getting a union they want due to hurt the Fleet guys?

Absolutely nothing. To be honest I really believe we'd ultimately gain more work if you did go to AMFA. They're just way too small to be able to put up the fight and they have no backing. NWA proves it man. Don't ignore that reality. 
 
You support unions then why Bash AMFA?

I don't want to bash them but you can't expect to open a mom and pop hardware store across from Home Depot and not expect them to do everything to put you out of business. That's reality.  
 
We have separate Locals now even though that was a scam by the TWU, since we still had the SAME Intl. reps doing the Negotiations. So How does the fact that if we get AMFA here hurt the fleet guys? We will get a Local back in MIA, that Local will be
Local 6. Isn't that a positive for us as Union people?

Too many locals means too many individual wants and needs to ever get anything accomplished in negotiations. A bunch of guys all tripping over themselves. Jeez everyone needs there own leather chair these days.
 
We Want a VOTE, what is SO hard for you and other to understand. I wish you all the best and you can support the Association. Maybe it will work for the Fleet and others represented by the IAM. We DON"T WANT IT AT ALL>>>>>>>>>

If the WE is absolutely true then you'll have the cards when the time comes and you'll vote in your choice and I personally will wish you the best. I really will.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
I guess a vote is not good if it goes against you.
 
Correct, many want change and it seems many more don't.

If we get a vote and the TWU wins then you and all the other can Gloat and laugh at the foolish mechanics.
 
 Hows that?
 
 Just give us the VOTE......

 

[NYer]

 
NYer
 
if AA was going to put you or any else out they would of done it with the BK.
 
Its not that we can VOTE them out its that we don't have to accept the BS anymore WE can Hold them accountable.
 
The union is Supposed to work for US Not the other way around.
 
Just How many of your Union officials even show up to work? How many are off scamming? How many say "MY scam protect Yours" ?.
 
If we get AMFA and FAIL then all of YOU can say "WE TOLD YOU SO" and then Laugh at us.
 
But as Union people or you should be then support what we wish for ourselves and lets get a VOTE to see if the TWU or this Association survives.

 
Likewise, as Union people you should support the wish of the majority which is not to go AMFA. However, that's not the way to go is it. Those that don't agree with the AMFA movement are called names. The Brotherhood is only good for what the minority wants which is a change to an unsuccessful alternative....an organization that has been around since 1964 and has still not provided an industry change even though they represented tens of thousands. The AMFA experiment is down to 2000 members nationwide and a large number of mechanics have tasted those waters and decided to go elsewhere for representation. It seems clear I don't need to taste that water to know it doesn't taste as good as it looks to some.

 

[NYer]

If we get a vote and the TWU wins then you and all the other can Gloat and laugh at the foolish mechanics.
 
 Hows that?
 
 Just give us the VOTE......

 
Give you a vote?....get enough cards and force a vote....How's that? You want the change not the majority.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
WeAAsles most of the mechanics haven't, just hung around, most have worked at several carriers and like myself seen and discussed the failure of the TWU and what it did to the industry.
 
I have been around since the 1970's and turned down the first job offering by AA since it was a slap in the face. $ 9.50 to start and 12 yrs to top of the pay scale. I made more when I hired on at EAL my second carrier.

So if the TWU is so incredibly bad and has been for such along time why haven't they been dumped 31 years ago?

I don't care what the rules or obstacles were in front of you. If it was so bad it would have happened and nothing could have stopped it.

 

[NYer]

 
NYer
 
if AA was going to put you or any else out they would of done it with the BK.
 
Its not that we can VOTE them out its that we don't have to accept the BS anymore WE can Hold them accountable.
 
The union is Supposed to work for US Not the other way around.
 
Just How many of your Union officials even show up to work? How many are off scamming? How many say "MY scam protect Yours" ?.
 
If we get AMFA and FAIL then all of YOU can say "WE TOLD YOU SO" and then Laugh at us. --That doesn't do anything to help anyone. The majority doesn't want change and there hasn't been enough of a swell in the last decade to warrant an election. That's how it works. If you get enough cards and enough people vote then we make the change. Until then....
 
But as Union people or you should be then support what we wish for ourselves and lets get a VOTE to see if the TWU or this Association survives.

 

[FWAAA]

Wrong I was making over $20.00 with Eastern when we walked. I had 10yrs. I started at EAL making more. My first interview was 1989 with AA.They offered that money then not 1977.

My apologies.   $9.50/hr in 1989 is vastly different from $9.50/hr in the 1970s.   Nevertheless, today's top of scale at AA is shameful compared to nonunion B6 and DL, not to mention represented WN and UPS.    The TWU has by all measures failed you.   

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 

 
WeAAsles 
 
I see your back to trying to get an A&P to down talk the fleet guys in hopes of calling the mechanics elitist again.

No. I'm just saying out loud what others have said and even you agreed with me that many think that way.
 
You have had this discussion before why do you need to rehash it again and again?
 
If we leave the TWU and or the IAM/TWU association what does it do to you?
 
What does the mechanics getting a union they want due to hurt the Fleet guys?

Absolutely nothing. To be honest I really believe we'd ultimately gain more work if you did go to AMFA. They're just way too small to be able to put up the fight and they have no backing. NWA proves it man. Don't ignore that reality.  If we join then they would not be so small would they? Now that a reality.........
 
You support unions then why Bash AMFA?

I don't want to bash them but you can't expect to open a mom and pop hardware store across from Home Depot and not expect them to do everything to put you out of business. That's reality.  The amount of Union dues we the mechanics class and craft would give to the AMFA is in excess of $7.00 MIl a yr. I say that would be enough.
 
We have separate Locals now even though that was a scam by the TWU, since we still had the SAME Intl. reps doing the Negotiations. So How does the fact that if we get AMFA here hurt the fleet guys? We will get a Local back in MIA, that Local will be
Local 6. Isn't that a positive for us as Union people?

Too many locals means too many individual wants and needs to ever get anything accomplished in negotiations. A bunch of guys all tripping over themselves. Jeez everyone needs there own leather chair these days. We had our own Locals with the TWU was that a waste?
 
We Want a VOTE, what is SO hard for you and other to understand. I wish you all the best and you can support the Association. Maybe it will work for the Fleet and others represented by the IAM. We DON"T WANT IT AT ALL>>>>>>>>>

If the WE is absolutely true then you'll have the cards when the time comes and you'll vote in your choice and I personally will wish you the best. I really will.

 

 

[MetalMover]

 
I guess a vote is not good if it goes against you.
 
Correct, many want change and it seems many more don't.

As a minority with no chance in hell at the time? you're damn right! The TWU at that time had one use only for mechanics....UNION DUES and work that could be taken from us and given to the masses.
 
 
Are you afraid of an AMFA vote? If not, then you should be advocating a vote so you could gloat and say "I told you so."